Good to know
I tend to think that I am the one doing something wrong when I find myself talking too a girl who is uninterested and giving me one-word-answers. I never know whether it's me or her.Is it wrong to try to 'force it' and best to just accept VERY early on in the conversation that she is not into you, as opposed to trying to 'turn her around'?

Since you mention sense of humour, are you saying that you always open with something comical as opposed to a simple 'Hey' or whatever? Do you often use the same opener?

I know it's very amateur to get caught up in the opener, but in my case, as stated, there appears to be a fairly clear pattern between how I open, and how the interaction unfolds therafter.


I do think my looks/height are a factor. I simply can't ignore what I see on nights out with my own eyes when my more handsome friends have girls throwing themselves at them who get results with seemingly zero game. But, yeah. Short of plastic surgery, there's not much I can do about that so I try not to dwell on it!

And yes, I do obsess over what to say. Partly because i've posted field reports on other forums before and people will say that I bored the girl and asked the 'wrong' questions etc. but them same people never tell me what I SHOULD ask/say after the open in order to stand out and be fun, so it became a bit of an obsessive thought. I still don't really know. What I would say, is that I've seen some FULL infields from various PUA's and they all appear to ask teh boring questions that everyone tells me not to ask after they open (where yuo from, age, name, what do you do, bla bla bla)

Sometimes it's you, other times it might be her. Either way, the horse is dead and kicking it further is a waste of time. Learn from obvious mistakes but don't lose sleep over some random girl being non receptive.
Work with receptive / neutral girls.

It depends on my mood and setting. If I'm approaching during the day I'll likely stick to a simple "Hey, you're cute and I want to talk to you".
If it's night, I will almost always use a fun opener. A faster paced dynamic means a different premise for conversation.

Save for online, I try to never use the same opener twice on a night out. It forces creativity & improv.

Sure, but that pattern has little to do with the choice of words, and a lot to do with the emotion inspired.
They are a factor. Looks matter, contrary to what many of this community will try to advocate. Yet you'd be surprised what a difference something as simple as a good haircut (to fit your head shape/face), fitting clothes and a gym membership will accomplish.
Improve what you can, accept what you can't. A well dressed/well groomed guy's attractiveness will skyrocket compared to the same man that pays little care to his outlook.
Yes, there are do's and don'ts but these are not rules, they are guidelines. Words are a tool for delivering a message. They are always contrasted by the person behind them.
Ask the same "Where are you from?" with a seductive undertone/cheeky smile and implicative eye contact, and then ask it with a nervous undertone, a forced smile and avoiding eye contact.
You will get two vastly different results.
That's called subcommunication. It's also why you often times hear that it's not about what you say - but how you say it. And how you say it is directly influence by who you are. That means your confidence, your comfort levels, your attitude & personality.

Now the reason you *should* open with something similar to your first interaction is because of the novelty. It's also light, playful and fun. And that's what your subcommunicating. Which means she can focus on enjoying the moment and be more open to you, instead of being up in her head wondering if you're another guy that she needs to bear for however long it takes for him to get the hint.

Regardless of how you open, you must tease. You must flirt. You have to present yourself in a sexual light. And that's probably what you're not doing.

_________________
I know my place. It's me on top of the world.

My in depth texting & dating guide.
There's no such thing as shit-tests.
How to keep a girl.

Thanks, RC.

So going forward, at least for the next 20 approaches or so (night game), I think i'll experiment and ALWAYS open with some sort of self amusing opener. Maybe canned or improvised (since, for whatever reason, I can rarely get any interest if I open with something simple/normal like 'hey, how's your night going?' like other guys seem to be able to do with success)

Thinking about, I guess them guys must have some good 'after open' line that is able to hook the girl fast after the open. But then I fall into the trap, as you say, of worrying about 'what to say' too much, so i'll open with something self amusing, and then just say what comes to mind (proably questions about what she's up too, her age, etc etc and then, if she hasn't disappeared, I can find out about her hobbies and try to get an idea of what sort of person she is etc)

Unfortunately wasn't able to go out friday or Saturday night just gone as i've been sick since just before Chirstmas day! Longest flu/cough i've ever had! It's relentless.

Hoping to book a weekend to Poland or Hungary soon, though fro some cheap beer, and girl watching!

still coughing non-stop like i've got the black lung, but hoping to head out tonight.

