So was at this party last night playing my sober game, was acting alhpa and social ,low and behold i had kino from 6 differnet girls all with varying degrees of IOI's

but that aside theres this one HB 8 who i kinda new, i heard a story of how shed slept with this guy on new years and got caught so i strode up to her and go hey HB8 so i heard this story about you blah blah her first response was delight i new her name to oh no im so not like that rah rah rah im a good person see i hang out with guys like lauchlan who i imediately befriended fooled her with a story how we were great friends from kindergarten then told her i was joking got a laugh and disarmed the guy

Now for the advice, she goes "you know im not like that?" i was caught between two choices.

1. i entertained the idea that i could go with this "hey dont worry i understand i know you have needs too, everyone enjoys sex its just you girls get a rough time time for sleeping with a guy when a guy gets cred for doing the same thing with girls geez why cant people just understand its sex, we both enjoy it whats the big deal eh i just think its natural and dont hold a worse opinion of ya" come from the angle of someone who understands the enjoyment of sex on both sides and understands that its suppressed by societys views but i know she enjoys it just as much.

do you think this angle would come across as understanding exactly what she feels while demonstrating HV because your comfortble talking about sex as not a given by woman but something to be enjoyed and implies due to this understanding you could be discreet as you know the obstacles shes against when tempted to enjoy herself and to have this knowledge you must understand how to pleasure a woman.

i went with well i dont even really know you do i? "actually thats true" i then walked off implying that her beauty dosnt instantly hold with me i need to know she has a good personality for attraction and maybe plant that seed of "hey i should let this guy get to know me hes not taken just by beauty like every other guy."

But in conclusion what do you think of this angle to take with girls you know have slept with guys on one night stands? anyone field tested it? results good......bad?

because i know a couple girls who have done this and mid game you could bust out sooo i heard a rumor about Hb and so and so to which shel put up the anti slut defence no no no im not like that at which point if you took this angle it could cause a major spike in attraction demonsrating you understand women and there suppressed need for sexual pleasure just as much as you implying you can give this to them and thus DHV massively?

Thoughts?

When she said, "you know I'm not like that?" Exactly HOW did she say it.

Was it said in a normal tone of voice, or was it said in a voice that conveyed
nervousness that you do in fact "think" she is like that?

If it was said in a normal tone of voice like, "yeah, that's my dog"... then,
she is not interested in you sexually.

If it was said in the nervous, (I hope he don't think I am like that) voice...
then she does like you, and don't want you to think she is a slut. She likes
you, and is open to getting to know you more.

Hell, if it was at a party, and there were other friends of hers there, female
friends... then she might have been putting on an act in front of them. In
order to see if she is in fact "like that" (slut), you need to find a way to
isolate this girl and see if she is just "all talk" or if she is in fact, one of
those "closet sluts."

Closet Slut = I am not a slut in front of my friends and big groups. But, if
you get me alone... I will rock your world.

_________________
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Thanks man, your on my train of thought it was definately said in a nervous defensive manner if you will, (the i hope he dosnt think im a slut) tone.

so i definitely will isolate and see how it goes the fact her friend is very into me may not help...but if shes isolated the friend isnt there is she hahaha

thanks for the input anything in regards to taking the angle of "i unsderstand your desires and the reason theyre suppresses but sex is to be enjoyed"?

You might have burned it with this one. I would say its damage control at this point.

First, dont ever directly comfront a girl about a story/rumor going around about her sexual exploits, unless you know for certain the girl is an exhibitionist at heart and not at all shy about her sexuality.
Especially do not do this as your opener, if you really need to bring it up, do it when you have established a lot of rapport and are well into the comfort stages.

Women treasure confidence and discretion when it comes to their sex lives. This is a fundamental part of their "anti-slut device." The fact that she sounded nervous doesnt at all mean that she likes you (tho she might), it means you stepped on her toes about something that is embarassing for her and is unfortunately making the rounds, and now she is worried about "what everybody is thinking/saying about her" and "if people think she is a slut now." I'd put the odds at about 1000 to one for this, without ever meeting her, even if she is a so-called "closet slut." The name itself implies discretion, doesn't it?

