What's the fear of telling a girl you have a problem with something? I'm not talking about crying to her about how her comment about a guy hurt you and made you feel insecure or something. Nothing wrong with saying, hey this was disrespectful. If your boss tells you something you did wrong, does he lose value in some way?

The problem is freeze outs breed resentment. It's punishment. She does something wrong, you ignore her for a day. She's going crazy and is hurt in the meantime. No one is perfect so sooner or later, you'll do something wrong. It may be a bad joke, you forgot something, so she'll freeze you out. You're hurt. It breeds resentment instead of understanding.

Personally, my philosophy is anti boundary setting. I never understood this. If I have to tell you not to steal from me, it does nothing. If you were going to steal from me you'll still steal. I prefer to let the girl do her own thing. You'll see where you 2 are compatible in ideals. For eg, I won't tell a new gf not to go to lunch with guy friends. Because if I set that boundary, and she normally sees nothing wrong with it, she'll just do it behind my back. I won't tell a gf to respect me. Because if I have to tell her that, sure she'll act like she respects me, but if she doesn't she'll disrespect me behind my back and in her actions. The only boundaries I set really are those that I know are peculiar to me, stuff that I know I would have a problem with more than the avg person. I'd rather have a new gf where I set no boundaries with come to me and say ,"hey, I'm going to Fred's place to hang out and drink" and end it there than put a restriction on her that's against her principles and she'll just lie to me to do anyway. Humans are smart, and if you tell them what to do and they fundamentally don't agree with it they're gonna just find a way to do it. So I prefer to find women whose views on malle/female friends, respect,and cheating are similiar to mine. It's like the Bible and sex. The Bible says don't have sex before marriage, and even women who believe it, still have sex before marriage because they're natural urge is to have sex. So a rule isn't going to stop someone from doing what they believe is ok to do.
This is kinda sad tbh. If your girl doesn't know what makes you feel humiliated, why would she by your girl? She should know you. If you're real with her, she'll be real with you. It shouldnt be 2 people acting like they're superhuman people who just have fun and sex. You're human. You've been embarrassed before. She has too. Don't be on egg shells in a rs where you can't say something offended you. It's 2 parts: make sure you have your life handled before getting into a relationship so its not like everything embarasses you or you're insecure all the time. And then in the rare case that you are embarassed, you should be able to say that without worrying whether she still likes you.

Better to find someone who knows how to respect people, than find someone who doesn't and set a rule on it. As n2 is saying, if your girl wants to fuck a guy, doesn't matter what rule you place, she can fuck the business associates.

I agree with Neo.

Why be with somebody you have to mask and shield your emotions from. Not healthy at all. It takes far more courage to be vulnerable with somebody than to hide within yourself for fear of being judged.

I strongly agree within the context of Neo's original post BUT strongly disagree with settling relationship problems or disputes with "communication". 'Communication' or 'the talk' doesn't work in my relationships with women. Women don't understand well verbal discussions from men. They do, however, understand well the nonverbal solution which Neo prefers to call "punishment" instead of "nonverbal communication" which women are very good at.

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If you feel communication isn't helping your relationship, chances are you aren't very in touch with your self.

It must be sad existing in a relationship where the only voice you feel you have is through punishment. Maybe get a dog instead?

This was not something I've FELT. It's something I saw and experienced on many occasions and instances.

Punishment is nailing someone on the cross, sending someone to prison, giving someone hard labor without pay and related acts. Nonverbal communication is showing a woman that you (for example) don't want being shouted at without any form of physical violence or verbal abuse coming from your end.

I simply leave the woman alone, ignore her, and find a replacement. I always get better SPAM the next time around compared with verbal communication or "the talk".

