Instant flirting screams “I just want to get in your pants” – massive turn off for many women. I suppose you just don’t get some things. Little wonder you ended up in the Manosphere so long…
What are you on about? You’re getting it about 50%. Not bad for you. The whole point is you’re going to get to know them – duuuur?
If the guy is boring as hell… neither you nor I can help him. Flirting right away and potentially coming off as a lewd creep isn’t going to fix anything – except make it clear that he’s thirsty to get some action. Don’t forget – I operated under the assumption that these guys have been doing what they can to have more attractive lifestyles and be more attractive guys BEFORE they go and try to meet women. Encouraging a buffoon to interact with women is pointless. A flirty buffoon is still a buffoon.

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You don't have the social aptitude to pull it off. You're the guy that said you would open girls with this.Both of these things scream that you don't know how to be normal and is practically begging for a girl to find you interesting. It's not a surprise that your idea of flirting would scream "I just want to get in your pants" and I believe that if YOU flirted with a woman it really would be a massive turn off because you couldn't pull it off. Guys like you need to be friendly and hope for the best because you don't have the social skill to not come across as weird if you did open a girl and flirt at the same time.

At some point, you'll realize that flirting is a way to let a woman know that you find a woman attractive without being aggressive about it. If you are charming enough, which may require some social calibration, a woman that may not be instantly attracted to you will still join in on the flirtation that you've started. It's really not that difficult if you know what you're doing and anyone can do it with a little practice.

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How desperate do you have to get to dig up stuff from another thread?
Hahahahha. Jack, who are you kidding here? You obviously don’t get this, and that’s understandable, because all you had was text to go off of, but I make people laugh so hard they spit their drink out if they’re having one. The other day I found out a girl I know has clinical depression, she’s seriously moody all the time, and she still finds me funny. Back on point: both lines would get a mild humorous response (simple exaggeration-based humor) – this is basic stuff. That, plus you claimed that she smiled when she saw me/whoever – which already means to me that she likes what she sees, making those lines even more effective. It’s OK – you don’t have to get it.
Oh, so now you’re elaborating? That’s good progress. Usually you just bitch and moan at guys that post here about “just not flirting enough” which isn’t very helpful. How’s everyone finding that eluside flirting-mega-thread that you wrote on the subject? And return-flirtation (“having fun”) means shit about her attraction to you – which is what you really want. I do agree about starting subtle, I suppose that’s a no-brainer.
On a general note: I’ll tell you the best advice I ever saw regarding flirting – especially during early stages of an interaction with someone you just met. You flirt with your eyes and body language (including touch) and speak normally. “Bedroom” eyes? It’s sexy eye contact. I don’t know if you can even teach someone this…

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"Please believe me. I'm funny." That shit wasn't funny. It was corny. The fact that you would try to use a person with a mental disorder as proof is kind of weird...but with your corny jokes and bad advice, we all pretty much should expect that from you. Contrary to what you believe, just because a woman smiles at you doesn't necessarily mean that she likes what she sees. Wake your wife up right now and ask her when she smiles at a guy does it mean that she likes what she sees?Bitch and moan? The only person that bitches and moans about flirting is you. You constantly complain if it's brought up. You'll add it to the list of things as if it's a foreign concept. "What is pick-up?", "What is flirting?", "What is a friend?".
On your general note: This is just another reason why it's obvious that you don't know what you're doing. I say flirt with a woman when you meet her and your mind goes straight to "bedroom" eyes. It's no wonder that you think a guy that flirts with a woman when he first meets her would scream that he wants to get into her pants. There's a reason that you believe what you do when it comes to your advice because if you tried to do pickup, you would be the equivalent of a bull in a china shop. Everything that you describe in a pickup perspective when you try to demonstrate your understanding is heavy handed. It's no wonder that you have so many issues when guys talk about this stuff. It's hard to grasp things that you are not accustomed to doing and can't conceptualize in your mind.

I know that you need the attention...that's why you're here. You've been posting here for the last few days and everything is fine and we're all getting along and then all of a sudden you dig up a thread that was dead for a couple of weeks just so you can argue with somebody.