At this point, since you stepped in it, option 1 was the best. Laugh it off, build rapport, identify with her and get her to identify with you. But dont overfocus on it, as soon as she seems a tiny bit more comfortable, drop it and change the subject!! Preferably to something funny and light that doesnt put her place in society in the spotlight.

Ok but you took option two, alienating yourself from her with "I dont even know you do I?" which can imply all sorts of negative things, like "I take a moral objection to your actions" or "I thought you were a better girl than that," or simply, "Why am I talking to you about this personal matter, we are not close and I had no right to bring it up." She agreed, and then you ...walk off?

The trick about "implied messages" is that there are so many different paths another mind can and will take. She cannot read your mind. Without really direct verbal cues, there is no way in hell she is going to jump to a complex conclusion that "Her beauty alone is not enough to hold your interest, but you still like her" especially when taken with all the other context you provided.

What you did was seriously neg the shit out her. You confronted her about an embarassing situation, yanked her down a few points, then brought up the fact that you dont even have the right to talk to her about that, pulling her down another notch or two, and then you walk off, which is really a killing blow. She is feeling pretty damn low after an encounter like this.

You should be trying to find ways to DHV her now, and bring her up and make her feel better about herself. You should probably DLV yourself as well a bit when doing it, as you've put yourself up on a pedastal compared to her, so to speak. An apology would be a good start, as well as an explanation as to what you were really thinking, but then, I usually take the honest approach with women. Follow it up with something more positive (changing the subject once again) so you dont permanently DLV yourself to her; people who get trampled on can be quick to make a polar switch of value with you if you give them the opportunity. Hopefully if you have any charm and she trusts you, you will be able to swing the whole into a DHV situation for the both of you, and go from there.

Learning from a bad experience and moving forward -->changing a DLV into a DHV. People are usually very happy to make this trade. Just, as before, do it quickly and change the subject without focusing on it too much.

What in the hell are you talking about? Talk "her" up? Why? He put himself
up on a pedestal? Of course he put himself up there, he is not the one
who needs to "qualify" himself to this chick. She should (and was) qualifying
herself to him. You "never" want to give your power to a chick. Once you
give her your power, your "alpha male power" if you will, then all hope is
lost for you to lay this girl.
Never apologize for your actions. Do the most powerful men apologize?
Nope. You are in control and make no excuses for your actions.

_________________
| NLP eBooks etc | SEDUCTION eBooks etc |
| Sexual Decoder System (Yes, that one) **PDFs / Videos** |
I have reviewed A LOT of PUA books, videos, etc. I only upload the ones that have the best information.

What do I know. Ive only scored several hundred girls, been married at an extremely young age (looong story, involves romance, young love, and international immigration laws), and am generally seen by my friends and colleagues as the man to go to when it comes to getting the girl.

Being a mPUA doesnt mean to be an asshole. You really should leave a girl better off for having met you than when you first found her. That shit gets around. As well, if you are a rude prick who ignores common social cues and boundaries, you simply arent going to get very far with women. I am not talking about being an AFC chump, or anything like that. But there are still things you do and do not do. One of the things you should avoid is putting your foot square in your mouth and trampling all over somebody's emotions.

Women are very observant over these things; they put an extremely high value on it and it is a massive DLV if you show her a total lack of social grace.

So yeah, if you think you never should apologize, well, you got another thing coming, pal. Apologizing when you clearly made a mistake takes balls. It takes intelligence as well, to realize you have made the mistake. Of course, it's a lot easier to just not make those mistakes in the first place, but then there probably wouldnt be a lot of people asking for help on these forums, would there?

This guy, imho, made some pretty serious blunders with this girl, tho it is hard to tell from a short post without being there, but I am pretty damn sure. I am also sure that if she has any sense of self worth or confidence, as most decent girls do, then she isnt going to be hopping all over him next time he isolates her and tries to figure out if she is "really just a closet slut" as you so eloquently put it.

Yes, he could sarge her straight down to nothing, apologize for nothing, maybe if she is really weak he could even fuck her. Why bother? Why not just toss some rohipnol in her drink? It would be the same result afterwards. Massive resentment and buyers remorse, no chance for anything more than a one nighter (and a small chance at that). And she would probably tell her friends what a magnanimous prick he is. So scratch her friends off the to-do list as well.

