First off, I was intoxicated when I wrote that.

Second, we've already been away on vacation together... After only one month of knowing one another.

And finally, she's the one that's much needier than myself. If anything, I've been detached and not shown her how I truly feel. So if I'm in fact needy (which I know I am not), then it'd be healthy for our relationship.

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Before she can respect you, you need to respect yourself.

Being needy and "smothering" is not a 2 way street FS. If she's needy and you get needy, she'll get turned off any way. You've been on a trip together and now she wants to go with her friends. It's that simple and has nothing to do with you. When the whole "love dovey" whirlwind romance phase at the beginning slows down, people try to find a balance between being in a relationship and having their own lives and friends. If you're still caught in the we must do everything together mindset, it will pressure her and make her feel smothered.

But, what do I know? Keep pressuring her to be included. If she does include you, you'll be a burden. If you don't go with her, you'll be resentful.

The honeymoon phase of our relationship isn't over.

And I agree with you that even when she's being needy, and you reciprocate, often times the girl will get turned off. However, the true skill is recognizing when she's put off by your neediness and being able to punish her by distancing yourself and giving her the cold shoulder. And a healthy relationship is one in which the neediness from both parties is well balanced, and that's exactly what I've been doing. I know when I'm giving her too much, and when I'm giving her too little.

And just to be clear, she doesn' t know just how upset I am over not being included in her trip, and I haven't been pushing to be included. There's no reason why should pressure her to be included on her trip -- that would push my neediness over the edge. If anything, I should give her a reverse psych speech and tell her how good the trip will be for her. It's up to her to realize she'll have a hard time being without me for two months.

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Before she can respect you, you need to respect yourself.

Women set the pace of the relationship; you don't. This is fact. You are trying to set the pace here. She's not needy. She's being reasonable.

Secondly, how do you know you're still in a honeymoon phase. Why do you think there's a set time period written in the rules book of how long it should be?!? It's dynamic and it depends on each couple's dynamic relationship. Know the saying that you go fast in, you crash and burn quick. You are doing just that.

Now I see you guys went on a vacation together. Whose idea was this? Yours or hers? This is really important, but either way you set yourself up for failure.

European trips are usually NOT planned in just a matter of weeks. It's a long preparation period with research of places to live and sights to see. I suspect that your GF had planned for this a few months ahead before she met you. But I think when you guys hit it off, both of you went really well; maybe lusting each other. So maybe, just maybe she wanted to include you into her European trip, but she needed to test you for compatibility reasons so she doesn't end up suffocating herself, her friends and yourself. A trip is supposed to be fun, not torture. Think about your woman always looking out for your welfare and hers!

You mentioned you guys went on a trip. This is excellent info. Was this her idea or yours? If it's her idea, then you just went through her sh*t test and failed. Women usually do this to test to you before they include you into any of their major lives. It's a major step. Part of this test is to travel and live together and see how it works out. Is she stressed out afterwards or did she enjoyed it? If she enjoyed the first trip with you, she WILL INCLUDE YOU on her European trip guaranteed and she will make a point of mentioning your name on the trip. I know this because I've been through these a few times.
You don't have to go through this childish play now. There wouldn't even been a discussion at all. You will go on her trip.

The fact that there is a discussion means that she probably feels based on her experience going away with you that it's way too soon in the relationship and 3 months is just not long enough time to hold it together. She merely tries to protect this relationship. You, on the other hand, is hastening its demise!

Perhaps you are a bit insecure to think that well if she's gone to Europe for 2 months, she might meet some Euro stud and I'll loose my GF. Well then, it's a gamble you'll have to take, but I think your possessiveness and neediness in your part even if you end up going with her will eventually end this relationship. Trust her and be fair to her. Suffocating her on that trip will put a bad mark on you and that's not fair to her. Imagine her friends there too! The gossip and the talks. It'll go around.

In my opinion it doesn't really matter whether you've been together for 3 months or 3years. She should respect you enough to know that the moment you both agreed on going exclusive everything she'd do would affect you and in reverse. We as men sometimes try to rationalize women's actions and make excuses for them in our own minds, letting their wrongdoings slide. Fact of the matter is I don't think there's one guy here (Neo87 & Mikemight included) that would get in a serious relationship and after even only three months decide to go away on a two month trip to Europe without their girlfriends, without explanation for why they haven't included them and without offering that they join them on ALL those trips instead of the last.

