Haha! Nice work sir. Spose its up to you isn't it? Do you fuck her a few times and keep her at arms length? Or do you continue being generally awesome and she'll just continue to rue the day?
Splendid.

That's irritating man, I can't stand women that flirt right in front of me. I would of tried to get her to pick up the tab after that, maybe tried the old "I left my wallet in the car" or something, then never talk to her again.

As far as this thread goes, Mack pretty much nailed it. The only thing I don't agree completely with is not telling her how you feel. Or should I say, tell her your boundaries. What I mean is, and I have done this with countless women, let her know that you don't put up with that kind of behavior, and if that is the way she has to act, perhaps you guys would be better off as friends. Don't approach it as a ultimatum, but explain how it embarrasses you (because it has to I'm sure), and that a man that respects himself like you do does not let people continue to embarrass him.

But, it may be too late in this situation simply because you have let it go on for too long. Women respect a man that respects himself and knows when to put them in their place.

I just read the rest of this thread, and forget my previous advice, Mack's approach is the only one that might work for you. No offense, but you are not NEARLY alpha enough to pull the above off. You don't need to "segue" with women you are intimate with, you just say what you want and lay down the boundaries and let them know these are YOUR boundaries, there is no negotiating them. Women respect a straight-forward man that knows what he wants, and you have definitely not given this girl that impression and it is too late now.

Good luck. Good posts Mack

OP, how is the big freeze going?

I'm going to buck the trend here (fancy that!), because what countless posters here are hailing as the best way to handle your problems like a man is instead the most passive-aggressive way possible. There is a clear dichotomy between "handling something like a man" and "freezing-out, passive-aggressive" bs, and they are at odds with one another. What could be more indirect than freezing out? You're going to rely on someone else to come up with a conclusion about what you are thinking and feeling? Nah! It is like saying "I can't decide what to do or how to handle this... so I'll do NOTHING! That'll teach her." What???

I'll admit that freezing-out may, in the short term, get you some relief for your problem. Of course, the opposite could happen, but for the sake of fairness let's assume the freeze-out goes exactly how you planned... She may come back to you and may even devote more of her time to you because of her fear of loss, but what you've started with a freeze-out solution (which is an extreme and volatile action) is a process by which you've maintained the relationship through fear, and not through admiration or respect. Yes, she will be afraid to lose you, but over the long term, she will begin to resent your behavior, because every time you come upon some little speed bump like this, you'll have to increase the intensity of your freeze-out... and, of course, she will eventually catch on to your "solution" and will become less affected by it. (And yes, I said "little speed bump" because this, man, is small potatoes... this is nothing. When your girlfriend starts ignoring you to hang out with him, that's when you worry)

You must be thinking, "Well, what do you suggest?" I can't say, because I truly believe you do not need to resolve anything about this other than your own view of this behavior. This hasn't been brought up before, but in all likelihood your problem is exaggerated by your "jealousy filter". The way you see these things going down, and the way you feel about your girlfriend's supposed detachment, is most likely exacerbated by your pre-existing feelings of jealousy. You feel jealous, it clouds your mind, you interpret events poorly, you become more jealous, it gnaws at you, you interpret things even more poorly... yuck. Have you considered this possibility?

Let me put it this way: even if your girlfriend is attracted to this guy, and even if you're somehow immune to the "jealousy filter" and everything you've seen and felt is exactly how it is in the real world, you've said you've tried freeze-outs and it doesn't work. That is because freeze-outs always come off as pouting and immaturity, and unless you do them immediately, she will not be able to put two and two together to make four. You'll be doing yourself a disservice, and causing a lot of confusion and heartache for her. All because you can't man up and say:

"Hey, babe. I know this is going to sound silly, but at that bar-be-que I got a little jealous of you and [guy]. I know it is probably nothing, but I felt weird because I thought you were flirting with him. It just bothered me a little bit."



I know you're not going to do any of the above, but can you please keep a log of how your freeze-out goes? I'm just curious...

_________________
- Lux et Veritas -

Thank you Wal - this was what i was actually looking for (Mack's was a bit strong, though I'll definitely keep it in mind for big things)-- something I could say directly yet not lose my frame and come across as angry/possessive/AFC. I'll keep you posted -- So far from the freeze-out she's initiated texting all the times and arranged a date already.