As for the qualifying, she was forced into it directly by the bluntness of his approach. Almost any girl is going to do this, it hardly gets you any kind of score points if you push her into this kind of automatic defensive posture. The trick is to use finese, subtlety, to get the girl to qualify when she really doesnt need to. Now if she had been extremely high value, she would have told him to fuck off. But this girl is just a normal nice person, and he stomped her, and as well he burned his recovery by alienating himself and then breaking contact off.

If what he did was so "the right way" to do it, why didnt she qualify herself when it really mattered, at the end, when he unfortunately offered up the point that they had nothing in common? If there was ANY semblance of attraction here at this point, she would have argued against him. "Oh thats not true, we both blah blah blah." But she didn't, did she? She agreed and let him walk away. Doesn't seem like his game was working all that well, does it? Or do you somehow score girls by getting them to not talk to you at all? Would love to hear your secrets...

I won't apologize for my advice, I stand by every word of it. If a man has true power over the social situation, he can manipulate his value up and down as he needs to, and more importantly he can effect and manipulate the value and the feelings of those around him, hopefully to the benefit of everyone involved.. Its subtlety. Its finese. He would never worry about "losing his power forever" once he takes a humble step downwards from time to time. He isnt fucking Samson, castrated by some magic haircut. A real man has true control over the situation, and he can and will prove it without hiding behind a wall of denial.

Sorry im going to have to go with daggaz on this one from my experience with females they do appreciate a man who has the intelligence and balls to apologize, on reflection i did make a faux pas in terms of social rules it was a bit blunt, i did think about it as a type of neg but then i didnt follow it up appropriately, there was after the phrase "i dont even know you' what i believe was a window of oppertunity. There was definitely a moment a pause, as if she expected something more i shouldve gone with "well how about we change that come over to the couch and have a chat".

more rapport was needed before gracing that paticular subject and because of that taking her down a few pegs conciously or even sub conciously i dont think shel hold me that high. but later on in a club she came over and said hello as i was leaving and gave me a hug, so with a bit of damage control i think it is salvagable, apology joke about it chabge of subject cool.

thanks for the input guys

on another note,, say you do have good rapport what is the effect of talking about sex from the angle mentioned in the post? any experience?

If she came up to you as you were leaving and gave you a hug etc, that is a huge IOI and the damage done isnt nearly as bad as it may first have seemed. She is certainly attracted to you, and yeah if you play the cool guy on this one, you will score some easy points.

As well, you should be able to turn it right away into a fun conversation about sex... In this case you will emotionally spike it as well, for extra bonus. It starts by the honest talk. She will have a dip in emotions, not necessarily outright bad, but the point is you are making her feel something. In this case, perhaps a little negative awareness about the whole thing.. Then you quickly flip the conversation (your first idea was perfect, and will work here too) and get her to feel really positive about the whole thing. Get her to laugh, get her to think about sex, get her a tiny bit horny... Now she is connecting you to these emotional switches, and thats a good thing. You are no longer some boring guy, you make her feel like a living human being.

My experience with sex talk with girls is that they usually love to be able to talk openly about sex with a guy, they just need it to be initiated in the correct manner. Hitting them up with sudden dirty talk when its innapropriate? Bad. Having the conversation start naturally (as in this case) and honestly, escalating into more of a direct Q+A almost like girls doing pillow talk amongst themselves? Really, really, really good.

So you judge her reactions and joke around a bit and if she keeps smiling and giggling, blushing even better, and most importantly keeps the conversation going, then keep on escalating. Dont forget to keep eye contact and to kino her when you do this. Girls really respond well to physical contact, especially when talking about such personal and physical things.

A good tip is to start it out by talking about "other people" and making commentary about "how they think" or "why do people do this or that or act in such and such a manner." Focus more on the social side of sex than the physical act. Then relate yourself to it, "I think this" or "I would never do that (deny a negative, not a positive)." Next get her to relate, by asking her opinion or what she likes/dislikes..

Depends on the girl and the situation, but you can often get them talking about some pretty intimate things within the first ten minutes of conversation!

That is fantastic advice my friend, geez its the first time ive given it a go for posting for advice and yourve been a huge help for this situation and id say many more in the future.

cheers

Cheers man, let us know how it goes.