She could've...
1... Asked you to go with
2... Cancelled her plans, knowing that going without you would hurt you (And she does know this, whether you decided to show emotion or not)
3... Dump you, then go, so as to not string you along for the emotional rollercoaster while she's living it up in Europe

No respect, no consideration

Unit does make a good point, but I disagree on perspective. I wouldnt go away for a 2 month trip in the first place if I got into a serious relationship 3 months earlier. That IMO would be irresponsible because the distance and time could put a lot of strain on a new relationship. I'd at least wait a few more months when the relationship is much stronger to think about making it a long distance relationship for so long. I don't know FSwatter's gf or their age but that's an immature and irresponsible action to me if you're in a new relationship.You don't go on a 2 week vacation after being on a job for only 3 weeks.

I suspect that the problem in this situation is in the details. How old is the gf? What kind of girl is she? Does she work? How can she take 2 months off?

Anyway, I don't believe anything is wrong with not bringing someone along on a trip. You should let the person you're with know beforehand but exclusivity doesn't mean that all my trips with my friends has to have my gf. That's me personally, and because I prefer to not blur the lines between friend and gf. My gf has spoken to me about going to thailand for a month way in the future, if ever, and although she invited me, I wouldnt go because thailand isn't my place, I'm too busy to take vacation time for a place that's not MY dream to go to. Plus, I'd want her to get the experience she wants. When you're with someone and you're on a trip, it kinda becomes a WE are doing this. I'd want her to experience it for herself.

If I were FS, I'd be more concerned in how serious she could be about me to go away for 2 months. As I've said, I believe that details are missing here about the relationship and dynamic.

Happy people are generally happy most of the time. They seek happy people and happy situations to practice their happy trade.

Angry people are generally angry most of the time. They seek angry people and angry situations to practice their angry trade. You've thought up a lot of different ideas and it's all plausible and well thought out: Commitment, honesty, neediness, control, etc . . . but mostly, you're using these topics to hide your anger. Your words, actions, and involvement in this relationship are a manifestation of your anger. There were many situations where you could have taken 10 seconds to think things through, and then expressed other emotions. Instead, you forged on with your vice.

You found yourself the perfect girl to unleash your shit. She's unsure, ditzy, non-committed, a Disney dreamer . . . So you get to slam your fist, raise your voice, sing your drama opera, and justify all of it with your logic. Why not? She's in the wrong. . . preemptive dumps, fun trips without you, non-communicative. She punishment! You guys are the perfect Walmart couple. . . (No disrespect to the retail chain. Recently bought a pair of boxers there.) Why is it that I can always spot an angry couple at a Walmart? This happened 20 yeas ago and I still remember seeing a couple who probably totaled 700+ lbs together. The lady grabbed the 'wrong' item off the shelf and the guy called her an idiot. So she replied, "why did you call me that? And he replied, "Because you're a retard." - I was an innocent bystander just looking for a damn non-stick pan I was traumatized by that event enough to remember it to this day. Think about what that DAILY dose of toxicity does to each other? . . . Did she do something wrong? Well, it was the 'wrong' item after all. . .

You're arguing to yourself about time frames, events, situations, relationships, etc . . . and when you do this, you will always find ways to justify your shit. And you will always find women who will be more likely to trigger this shit because they too will be 'used to' the punishment. And happy, well adjusted people? Well, I think you already know that they tend to keep you far away from their lives having identified your habits. If you want to be treated better, try treating others better first.

WELL. I never necessarily saw her as an angry person -- she's actually perma-happy and doesn't hold grudges against people. The first 1.5 months saw absolutely no fights, and perhaps not so surprisingly to you, I was actually getting bored. After fights started occurring, that's when I really began to realize I was into her. So if anything, I'm the one holding all this anger inside of me, and she's been tolerating it. In general, I treat her well and with respect. I don't name call her or anything of the sort. Our spats may become heated but they remain civil. However, I can admit I'm the instigator to most of these spats. If I understand your quote correctly, you're suggesting I stop going to war with her? That I should put my ego aside and tell her I'll join her? Side note: she did leave me a few messages, one containing: "Thinking of u, and how awesome it would be to travel with u again.. "

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Before she can respect you, you need to respect yourself.

You might want to read over my post again. You are not 'holding' anger. You are creating situations that allow you to exercise and justify your anger.
You might chuckle at the thought but take a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjHmaV8fyek

These things tend to work on a scale. If shoving a knife in her face and slapping her around ranks 10 on the scale of abuse, then how would 'verbally heated' threats of breaking up rank? Even though one could justify that you're a lot nicer than a rapist, you do in fact follow the cycle of abuse. Your girl isn't 'tolerating' you, she's surviving you.

