I agree with most of what you've posted, but this is where I call bullshit, lol.

If you're really into a girl, more than she is you, for weeks/months, and you ask for a relationship, you're going to get bounced like all the other needy guys she's bounced.

And they won't chase.


I had this talk with two women the other night. The worst mistake a man can make (because 90% of men make it) is to not be a challenge early on, or to at least have some level of indifference.

This is the courtship ritual. It is science. It has nothing to do with "expressing needs" and everything to do with core level mutual attraction.

No, she doesn't.

She just dumped you, LOL.

Read what you're writing.

Why would you say that when she already dumped you for being needy?

This is true.
Disagree. I like having hot, naked women in my bed. I like seeing a great, young ass walk away from my bed in the morning.

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Well that's because you're busy focusing on if she says no. If she does you have to move on... you're being toxic to yourself if you're not being congruent. You're not being you and you're cheating yourself. This is what I'm saying, playing games is fucking you over. It's creating a shitty relationship from the start.

I'm going to say this as a guy who had a girl dumped me and shattered my fucking heart. THANK GOD SHE DID THAT FOR ME! A chick that isn't into the authentic you isn't actually into you... she's into some facade you put on and thus the relationship isn't going to work out. My life is so much better because I'm NOT with her and I would have done anything to get her back. So we can sit here and say well lying is the way to go to start a relationship or we can be straight, if it's not right for her, if she's not into it, it won't be right for you.

If she doesn't chase you, then you were wasting your time trying to get a relationship from someone who doesn't want one. This is just feminine in nature... RIGHT BACK TO WHERE WE STARTED.

what does intimacy have to do with fucking? Just because I said I'm off doing my thing doesn't mean I don't have naked women in my bed weekly.


Intimacy is laying in bed holding a woman... staring into her eyes.

Sex is sex... there is sexual intimacy and there is intimacy.

Edit: Just because you asked for a relationship doesn't mean you're being needy. If she does she does if not you move on... THAT'S the difference between needily waiting to hope a relationship starts or simply accepting she doesn't what you do... so be it. MOVE THE FUCK ON or you're punishing yourself stupidly over and over again.

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LMAO...come on Arch. You preach shocking honesty and outcome independence in order for a guy to be dominate. Now you have a guy here saying something to a woman that is shockingly honest and outcome independent but you're against it.

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Thank god someone else noticed that shit! LMAO...

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Yes. Because if a man is asking for a relationship first, he's not behaving in a dominant way in other aspects of the courtship.

If he's truly dominant, he's great in bed and fit...the woman will always bring up exclusivity first out of fear of losing him, because he's pretty freaking mind-blowing.

The first person to ask for an exclusive relationship is indeed the first person who is fearful of outcome.

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If a man has to ask a girl to be in an exclusive relationship, it means he's not doing all the dominant, high-value things he could be to get her to initiate the "exclusive talk" early, and first.

It's a red flag, a reminder for a need of self-improvement on the man's part. A woman in her feminine, who is happy, and having great orgasms and passionate sex with a driven and emotionally-centered man will be on the exclusive talk rather quickly.

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If he's truly dominant, he's great in bed and fit...would it matter who brought it up first? I'm not arguing against who brings up what first here because I don't necessarily agree or disagree with either points of view. What I disagree with is the logic. If a girl is afraid to lose you, what would it matter when it came to who brought anything up first?

I believe more in the consistency in how you present yourself. If you're a guy that has been straight up with what you want with a woman, the moment that you bring up relationship isn't going to be seen as not being dominant or unattractive. If you are a guy that's "let her chase" and then after sex start talking relationship then that will likely come across as unattractive. If you're a guy that has shown that has done most of the pursuit, not seeing any other women, expresses dislike of her seeing other men then she's going to see that as unattractive because you're not pulling the trigger.

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Because a dominant male who is fit, good in bed, and emotionally centered is going to be focused on his career. The girl, her mind blown by passion and great sex, and in her feminine will come at him with "let's talk", and thus mention exclusivity.


A man who is doing all the right things won't go chasing girls around for relationships. Sex is not rare for him. He has 9's and 10's on his phone. It;s simply NOT something on his mind enough to force the talk. He has the patience, and the abundance mentality to let things unfold organically with women.

That's nice.

Saying "I want a relationship" right away with women, and harping at is why this freaking forum was created, lol.


