But how many did he influence? Doubt he cared enough to expense mental energy on women with brains of mush. Although named "How to Win FRIENDS and influence PEOPLE," Dale speaks of attraction as a whole. There must be a meeting ground between the theories. They're two completely different facets of the same subject.

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"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche

go on.

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"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche

Ill be brief,

The root of Carnigies therom is that by spending time listening and responding to the speaker on their terms and on their topics you are gaining his/her affinity by giving him what he/she desires, social approval, respect, and camaraderie.

This is a very effective technique for making friends and a somewhat effective technique for influencing people. However our goal of the PUA is different. We are not looking to make friends or aquire affinity, we are looking to gain the attraction of desirable woman.

Thus we have to elicit some social value in their eyes and hearts. Higher Social value/status that is above the targets own value, this is the "romantic" incentive for them to want to be with us in a sexual way. By using Carniegies method of increasing affinity vs. attraction, its a subtle difference for the noobie but an essential one. Experienced PUA's know that they dont need a girl to actually like them to fuck them. You know you are getting good at game when you start f-closing chicks you dont like, and really dont like you. That last sentence will make sense to all the experienced guys and make no sense to the new and AFC. If the AFC focuses on girls liking them, they are usually working against attraction in most cases. We want woman to respect us and be attracted to us, whether they actually "like" us and are our friend isn't essential in the short run.

As far as when Carniges postulations would be appropriate in PUA? After you have her strong attraction in which some rapport/comfort is now warranted to close the deal, especially with 9-10's. Often you dont need any rapport or comfort with 5-8's.

Whilst I'd certainly sway more on Detox's side of this debate, I would just mention that even the theory Detox discusses needs limits or it isn't going to be successful. If you drone on about yourself and brag about various things, you're going to come across as a bore rather than impressing.

I agree very much with Detox's last paragraph as well, but would possibly take that further if he doesn't mind me doing so. If you're just looking for a one night stand, then to be honest you can probably omit the Carnegie theory bit altogether more often than not. However, if you're looking for a number of dates and a possible relationship or similar, then you do need to start building more rapport and can use the Carnegie theory bit more extensively. However, I think it's important that you've ALREADY built attraction before this. If you go straight in with the Carnegie theory bit, you're likely to end up in the friend zone. If you've built attraction first, then sort of drip-feed the Carnegie bit in little drop by drop the more times you see the girl, whilst retaining an element of the attraction, then that's probably going to bring the most success in terms of slightly more long term relationships.

When I said talk about yourself, I meant only do that when the conversation hits a lull. Yes, ideally you want to engage the person in friendly back and forth type of banter and talking about things both of you have in common. If they like talking about themselves, then by all means let them. If they want to talk about things that both you and they enjoy, then ask questions and give answers, and let them do the same. But if the conversation hits a lull, and they have nothing else to say to you, then you can start in with talking about yourself just to keep the conversation going so it doesn't lose steam.

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“Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!” ~Audrey Hepburn

I wouldn't disagree with any of this. You need to work the Friendly/rapport/comfort/compatibility aspects into any relationship you want to last, unless its a totally dysfunctional relationship.

However, as in almost all my posts, I tell new guys to almost solely focus on attraction as they need a ton of help learning how to generate attraction, Whilst they tend to come from a background of going overboard with friendly/rapport/comfort. Experienced guys can moderate these different elements, but left to their own devices a lot of AFCS like to just focus on "Friendly mode" because thats all they know, and they cant make progress this way.

Oh yeah I agree with that logic. And like I said, regardless of what you're looking for, you need to build the attraction first, so that should be your sole focus when you're starting out. Just thought it was worth a mention!

After i started the conversation, they simply respond to my question or anything, they didnt bring up anything and theres an awkward silence. I was totaly blank and didnt know what to do to carry the conversation.
Are there anything that do with my appearance or voices' ton?

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Looking for PUA San Jose or SF.

Money.Power.Respect

Some sets won't feel you. High energy is important because it will help to get them involved in the conversation. If you have bad tonality and low energy they'll lose interest and start looking away.

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“Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!” ~Audrey Hepburn

Yeah, in my opinion, i think i probably have a monotone. Other people view me as a cool and quiet which it counts as low energy?

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Looking for PUA San Jose or SF.

Money.Power.Respect

Yea monotone is no good. This security guard I know has this groggy monotone voice and its like he never gets excited or passionate or loud when speaking, no matter what the conversation is. He's obviously a very calm and even-keeled person, but his voice just sounds so annoying and makes him seem like such a boring AFC type of guy. And if that is enough for a man to notice and be put off by, imagine what it's like for a woman who he is trying to get with.

Being nervous is the primary reason that we become low-energy and speak in a monotone voice. I've had that problem in job interviews too, and with public speaking.

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“Nothing is impossible, the word itself says 'I'm possible'!” ~Audrey Hepburn

As the ppl at school know me, I am already a figure of cool and calm, thats doesnt fit with high energy.
If i tried to be high energy, or try my best to act like i am high energy, would that be weird? cuz that doesnt fit their impression to me. Indeed, how can i get rid of my monotone and be high energy, definitely a challenge for myself.

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Looking for PUA San Jose or SF.

Money.Power.Respect

Everyone likes to talk about themselves...
just ask questions, and pay attention to which subjects they would more like to talk about,
then BAHM! you have a conversation. (:

study from the pua

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peacock gears

the case is , i ask question,they answer it, i ask, they answer....
if i stop asking, they stop answering,---walk away....

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Looking for PUA San Jose or SF.

Money.Power.Respect