So with the intention of making every opener something 'fun' as an experiment as mentioned before, anyone have any interesting openers. Short? Maybe roleplay? I tend to just go to pubs so it's not some crazy club environment. After teh pubs, I usually go too a bar that has a small dancefloor where it seems to be more about non-verbal game, although if you open girls away from the dancefloor, then it's more like being in a pub, I guess.

Other than my fake tinder date opener, not sure what i'll open with...

I'd suggest if you feel pressure for conversations, spend a couple of nights just having fun. I mean go out, forget "approaching" and talk to people. Guys or girls. You'll get into fun conversations and will help with the pressure.

I feel as though I actually had a good shot at achieving my goal last night. I hope I get another shot this year otherwise i'll regret my decision.

Anyway, here's the story.

Went to a different town last night.
Immediately different, less hostile vibe in terms of the girls. It's a posher town.

I know people say you shouldn't blame your logistics etc, but I live in a rough area and It often seems like if you aren't 6ft plus and haven't got a skinhead and neck tattoos and an extensive criminal record, then girls dismiss you quickly or feel entitled to be rude. They aren't like that with intimidating looking guys, though.

Anyway, in the first bar there was LOTS of beautiful young girls everywhere. I had bad AA, although, once again, I was able to notice that the source of it was more 'my friends' as opposed to 'the girls'. I fear them watching me get rejected more than the girls rejecting me! I don't approach. Feels bad. Did I mention that there were 8's/9's everywhere!?


Next bar//
My friends are all outside smoking and there's a hot girl near me close to the bar. I open her:
''Hey, you! I need your help''
''What's up?''
''Where's good to go In this 2-horse town? I'm not from around here''
She laughs.
She asks me where i'm from and stuff and I kino her a little bit immediately. She asks my name and I tell her that I can' tell her because I don't want her stalking me on facebook. She seems to find this hilarious and is kinoing me. Then she tells me that she's married but that she's got some cute friends that are single. I tell her that she's the only one for me and hug her. She's super giggly. My friends come back in from their smoke and tell me they want to go too a different bar. I say goodbye to the girl.

next bar//
It feels like them sort of bars you see on PUA vids in Eastern Europe. once again, my friends don't want too approach, I see a gorgeous blonde girl with wavy hair sitting down and she's glued too her phone.
I open her.
''Hey! It's a great app, isn't it!?''
''What is?!!''
''Tinder!! I saw you swiping away. You can't fool me!''
''haha!! No!! shows me her phone and she's messaging her boyfriend
Pretty much a lost cause but we chat briefly. I tell her she's cute and that's why I approached her and she lights up. Genuinely pleased. She asks me questions and says that i'm cute and that she's flattered. I guess I left her better than when I met her which is better than nothing. I go back to my friends.

next bar//
My friend is at the bar getting served and there's 2 girls near him. THEY kind of open HIM (he's pretty handsome and married. The rich get richer!! Smile).
One is fairly pretty but is a little bit fat. Like, not actually 'fat', but certainly not skinny. Fairly pretty face though, which I like. The other isn't my type at all.
I open the prettier, fatter one.
''Hi! Are you being nice to my friend??''
''No! We're being mean to him''
''I've met girls like you before. Bullies!''
We kind of hit it off immediately and they follow us back to our part of the bar where me and my friends were prior. We branch off. The girl in the glasses is talking to my other AFC mates, and i'm flirting with the prettier (yet fatter) one.
She's asking me lots of questions. I accuse her of flirting with me and fancying me.
She plays along and sort of roleplays? ''Yeah, I think you'er amazing!''
I say ''Tell me the 3 things that you like so much about me'' (i'm just being a dick, pretending that I love myself and putting her under pressure like i'm interviewing her)
She tells me that she thinks i'm smart and a few other things.
I'm kinoing her a fair bit now. Unsure how to gage her since she isn't touching me back at all, although she hasn't left (which RSDMax says is the biggest IOI)

It's late and we all leave together, I assume to get a cab (remember we're away from out town) but than the girl with glasses mentions that she has some drinks at her place. (these 2 girls live together)
I'm walking with the prettier one. We are laughing and talking and we slightly 'fall back' from the rest of the group.