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Your values should be aligned with hers in the first place. And why is it so difficult for her to understand "I was embarassed and disrespected when you called me an asshole in front of my friends"? Even if the freeze out is used after she calls you an asshole at a party, you'd have to leave her vicinity immediately or freeze out immediately for her to associate it with the asshole comment. Women ARE good at non verbal communication, hence men are confused and don't know what they did wrong and keep doing it. If you're saying you freeze out and move onto find someone on your level after a serious breach, I agree. Just not if you're saying freeze out to teach her something non verbally and go back with her.

In most, if not all, instances women make moves to try and get back and promise to change for the better; not the other way around.

My intention is not to teach women lessons but to stay away from women who cause me unnecessary stress or problems and keep those women who make me happy and take good care of them.

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So whenever you experience some issues with a woman, you leave her?

IF it is an abusive relationship I can understand leaving, but if its just some sort of typical upset leaving or ignoring would suggest to me you have an avoidant type of attachment. Ignoring is actually a form of psychological abuse, that is why I don't condone freeze-outs.

There are a number of studies that show giving children time-outs in isolation does more harm than good, and invokes the same areas of the brain where one experiences physical pain.

Those studies on kids are irrelevant since we are discussing adult women.

So how would you suggest dealing with women who are shouting at you and verbally abusing you? Shout at them too? Slap them on the face?

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That's a really good question. I think ultimately you're asking how to distinguish abuse from a 'normal' relation spat (I always use the word normal loosely).

As a rule of thumb I would leave any situation where I've felt I've heard one more word than I am able to endure.


I've been shouted at, verbally and physically abused at the hands of a woman. It's not a fun thing to go through. First time you're incredulous about it having happened. Second and third time maybe more of the same. If it's not dealt with it can easily precipitate into one of those abusive relationships you see in the plot line of any given movie of the week, or memories of that one horrid relationship you witnessed your friend go through.

Having experienced it, and retaliating (which did nothing but fuel the fire) I realize that ALWAYS staying in touch with your values is essential to responding to situations of abuse (or any situation for that matter).

That means LEAVING the situation, at a minimum to give space and allow things to cool down so both people can think and reflect rather than stay in anger and allow themselves to be consumed and controlled by emotion limbic system fight/flight/freeze responses.

The important thing when you extricate yourself from a bad/abusive situation is that you let the person know that the situation isn't healthy and that you need to take care of yourself. Leaving at that moment (hopefully before things have escalated beyond the point of no return) is actually the most loving, caring, and respectful thing you can do for yourself and your partner. It doesn't warrant any explanation. You can revisit the situation hours later, the next day, whatever...the point is the responsibility is YOURS to take care of yourself, not to hang around and FIX her (she's a big girl, hopefully - she can take care of herself).

For the guys who feel the need to solve every relationship spat this is the most challenging part. It requires sitting with some heavy feelings and walking away from your girl even if she may be sobbing irreconcilably.

In terms of "freezing out" and withdrawing without giving any indicator as to why is just another passive-aggressive tactic. It either comes off as pouting behaviour (which is 'childish' behavior in itself) or even worse influences the person to believe you simply don't care or are no longer interested in pursuing a relationship with them; if a girl comes to you as a consequence of the freeze-out, it's likely due to her feeling really insecure with herself and is scared to lose the attachment (not necessarily you per se, but the attachment itself).

Fair enough N2.

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I called Hellhound passive aggressive, and compared his behavior to a woman in another thread.

I feel like if a girl spits in your face or whatever she has crossed a line. People in relationships think they can get away with stuff because of "longevity". If a dude did that he would get punched in his shit, and if some random chick did that you wouldn't be thinking about withdrawing attention as punishment then going back to her later.

The problem I see with the passive aggressive stuff is that even if the girl comes back. She knows, "I can get away with it. All he will do is take his ball and go home for a while, but then come back."

When I was first starting out I used it. I started seeing the women catching on and responding to this predictable behavior by just doing the disrespectful thing in order to make me distance myself when they wanted some space and then attempt to re-establish the relationship later. I would accept them back thinking some lesson was learned, then the cycle would repeat itself. It doesn't fix anything.