(and yes, I agree my jealousy filter might be a bit messed up; that's why I've also asked for inner game advice)


cementing-your-girlfriends-loyalty-vt59 ... nt+loyalty

I've looked at this post, where the poster goes to explain the difference between a simple freeze-out and a freeze-out where you explicitly tell her what made you do that, and it makes a lot more sense. I just needed to know how to maintain my frame and not come off as pouting/insecure.

I disagree 110% based on experience and results. No offence.

Yeah there's just something amiss with basically being balls out honest and admitting that her flirting with this guy bothers you. Logically it makes sense to do it, but in reality you sow the seed in her head theat she can do this and you won't do anything about it.

As I said earlier. She already is doing it. Saying that it bothers you wont make her stop doing it. It's not as if she is gonna go 'oh it does? well i'll consider your feelings and stop then' because SHE IS ALREADY DOING IT.

Directly telling her - she will just deny deny deny...she won't take any responsibility - believe me, nothing bites back harder than a woman who feels she is being cornered/has been found out. Logical discussion WILL NOT work.

If I (as a man) was tooling on you, or was hitting on your GF and you said 'that's not cool bro. I dont like that you do that, fuck off' I would 100% understand what you were saying and a) back off or b) flip you the bird - bottom line I would understand 100% what you are saying to me. Your GF won't.

You will have handed her the frame control and, in your next big disagreement/fight this tiny act of jealousy admittance will come out 1000 times magnified and you will be framed as an insecure pussy.

Do what Mack says. It might not appear logical and may appear to be crying out for a reason and a breakdown of exactly why, but i guarantee that if you were to embark on trying to reason and justify using examples, they would all be blown out with her emotional bombs and the whol ething would descend into farce.

It is enough to just take the action and let her worry/figure out the reason why. Cos you telling her will not process with her.

my 2pence.

No offense taken. But Kuja, based on your post above, it seems as though you got a great result when you openly confronted your ex about this. You found out that she held the two of you to two completely different standards, which is not a desireable trait for a girlfriend. You were able to find out that she had a bizarro view of the world, and you broke it off with a girl who was going to do whatever she wanted, all the while holding you to a different standard. That sounds like a win to me, even if it might have hurt like hell at the time. Are you so sure freezing her out would have gotten that message to you as quickly and effectively? I doubt it. I think you might still be with her to this day, repeating the mistake of freezing her out over and over... and wondering why she doesn't get the message, or why she misinterprets the freeze-out and responds in an unrelated way.

I am not fan of freeze-outs, not because they never work, but because in almost all cases there is a more effective, more direct way to get what you want, and with better lasting results to boot. In this case in particular, how are you ever going to make the problem clear unless you express it?
At least she will have a chance of understanding why you're being such a baby about some nonsense if you tell her. Again, how does the silent SPAM get any message across at all?
Who said to do nothing about it? Perhaps I could have been more clear: If you decide that your girl is disrespecting you by flirting with other guys in front of you, and you either cannot confront your own insecurities, or it is so blatant that it would be disrespectful to a neutral observer, you have one of two options:
1. Directly confront her, tell her what bothers you, draw a line, and see if she will comply. If she does not comply, dump her; or,
2. Dump her.

This method solves the problem in both of the possible ways that it is presenting itself. If the truth is that your girl is so into another guy that her activities are not subdued by your presence, she is not a good fit for you and you two break up, so problem solved. On the other hand, if you are so insecure that you see these friendly gestures as real and tangible threats to your relationship, you should also break up so that you can fix the insecurity or find a play-doh faced girl that will accomodate your insecurity. Again, problem solved.

Now, let's take a look at what a freeze-out does in each of the above two scenarios:
1. Your girl really is into the guy
You freeze-out, she flirts, you pout, she gets upset, she maybe comes back to you, she maybe "makes a little mistake" with the guy, all the time you don't know because you're off in "I'm not talking to you" la-la-land.
2. You're insecure, and your girl is just being friendly.
You freeze-out, your girl gets confused, she tries to understand what is going on, you've got your mouth shut because you're too "alpha" to tell her what is up, immature cycle of emotional baggage continues. She puts up with it until "the next time" she makes some invisible dent in your egoic alpha armor, then has to go through it again. One day she gets tired of dealing with your childish freeze-outs and dumps you. I then applaud her for getting rid of an emotionally manipulative butthole.