I go for the kiss. Denied!!! (she pulls away and turns her head)

I made it a resolution to be more brave in terms of going for the kiss so that I don't wake up with regrets. To be honest, It wasn't that bad. I just laughed it off and then started talking about something else that made her laugh whilst also kind of touching her and pushing her away from me in a playful manner.

We get back to their place and i'm sitting on the couch, flirting with my girl and the other girl is kinod of sitting on her own and my friends are all just sitting around not doing much, and almost immediately they talk about getting a cab home.
There's no way I can afford a cab home on my own.
They all leave the room to do something (I forget what) and the girl asks me if I'm staying or going. She's basically asking me to stay. I tell her i'm not sure.

I go for the kiss again. Success. We kiss for a bit and it's nice.

I let down my fellow posters here as I end up leaving with my friends.

I feel it was basically 'in the bag' but between the skinful of alcohol, the fact that she wasn't completely my type, and the fact that I didn't want to be stranded out of town and pay a fortune to get home on my own meant that I decided to turn down the 80%+ possibility of sex and share a cheap cab with my friends.

THOUGHTS:
I failed to implement my 'always open in a funny/roleplay type way'. I almost forgot about it in the heat of the moment.
Fairly successful overall compared to usual in terms of zero bad reactions to my approaches. However, I can't pat myself on the back too much as i'm certain it's down to location.
I wish I could remember more of exactly what I said in the interactions since it was all positive last night.

It's weird how sitting here now I kind of can't imagine being able to sustain a long conversation with a stranger and don't know what to say, but in the moment, It seemed fairly easy last night. I just remember lots of talking/flirting/and laughing on the girls part.

Good.
Never do anything out of hunger. Not even eating.

I see some improvements here. Keep at it.

_________________
I know my place. It's me on top of the world.

My in depth texting & dating guide.
There's no such thing as shit-tests.
How to keep a girl.

Jumping in Midway to this for a couple of observations.

1) "it's not your looks, it's your look." C'mon man this is like one of the things you learn on day 1. Do you know how many non-model looking guys are getting laid? Well obviously it's millions based on the sheer population of the planet. You would be shocked at the number and types of guys who come into my clinic for STD testing.. half the time I think "how the hell are you getting laid?" Stop with the "I'm not a hunk" thing. If we were all hunks none of us would be wasting our time here. Thank heavens women are better than us men and are able to look past our looks! Focus on your look. Nice clothes and grooming are KEY! "Every girls crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man" as the song goes. Pretty sure it was David D'Angelo who talks about the science of seduction and that on a primal level women are attracted to men who take care of themselves and dress nice as it means he can take care of her too.

2) Your goal seems to be just one night stands with random women. If so you are limiting yourself big time. That's the hardest achievement in pickup and it's going to be a lot less successful on its own. I've got to ask why is that your focus? In my opinion one night stands are the icing on top of the cake, a little extra spice on top of the bread and butter of all the other ways of meeting and dating girls. Are you putting yourself in the place of the women you hit on? Remember random sex with a stranger is inherently a dangerous situation for women - they risk violence, rape, pregnancy, and STDs. What are you offering them in terms of risk vs reward? Do you know why a stranger would be willing to risk all of that so you can get laid?

3) Get back to basics! It seems you've gone so overboard in terms of opening you've lost sight of everything else. In the examples you gave, where's the demonstrating higher value? Where's the confidence? Where's the fun? What separates you from the dozens of other guys that's gonna hit on a girl that night. From the hundreds that have hit on her this year, or the thousands that have hit on her over her lifetime?

You seem like you're trying, you are going through the motions and putting in time at the bar. But it seems so robotic, so cold, and so uninspired. Where's the attraction? Where's the spark, the pop, the flash, the excitement? You're working to be a pick up artist, right? Then stop being a robot and start being an ARTIST!

Yes, my goal is a one night stand(s). I don't want a girlfriend. I'm not sure what you are actually suggesting? you mean dating on tinder as opposed to approaching strangers in person? Or do you mean trying to bang girls from work or something? (I work in a factory with all men, so that's a no-go)

Again, i'm not sure what you are suggesting? DHV by telling stories about how cool I am you mean? (modern literature doesn't see to recommend this). And I obviously DO try to project confidence in terms of actually approaching girl and in my body language etc.