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Evidently corny can be funny, too? Lighten up, Mr. “Fun Flirt”. You’re starting to contradict yourself big time. A smile doesn’t guarantee she likes you, but I’m willing to wager it means more than her completely ignoring you. You can disagree, I don’t care. I never in the past overthought my first words to a girl I didn’t know because they won’t dictate outcomes anyway – and I’d have taken my chance at making her giggle. I know what worked for me.
Indeed, touch and eye contact have been part of my flirting repertoire – and that of many others. If you don’t get that you really have no clue how to flirt at all, the irony of which is killing me, by the way. Evidently, you think there’s just one or two ways to make things work. Too bad that’s not the case at all.
At the end of the day, I didn’t buy 99% of the PUA community crap back in the day to improve myself. I figured it out on my own, did it my own way, and had girlfriends in high school (before I knew what the PUA non-sense was)… then some casual stuff around college – and then I found a keeper. I know what my method gets. And it’s one of the many that work, not some one or two way bullshit dogma you spew around here (implicitly).

Ah yes – and the semantics questions. Oh, the semantics. Indeed, all those terms above will need specific working definitions before anyone really understands what’s going on. Terms like “neediness” or “alpha” have no consensus definition. You grossly under-appreciate the complexity of some of this discussion. Flirting might have a dictionary definition, but good luck teaching someone to apply it right in a situation you can’t foresee. You’ll tell your favorite patient, “bart,” to go flirt, but you have NO idea what kind of conditions he’ll actually meet a girl under. Where’s that flirting mega-thread, Jack? Where is it?
I “dug up” this thread was because I didn’t have time to post much so I never got around to it. I’m here because I wish someone dispelled my belief in PUA and Manosphere crap quicker back in 2008. I’m here to point out what I believe is bullshit and what I think is helpful to newcomers – not Manosphere-virus infected oafs.

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Corny is unattractive.You don't know what flirting is...so how do you have a flirting repertoire?

You see...you're always putting words into my mouth, like you've done with others, because I've said to you specifically that pickup was whatever a guy does to meet women. I've never said that there was one way. I've said your advice was half-assed and bullshit. You say that you are only going to say so much because you don't have the time to explain. The difference is I'm calling you out on your shit since you say that PUA should be dispelled and your way of doing things are better and then you refuse to explain your own approach to meeting women in which you hold so highly. Do you see the problem with that? Explain your approach to meeting women and then let guys decide if that's the approach that they want to take instead of bitching about terminology and definitions.

You on the other hand never say that my advice doesn't work...you just say that you don't get how to do things because you can't understand certain terms and you complain that I'm not seeking a relationship and fixate on my lifestyle. Then you complain that I don't describe flirting enough and then turn around and say that it can't be explained because it may not be the right situation. If you want to find a thread where I explain flirting use the forum search function. I've explained it many times to different guys. Your ignorance on how to search isn't my problem.

At some point you have to quit playing the stupid role or quit putting Bart down. You have to be smart enough to understand what guys are talking about when they use the terminology. If you really don't understand what they mean, it's okay to ask. There have been guys on here that on a number of occasions stating that they wanted to be "more alpha" and I've asked what that meant to them. There may not be universal definitions but you don't need to shut down because you're not sure what somebody means.

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Like I said, I’ll take my chances knowing my experiences with making people laugh over your opinion. I also wouldn’t give a shit if she liked it all that much or not – since I’d have no investment in her at that point in time. That lack of neediness would be considered attractive. It would be conveyed in how I speak and carry myself. Win-win. End of this story.
What a lame comment. I don’t know what the hell *you* mean by flirting, since you never describe it (it’s in some mythical post?), but I sure know what it means to me. If a guy asked me about flirting specifically, I’d tell him my version of it.
Glad the feeling is mutual. I’m not going to write a book. I’m going to help guys step by step here. Most guys come on here at the point where they haven’t even asked the girl out. Don’t you get it? If they actually had a date set up and wanted flirting/escalation advice, they’d get that, specifically. What in the hell am I or someone else supposed to search for in your 4,500 (mostly useless one-liner comment) posts? Too much junk to go through. I’m willing to wager almost not a single poster that sees your advice searched for anything. Put your “quality” stuff in your signature. You don’t have to seek a relationship or do anything at all – I’m not here to help you specifically. On the flip-side, I’m sure plenty of guys on here would love to find a girlfriend (a real deal one, not some bullshit ‘gamed’ or inebriated one) – and I can help them. Step by step. I do wonder if you tell the girls you meet before you sleep with them that you’re just looking for something casual. I really do wonder…
One of the things I’m learning in my 20s is that communication between people – basic communication – is at a god-awful level. I see this all the time at work, too, when there’s a research meeting and people talk about various investment terms (equity risk premiums, P/E multiples, cash flow, etc.) These things have varying definitions, and in some cases not clarifying what someone is talking about means you don’t get as much value from the discussion at best or completely misinterpret what they say at worst.
Back here…. We have vague descriptions of issues (problem 1) these guys are having and a vocabulary that has no consensus definition (problem 2) – a lot of words simply carry binary meanings “e.g. Neediness = something bad … alpha = great.” What we end up (often, not always) with is shotgun advice to a problem we barely understand – because those problems compound. That’s what I’m pointing out.
And what’s with you and “bart?” You’re literally obsessed with the him. Do you know for a fact he’s not just a troll who’s screwing around?