I see that in relationships the partners actually treat each other worse then they would a stranger. It amazes me. So now I'm cutthroat on certain boundaries. I don't like insanity loops.

To Neo,

You say that the girl will just ignore the rules and do stuff anyway. Why set rules when You can just give her total liberty and see where the chips fall?

Lets look at the spectrum of this philosophy. On one end power, the other compliance. Your idea is a point somewhere around the middle of this line. 50-50, total equilibrium. My style is more 90-10 where 90%of the power in the relationship belongs to me and about 10% to the woman. Also meaning I comply 10% and the woman 90%.

This model does not sit well with some women. True, and they through rebelliousness, or ideals, or thinking "you can't control me," or whatever will make her try to move the balance. Or go behind your back. They just get kicked to the curb. If you've seen me post I talk about women having different ideas on relationships.

There are plenty of women who will accept this balance no questions asked. They fall into certain psychology behavior patterns that allow me to predict with about a 90% accuracy if she is the type to sneak and do something, or is the honest and genuine type. I leave very little to random chance man.

Giving that much power to a woman creates problems. I see that the closer the point on that spectrum is moved to the 50-50 line, the more problems are created in the relationship. Basically because she is a woman, and she isn't designed to lead relationships by nature.

If she knows she can call you an asshole in front of your friends or slap you or something, and all she will get is a stern talking to or a temporary cold shoulder it won't prevent her from doing it again. I wouldn't call her a bitch in public or put my hands on her so she is not allowed to do that to me.

I know relationships aren't all peaches and cream. There is a structure I have to dealing with relationship problems. A problem stems from the both of us not being on the same page. My women don't act out because they know the terms up front. They usually manifest by withdrawals or being cold. Passive aggressiveness, or they just tell me in a calm collected manner. They won't fake smile in my face while being upset on the inside because I screen for the honest genuine types. So they show me with passive aggressiveness. At which point I think through what could be wrong with her, and If I can't figure it out on my own I just ask her.

Even though the power balance is what it is I'm not getting weak docile women. Given the platform they tell me everything they have a problem with. If they don't and try to hide what's wrong I get suspicious of their honesty, and I kick them to the curb. Honesty and transparency is one of the boundaries. She is allowed to call me out on my bullshit and tell me what problems she has, but not in an explosive disrespectful way. That 10% she has is meant to give her a platform for improving me as a person. I lead the rest of the engagement. I am the man.

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beta as fuck. are you a man or a woman? do you think the dudes who served in world war 2 came home and talked to their wives about their fucking feelings? do you think divorce rates are through the god damn roof by pure chance? nope, it's because dudes get infected at an early age with beta feels like this...

you're a fucking man. you don't talk to women about your emotions. period. you need to do some serious, serious re-thinking if you think it's remotely attractive/healthy to do that. if you have an emotional issue, talk to your male friends. talk to your mentors. talk to your parents. but do not fucking talk to your significant other.

it takes courage and strength to keep shit to yourself and not depend on someone else to solve your issues for you.

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You must be overconfident and cocksure, even if you haven't got a god damn thing in the world going for you. And you must fail with women until you do not fear the possibility of failure, whereupon you will succeed wildly.

spot-on hellhound. sad how these guys think a logical, honest discussion with a girlfriend is somehow the right thing to do. just completely ignorant with regard to fundamental differences between the sexes.

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You must be overconfident and cocksure, even if you haven't got a god damn thing in the world going for you. And you must fail with women until you do not fear the possibility of failure, whereupon you will succeed wildly.

I take it you're very young or mentally stunted. Either way, you're going to find life to be full of pain with that mentality. Good luck with that.

I'm also betting that when you aren't at clubs alone getting the cold shoulder from women you approach, you're sitting at home with a wad of vaseline in your hand and your pants to your knees. Given from your previous advice to the OP, you have next to no understanding of what a healthy relationship looks like let alone much experience with women, and who could blame you, you were likely raised this way and know of no other way.

I can see you've got A LOT to learn, so stick around.