Without really seeing you communicate, I can only recommend some general advice:

1. Wait. Wait 10 seconds. Wait 1 minute. Wait 1 hour. Just wait. You're a pouncer. You lay out these situations, just waiting to pounce on an opportunity express your anger. You're going to set these situations up without even realizing it. But you can always wait. Instead of slamming fists, raising voice, or saying something you'd regret later (or have to justify), you can just wait. And in that moment of silence think:

a. What is the end I am trying to achieve?
b. What is the best way for me to communicate my objectives so that she will receive it well and I can achieve the end I desire?
c. Open your mouth and speak slowly and carefully.

2. You'll want to figure out the source of your anger. You probably already have a good idea of the source but you might have mistaken 'forgetting about it' for 'resolving it'.

Well to answer your question, probably a 3 at best. In the relationship of 5 years, I was a definite abuser (although not a physical abuser). This gave me comfort in the sense I knew she'd stick by me. But this relationship isn't quite abusive from either end. When I said I "slammed my fist on the desk" I was merely speaking metaphorically. Our heated spats are exchanged at raised voices, but certainly no yelling is involved. Well I thought about this for the whole day. I believe deep down, it's a struggle for the pants. I was the clear leader up until she managed to convince me to prove to her that I wanted to be with her. That's when I lost command, and when rage started building inside of me. It's also about the same time she decided she had full control over my schedule, and that she would decide what movie we'd see on movie night. About the same time she decided she could bring some friends along without checking with me first. The kind of little things that I actually don't really care too much about, but care in the sense that she thinks she's boss. I usually put up a struggle, but in the end I relent because they don't affect my life much, if at all.

This is highly related to her European getaway. She wants me to join her, without asking me -- as if it's an expectation that I join her. As if she can pick the destination, and I must agree to go where she goes. This is where I draw the line. There is a big difference between deciding on what movie to spend $10 on, and where to go to spend $1000+. This is why I cannot put my ego aside and let her get her way. Because let's face it, am I going to let her pick our house too? Will I let her decide exactly how to raise our kids? These are important decisions, and accepting to be strung along would set a precedent which I cannot allow to happen. And besides that, let's not forget an important principle of attraction is leadership: women gravitate towards men with leadership skills. Allowing myself to be turned into her little bitch would certainly decrease her attraction for me. Not to mention I would feel demoralized with her carrying my testicles in her purse.

So, getting angry is my way of showing command and attempting to regain the pants. I understand there may be better ways to deal with this, even though I believe my anger is relatively muted. This consists of me going on a brief profanity-laced rant, followed by radio silence for a few hours. This is effective as she doesn't fight back and is often apologetic. On the other hand, when I put up a struggle without administering any other punishments, she rather gets annoyed quickly and is quick to complain. So, do I have an incentive to remain civil and try to deal with things the adult way? Not really.

So really, to answer question 1b, I'm returning you that question in the context of regaining the pants.

And as far as Europe is concerned, obviously a civil discussion is in order. I will have to politely decline the next time she asks me and try to explain things from my point of view.

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Before she can respect you, you need to respect yourself.

So you were mad that she didn't invite you, but she invited you so you're mad that she expects you to just join her? Huh....
It's only been 3 months...seriously you sound like you take this relationship way too seriously. If you have rage and need to punish her walk away from the relationship and fix those issues. Honestly, read your post. You sound like you could beat this woman or some woman some day.

Honestly i agree with Neo87, you might have some anger issues you need to deal with man. I posted a few times on this thread and you got hot with me in a forum post. So i quit repling to this thread. I think you need to look at yourself a little bit.

Rule #1: Leave the woman better than you found her.

Well, here's a shocker for you both: until this thread, no one close to me has ever called me an angry person. I've always been told I am a calm and collected guy. So for both of you to call me an angry person with angry issues just confirms what I knew all along: you both have have little idea what you're talking about and don't understand the dynamics of a relationship for crap. I honestly rolled my eyes at your post about the guy who impregnated his girlfriend. It's great that you guys offer moral support, but please don't say a thing when you're unsure what you're talking.

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Before she can respect you, you need to respect yourself.

Most of the time, the one that are the most calm and collective in public are the one that have the most anger behind closed doors. You being so defensive in your posts here on a forum, confirms that.

Relationships have some different rules than just sarging lots of different women. Sometimes moral support is required in a healthy relationship but not to much that you give up your role as a man.

You have great insight when replying to other peoples post alot of times on the forums. Why so defensive when others are discuss a thread you started?