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You're shit is corny. Search function. Use it. I've told guys to flirt and they've understood it. You don't. I've had guys ask for an example of how I'd flirt, and I gave it to them. You see what I mean by being smart enough to ask what somebody means if the definition isn't clear?I'm glad you agree that your advice is shit and half-assed.This is the point I'm trying to get across to you. You're on a pickup site. You tell a guy to be friendly but instant flirting is out of the question. Then you tell him to set up a lunch and look for things that you have in common and if you guys have something in common things will naturally happen. My point has been and continues to be, does a guy express attraction? Does he flirt with her during this lunch? You're not demonstrating attraction, even if you think the invitation should say it when you invite her. If you're not demonstrating it at lunch but ask her on a date at a later time, she's not likely going to agree to the date unless
1. she had already found you attractive before the lunch because there would be no spark. Having something in common is not enough of a spark.
2. she's agreeing because she doesn't want to hurt your feelings by turning you down. You have been friendly up to this point.
So the guy takes your advice and gets her to that lunch you left him hanging because the normal piece of advice that we'd give would be to flirt with the girl (if you need an explanation of what I mean by flirting, feel free to ask...otherwise use your own judgment) in order to get a spark that would lead to a date or even bounce to another spot from there. You say that you're not going to help again until he makes the actual date, "so fuck him and his lunch with the girl even though I told him to go to lunch with her."I don't like putting links in my signature. After the update messed up my links before, I've never cared to put the new format in. Why should I search through my 4500 posts just for your benefit?

I've never said that there aren't guys on here that don't want a relationship. You have come here saying that your advice is the advice that gets quality relationships that lead to something meaningful. You constantly put down PUA. So when you tell us that you have the advice that's for that quality relationships and you complain about PUA and the "manosphere", you should be able to give that advice. Your responsibility is greater because you aren't one of us guys that only think with our dicks, so for your help to resonate, you have to give a beginning to end outline since you are different from the rest of us. I'm not saying details. I'm saying a general overview and let guys ask questions if they need for you to fill in the blanks.

What's funny is that I knew you didn't know how I treat women because I've said it many times. The fact that you say that I'm only looking for something casual shows that you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to what I'm doing. But hell, you say I say things that I've never said. Why should I be surprised?Communication is a problem. Like I said, when I'm not sure what somebody may mean at times, I'll ask them. If I interpret what they said incorrectly, they'll tell me. I'm not going to be difficult about it or use it as fuel to argue for no good reason. Most of the time, we get it when someone says something.

I'm not sure why you say I'm obsessed with bart. I usually don't respond on his threads. He called women in LA out and someone asked my thoughts on it since I live here. Then he talked about a woman that won't take his hints and I responded to that recently. If I do respond to one of bart's threads, it's not because I'm thinking I'm going to fix bart. It's because even though he's been here for 5 years, answering some of his questions may benefit someone else if they can appreciate my advice.

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It’s OK if you don’t get it or like it.
Still no link to that mythical flirting post… funny. You have no way of knowing what they understood or didn’t – most of these guys just disappear. That obviously meant that my feelings mirror yours in the sense I think that your vague bullshit “advice” is worthless.
You’re so butthurt about a few of my posts that it’s hilarious. I’m sorry you never thought of this stuff. Lots of guys have gotten girlfriends or casual lovers this way – this is extended social circle “game” so to speak. You’re so clueless about women it’s not even funny. I’d suggest you visit some non-Manosphere exclusive forums and see what women are saying for a little color. When you invite a girl out solo they always think about sexual / romantic possibilities. Attracted and (many) neutral ones will say yes, taken/unattracted ones will say no. And that’s FINE. Girls just aren’t THAT stupid. Flirting isn’t going to create any spark anywhere except your imagination – what the hell are you talking about? The intent is obvious to her. Connecting with her in a meaningful way (could be MANY things) by expressing authentic interest in her AND exposing your authentic self is going to potentially create the spark. No fake bullshit.