Maybe you can add some tangible 'meat to the bone' and offer some examples and stuff? I appreciate taking the time to post, but I read your post a few times and am not much-the-wiser in terms of TANGIBLE advice, I'm afraid. How to build attraction and spark as you suggest? How to start being an 'artist' for example? Maybe post some brief FR's (opening and attraction) (don't worry about the whole thing) in script form?

cheers

Just a few quick Links I found on DHV which I feel are accurate. Some examples too.

http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2014/07/h ... ate-value/

http://www.seductionbase.com/seduction/ ... V/281.html

Since you mentioned you are going just for one night stands, value is going to be even more crucial for you. Might even be the #1 reason you aren't having success. From the insights you've posted about what you feel you look like and your chances of success before you even try, I suspect that is showing through on a subconscious level and girls are picking up on it.

As I said before there are lot of risks for girls when it comes to random sex with strangers. You're going to have to DHV, build comfort, push pull, escalate, isolate, all within a realtively short time and still close the deal, and there are so many spots along the way that it can get messed up. You've got to tap into that place where she puts aside all those risks and realizes that the reward for sleeping with you minutes to hours after you've met outweighs all those risks. No small feat.

Again put yourself in her place. What kind of guy is going to inspire her to risk possible STDs, pregnancy, and violence for sex? She has to get something out of it. Is it the validation and self esteem boost for sleeping with a guy with higher value than her? Is it because you've attracted her in a way she doesn't want to let you get away? Often times when women have one night stands it's because they are feeding their ego, trying to make themselves feel better about themselves, or increase their self worth. They may want their friends and the rest of the girls at the club to envy them. They aren't going to do that by sleeping with someone they perceive as being lower value. They want to say to themselves that they got the hottest guy or the funnest guy or the guy every hot girl was laughing and having fun with. That's why DHV works. It's not because you told a story. It's because every hot girl in the club is lined up to get her palm read by you or keeps pulling you to dance and you turn them down. Imagine how that one girl who's been watching that all night feels when you turn to her and tell her you're taking her home that night. That's Value. That's what you have to create around you. Not only an air of confidence, but an air of everyone wanting to be around you and having your attention. Of every girl wanting to be the one you're talking to and flirting with and in the end, the one you're taking home.

thanks for the links.

Yeah, I mean obviously it'd be great if all the girls in the club were all fighting over you, but i'm not sure that realistic or even required. I know people who have one-night stands and I've seen them in action. They don't tend to have girls all fighting over him. You make it sound more complicated/difficult than they make it look.

Similarly with some infields I recently watched from the 'paid/subscription' side of 'simplepickup'. Some of their one night stands pulls were fast and boring! (certainly no palm reading and magic tricks and no other girls fighting for his attention)

And you still haven't told me what you are suggesting in lieu of aiming for one night stands in bars. What do you consider the 'easier route'?

thanks

Again you just need to find what works for you. Sounds like what you're doing isn't working to your satisfaction so why not try something new? Sure, eventually everyone is going to "get lucky" and pick up that one girl in that one moment and not really have to try. Some guys are just naturals and seems like it's effortless to get girls. But that's not what this is about. This is about repeatable, sustainable results over long term for "the rest of us".

There's no one answer that yields those kind of results. Not one line you can use or one trick that will make girls constantly jump in bed with you. It's about being the Swiss Army Knife. Having different tools for different situations that results in repeatable success. By not mastering all of them, you're missing opportunities.

Having a group of hot girls gathered around you clammering for your attention isn't unrealistic as to many many guys on here can attest to. And while it isn't necessary, by God it helps! I've seen field reports too... Ones where a guy is surrounded by girls keeping them all entertained, building value and having fun, while dozens of girls in a 50 ft radius watch and try to find out what's going on and how they can be a part of it. Just because you aren't doing it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And what if you could be that guy? How would your success change?

But maybe that isn't you. There are other ways to be successful. Again tailoring this to what works for you is the key. No one can tell you what that is, but we can tell you what you can try and you can see if it works for you.