It's needy, emotionally-uncentered behavior that conveys a lack of options. This will work great with obese 5's, though.

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You're making a statement that doesn't explain why it matters and more of just your individual belief system. The same guy who is fit, good in bed, and emotionally centered that's focused on his career would still be the same guy blowing her mind regardless of who asked for the relationship first. Again, why would it matter? A woman isn't going to run from him if he brings it up first if her mind is already blown.

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If her mind is blown, she would've already had the exclusive talk with you. You wouldn't have to ask.

This is why women do most of the dumping.

Men are extremely visual. They see a hot woman, and they think marriage, kids, etc. Women take longer to fall in love.

a man who has the abundance mentality of a 9/10 woman is going to be very, very enticing. Because he has the emotional-centerdness, and the patience to let the woman's feelings develop organically.

The pushing for exclusivity, the corralling, the desire to secure a woman based out of fear, over-contact, possessiveness, anger....these are why this forum exists.

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BLA BLA BLA

Your game is artificial... it's you acting a certain way so you can fuck women. Get over dog. Your game isn't you just being you and doing you, while escalating yours is... OMG I hope she is ok with what I said.

When you go to a relationship if you change your game she'll get over you, again I speak from experience. If you stop flirting and doing the same shit you did to start fucking her, she's going to want to fuck other guys.

The reality me saying "hey I like you, you're a cool chick, lets see where this goes." is not needy, what is needy is me standing outside her window with a boombox proclaiming my love... what's needy is me holding back the truth and reality so that I can stay in the power in the relationship because the reality is you're powerless over yourself, your life and your emotions... so I can have her temporary validation so a relationship might happen.

What's needy is me moping around and holding back because I'm worried how she might take shit. It means you need her approval. Me letting words come out and saying fuck it this is how I feel is being a man and not playing chicken shit games.

You've basically revealed to everyone in this thread that you're game isn't as good as you are saying it is. You said just be honest now you're saying, lie to yourself, lie to the girl, just play it cool!

Another needy thing is manipulating the emotion so that you can say it's chill I don't feel that way so you can keep a chick. It's stupid and you not being you to the max... this is the problem you keep missing I'm asking people to be themselves purely and to make the most of themselves you're asking them to lie and try and basically do a version of mystery method for relationships, it's ridiculous.

You're lecturing on abundance here and that is fucking ironic... YOU don't practice abundant mentality. You just stated at the top of this page that sometimes you like a girl a lot... yeah sometimes you do I've had one-itis over 10 times it's whatever bro. GET THE FUCK OVER IT! I'm speaking from experience you're speaking from fear of losing a chick like there ain't another 4 billion in the world.

See I think the big difference is I'm speaking from the standpoint of TOTAL fucking security.

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Another thing... this whole horse shit of 9s and 10s... I'VE NEVER seen a guy who fucked a shit load of women rate women like that shit.

You know how they do it? Damn she's sexy I'd fuck that.

Pretty simple either you want to fuck a girl or you don't... there is no rating bull shit. It's a simple binary YAY or NAY. Yeah some girls are sexier than others... but while you're rating them, we're fucking em.

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The rating is to help establish context for the sake of discussion. most guys have a problem with alcohol ,so by the end of the night they end up fucking fat girls. So "I'd fuck that" can change from a twelve pack night of MGD to something completely different while sober at lunch.

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Only if you suck in bed and are fat. Otherwise, they'll be back sooner rather than later.

Aren't you asking for her approval when you ask her to be exclusive?


Later in the game. Early on, it's needy and will get you dumped.

This entire forum, lol, is about people CHANGING themselves, not BEING themselves. We have desperate, sad, pathetic guys here who spew their feelings to women, demand relationships and over-contact them by acting on their emotions. They do that, lose the girl, then come here.


"Be yourself" is bullshit. It's IMPROVE yourself. Understand how women work. Get fit. Stop watching fucking TV and put down the video game controller and start acting like a man.

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Arch...since you are avoiding answering my question and pretty much sidestepping it by throwing theories out, I'm going to ask a different way using you as an example(I know you hate it that I quote you but just humor me for a moment):

January last year, you said this about your current girlfriend: The next month, you said this: You knew that you could have her in a relationship and you admitted a month earlier that you wanted her in a relationship. She even told you that she'd do whatever you want her to do for you. With everything that you knew about her and knowing that "she's already there", how would it have hurt you to say that you wanted a relationship? Her mind was already blown.

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