You’re so disingenuous it’s nauseating. Fix your link shit – you post here all day – not for my benefit, but all those Barts that you try to help.
You never made your intent clear about what you wanted with women – so don’t blame me for making an assumption. If you want to set the record straight, go for it. Try and be genuine for once. Well, if you’re the flirting super-wizard around here, at least clarify what that means by putting that mythical flirting post back in your signature so it “may benefit someone else” (your words).

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The ones that care don't disappear. They'll follow up. Just like you won't explain yourself for me...I'm not searching for the post for you. However, if you do find it, I'll put it back in my sig.Yeah...but I enjoyed making you respond. It is flattering that you're always trying to mirror me. Are you flirting with me? I'm offering Pickup advice not non-Manosphere advice. I'm in my lane and in the right place for my advice. Even if I'm clueless, I'm asking for your help in understanding what you mean. Maybe you can help me get that loving relationship that has you so happy. Selfish asshole. Nobody gets to be happy but you.

I think you know that you're being dishonest about flirting but just want to remain consistent to that line of thought. You talk about that you've had experiences with women before you were married. If you are least an average looking guy, I know that you had to have a girl walk up to you at least once and start flirting just to get your attention. Why would you think a girl can approach a guy and flirt but it doesn't work the other way around?You're full of shit. You say that you don't have time to go through all 4500 of my posts, but you're telling me what I've never said. Look...I don't keep a copy of everything that I've wrote on the forum. I have to search for it like anyone else at this point. You don't want to search and neither do I. Thanks for the title...read above response.

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Guys calm down.

I'm calm. I'm enjoying talking to auto. He's here telling guys that flirting doesn't do anything to attract women and when you piece all of his advice together, it's be friendly and only approach women that take interest in you first and then if you have common interests, you'll end up being a couple and married. He knows because he did PUA for 3 months and after he gave up the woman that he married came and found him 6 months later. The life lesson here is that the women do the picking.

Since it's bothering you mojo...I'm done with this thread.

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Yeah sure.

This thread is kind of funny. I do get what Autoregressive is trying to say but it seems like he is talking about what he thinks that girls think. Yes we are smart and we know that guys like us. Yes we like it when we have something in common with a guy. I can't stand it when I sit across from a guy and he puts on a platonic act when he meets me and thinks that we're bonding over experiences. I just want to shake him so he treats me like a woman and not a friend. Guys should be confident enough to let me know that he thinks I'm attractive and flirting is a good move. No way I'm going to agree to a date if he's only talked to me like I was one of his guy friends. If I did agree then I'd probably cancel at the last minute. It's only giving me a preview of what an actual date with this guy would be.

Do you really still not get what I’m saying about flirting? You seem to think that:
1) It’s (almost?) always a good idea to begin with a flirty (sexual?) vibe when you hardly know the girl
2) Flirting generates attraction
That’s what I’m getting from you, however vague you concerns have been, and I disagree on both points.
First point, and I don’t know how to get this across to you, but flirting / sexual advances have their place and time, and neither belongs in the beginning of you getting to know someone new. I never said “don’t flirt” – just that there’s a right time to do it. For example, if she’s showing interest right off the bat, then go ahead and get flirty and sexual right off the bat. In most cases, she’ll be neutral to you and if she’s remotely wary about being used for sex, a flirty/sexual vibe is going to work against you when used at the wrong time (too early) – before she’s becoming more receptive to your advances.
And the second point there isn’t much to say – flirting shows sexual intent, but really isn’t going to make you any more appealing in her eyes. So hence it doesn’t do anything for attraction.
Don’t both sexes do the picking? How do both end up truly happy otherwise? You need to find the girl you like that also likes you back (or starts to like you back) – that’s it in a nutshell, no?
Anyway – you seem confused on something here: I never said let women take an interest first.
And regarding common interests – there’s more to it than that. It’s commonalities on many levels. Most guys don’t really have a good sense of who they are and what they want – so it becomes impossible for them to find a girl they gel with easily since they can’t know what they are looking for. And then people wonder why relationships don’t last. They just go with the easy route: think with dick and hope the rest of it works out. A few months later girl sees “empty relationship is empty” and bails – surrpppriiiiseee!!!

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