And the whole one night stand thing. Hey if that's what you want then go for it! Many guys get the rush, the thrill of the challenge and the rewards that come from it. But I personally wouldn't make that my only goal. But this is about you and your goals. Easier and harder are all relative terms. For some guys random hookups are easy. For others, friends with benefits is easy. For yet others, finding girlfriends is easy. And for many more, all of those are hard to near impossible. I personally have experienced way more success with FWB/GF than one night stands because that's my preference. It may not be yours. I found my skill set better equipped for building sexual tension and comfort outside the time restrictive setting of a club or bar. And I found it way more interesting and successful to be working on and juggling a dozen girls at my own pace instead of opening 20 sets a night. Again that's me.

I like the idea of the journal. I think going back and analyzing your successes and trouble spots will be invaluable.

I might be beyond thick and am probably annoying you, but i'm still not entirely sure what you're actually suggesting! DHV'ing more? Doing more 'routine based' stuff like palm reading etc in order to have loads of girls gathering around me?

But you still have to meet these FWB's/GF's in for the first time somewhere. So are you suggesting daygame? Or are you talking about trying to pull girls from work or in your social circle?

thanks. Me too.
Unfortunately, I find analysing 'trouble spots' and 'what went wrong' to be very difficult due to the almost unlimited number of variables. I guess it's part of the reason why people often struggle too improve. I saw a journal on one forum where a guy was at this, day in day out for YEARS AND YEARS - thousands of approaches without a glimmer of success - even in other countries. I hope that won't be me. I'm not young enough to be able to afford that!!

If a girl rejects me, I don't know whether it was my opener, whether I said something too upset her, whether my energy was too high....too low!....maybe I showed too much interest? maybe my body language was unknowingly bad, maybe my approach was 100% perfect but she just thought I wasn't good looking etc etc etc. And then, what works on one girl might turn another girl off. Makes it difficult to analyse results with any sort of scientific basis.

However, I'm told that my most recent approaches/interactions were better, and taht if I can carry on with that 'vibe' then things will get better (based on the views of those who posted too and read my journal. I don't know if you've read all of teh posts)

Regards.

Frustrating few nights.
I tried to carry on the momentum after the 'relative success' in my last field report and was feeling confident and tried to continue with the fun/unfiltered vibe, but nearly all approaches barely got past the open. Classic Brit girls responses who just didn't want to talk to a stranger. I even re-used certain openers that went down in well last week (in a different town) but often times the girls just didn't actually reply.

I tried to practice kind of 'stacking the opener' which is something I recently read about for when the girls just aren't responding after you open, but I was still generally unable to get any kind of hook

One that sticks in my head was in some expensive cocktail bar, and there was this really pretty girl standing next to me. She had on some massive coat with a huge fur hood.
I smiled and said ''Hey! I like your jacket. Makes you look like a Russian Spy!'' (this opener worked well a while back on a friendly girl)
This girl just looked at me, gave about 5% of a smile and then looked away again. I tried to kind of 'plough' on and tried to tease her for copying me because I actually had a fairly similar coat on. Again, she acknowledged me with her facial expression, but still didn't say a word. I kind of gave up at this point. Not sure in hindsight if I should have just started asking her questions about her night or something or whether it would have been pointless. Lots of approaches seemed to go like that.

Need to move to the US!

I was watching a non-pickup vid on youtube where some guy just bikes around California, and it staggers me how friendly people are! They just talk to strangers like it's completely natural.


It just sometimes feels that it's ALL out of my hands, and completely down to how sociable/friendly the girls are. When I have a good interaction, my first instinct is to pat myself on the back and tell myself i'm getting better, but I kind of wonder whether it's always a matter of 'if the girl is friendly, it'll go OK, and if she is shy/rude/doesn't like strangers etc, then there is nothing that ANYONE can do to have a good interaction with these girls''. If I have loads of 'bad' approaches I don't know whether I done something wrong, or whether the girls just happened to be girls that hate talking to strangers. Like, it's easy to pick apart my 'Russian Spy' opener since it bombed and say it was my fault, but then it lead too a long interaction on a different girl a week or so prior.

Hopefully more success next time. Cheers

While I understand what you're saying, I don't necessarily agree that he's "limiting" himself. One night stands are achievable, even for a regular person, once he goes out enough, meets the right people, and has good logistics. I agree that he's some way from doing this consistently, but if that's what he's looking for, there's nothing wrong with it.

I DO agree that in previous times his approach may have been a bit cold, but it seems that this most recent approach was a bit of a breakthrough.