You guys are talking about freeze-outs as if they are a positive action or a form of proactive control, when they could be nothing further from that. They are the opposite. They are the ultimate lack of action.

The most important point that I can make about freeze-outs: it continues a cycle of emotional manipulation that is a hallmark of those who have such insecurities over minor issues. It does nothing to provide a lasting solution to the real problem, which is the insecurity of the guy attempting it. In fact, it actively widens the gap of "you vs. me" and creates a larger and larger bubble for this insecure guy to hide in. "If I freeze her out and she doesn't get it, then it is her fault" --That mentality is the least healthy thing I can even think of, because it reduces the actual problem (the insecurity of the guy) to an external problem with someone else, and allows Mr. Insecure to retreat inside his shell without addressing the source of the problem: himself.

However, and I say again, I fully believe this situation is all a contruct of OP's "jealousy filter," if you will. The primary point of my post was that any reaction at all is over-reaction, much less an extreme one like a freeze-out. This is small-potatoes, and should be treated as such. But you guys want to drop the hydrogen bomb on one little dude with an RPG and a bowie knife. Overkill.

Wal, I agree with you. Reading these answers made me think in retrospective of my past relationship and all the times such behavior didn't bother me and I was starting to think I was allowing so much disrespect, but in fact it didn't bother me because it just didn't mean anything and the casual observer wouldn't think anything of it. Insecurities are a bitch. But the line of disrespect is something completely different. No one wants to be perceived as a tool that his GF doesn't respect enough to blatantly flirt with others, but until it crosses that line, I guess it's just insecurities.

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rAFC and yes, I'm a chick.

I have bursts of being a lady, but it doesn't last long.

amen, calimoxo

also, for the 364th time, i didn't recommend a freezeout.

i recommended "stepping back" in the relationship.

read what i wrote.

_________________
what dr. house brings to medicine, i bring to everyday life (an extreme dose of cynicism), don't listen to the curmudgeon!

To reiterate the point - neither me or mack were saying freeze her out or ignore her. We were saying change the dynamic of the relationship by taking action. It's not passive aggressive; passive aggressive is whining about how much this girl and the guy bugs you on a forum.
Changing the dynamic of the relationship does not require a reason why - the purpose is to get her to think about what she may have done wrong.

The action of not being afraid to change the dynamic is reason enough. Nobody said to ignore the girl or freeze her out; just SHOW her you won't take nonsense.

Wal: to some extent I see where you are coming from. Yeah, tell her what bothers you, then if her behavior doesn't alter then dump her - but for me that only satisfies the man's own logical mind, almost saying 'well, i did give her a chance'.
This just clouds and puts off any decisive action, and provides a 'comfort layer' of extra rationalisation that doesn't need to be there.

Where I'm coming from is this:

You have to set your stall out accordingly. In this instance the OP wanted a scenario where 'WHEN WE ARE TOGETHER = WE ARE TOGETHER'
That's cool, but it's this statement that is causing all the friction - if the OP wasn't of this mindset then I doubt he would be bothered about his girl making a beeline for this other dude.

Now, there's an argument that says the OP should have made this clear in the early stages of the relationship - as he says she is fine in other situations.
Early on would have been the perfect point to verbalise this, simply: 'Hey, you know what I like about us? - when we are together, we are TOGETHER - that's pretty cool'

This hasn't happened, his stall is not set out as he would like it to be = the girl perceives it as ok to chase this guy around.

If he says something about it NOW, it appears reactionary, insecure, possessive and a negative change in the relationship dynamic - she will think 'why does this bother him? How long has it bothered him? Why hasn't he said anything about this before? He's changed'
Working back from this position is gonna be tough and as stated in my earlier post, just gives her ammo for when she gets the hump with him.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but this is very much a great example of maintaining the frame you wish to maintain from the very start.

Let's not forget though: she is not a dumbass - she KNOWS that chasing another guy around in the presence of her beau is fucked up. Is it a shit test? Is it just blatant disrespect?
Either way it is not behavior worthy of rational discussion - either the OP is truly cool with it and as such doesn't need to bring it up, or he's not so action must be taken.

The problem with small potatoes is that over time they flourish into fuck off fields of potatoes, far better to bring the rain on a molehill than try it when it becomes a mountain.