Thanks for stopping by.

Let me first start off by saying I'm asking this question to other pick-up artists. I'm not interested in advice from pick-up bulls or normal guys.

So advice like "f*@$ books go approach bro" or "why do guys always want to complicate things just go say hi and be yourself" is not desired.

I mean, I don't mind if you express your opinion, but why not just save your time and keep it moving into another thread... Nothing better to do?

Yes. I easily approach women. Also, women approach me every time I'm out in public. - and I mean the way women approach men. Making an excuse for a conversation to start and then letting me carry the interaction, or going out of their way to be near me in conversational proximity when there is no reason for them to be that close.

I'm looking for some new nuggets I haven't been exposed to yet so that I can meld new ideas into my own systems. Or see things I already know from slightly different perspectives which always lends itself to innovative ideas.

What's the best book you can suggest. I'm talking if you could only pick 1 thing in the world that you've studied from. Top Dog advanced advice. Or something basic but a strong basic foundation.

Models by Mark Manson

Thanks nr32!

I take it you mean this "Models: Attracting women through honesty" he has another one that says "Models: the subtle art of not giving a fuck".

Hmm... an emotionally based system book. Cool. From what I've seen emotion trumps logic every time so beaing able to set emotional tones will increase your odds tremendously.

I just bought a copy from Amazon. It's only 184 pages so it shouldn't take too long to get through.

It's a good book but no-one here really talks about it.... I wish people would use more examples of how it has worked in their lives.... nr32, have you applied it yet?

It's completely backward from this whole theory of being "alpha," "taking charge," "being a leader," using "canned" lines and "routines" etc, etc.

The advice is to become comfortable with yourself so you don't feel "needy" and you don't need approval from others... the advice is also not to become too invested in any one woman, because this will waste your energy and will also creep her out.... Finally, be willing to present yourself the way you are and risk rejection... be "vulnerable"

If you are rejected, you view rejection as a positive event. it's a filter to keep you away from incompatible women...

The book also advises you to not worry about whether a woman likes you, but instead to worry about whether you like her, her behavior, her values... isn't this more important?

I like it because it encourages you to date women in a way that pleases yourself, rather than trying to impress them or to impress your friends by dating a girl just because of the way she looks...

It also encourages you to give women the benefit of the doubt, and to believe they are doing their best for you... this way you will attract the type of women who truly are good people... if you get conned by a few bad ones, so what, at least you got past them.

If you're kind of a thoughtful guy, you might like it. If you're a meat-head, maybe not...

Yeah Mojo.Dojo.

I started reading the first chapter and I can tell that this is some of that unorthodox against the grain pick-up advice.

From your review it doesn't sound like pick-up advice at all. You just present yourself to the woman for judgement and then allow her to reject you or not, and then simply look at the rejection as a filtering mechanism to keep compatible women in your life long term.

It doesn't sound skillful, but I'll read the book because I may get something out of it anyway.

What do you want from this book? Like, what is your sticking point? You have to be more specific about exactly what you want from this book or would like to improve.

I don't have any sticking points Neo. I know how to have long term relationships, how to date regularly with one night stands, and how to build and manage social circles. Women have wanted to marry me before. Personally, I'll save all of that long term stuff for the mid to late 30s.

I'm just looking to improve in general. Not out of need, but simply because I want to.

You could say my sticking point is - new knowledge.

What's the best book on dating that you know of? I don't mind if I already know 99% of what's in the book that 1% is just gold.

What do the senior members here have to say about Models?

Problem is ... psstt.. psstt... [whispers] problem is, a lot of the "gurus" on here aren't so big on the whole "reading" thing.

Knowledge on what? Sorry thats so vague. If you want overly complicated theories, I'd recommend the Blueprint. But that doesnt mean its good. But you'll get "knowledge" I guess. There are so many aspects of dating I dont know what aspect you're interested in.
Lol. How are you gonna say you wish people gave more examples of how it has worked in their lives...YOU'VE read it, but didnt say how it worked in YOUR life?! If you've read it, say how it has helped YOU.
I havent read it. And no I'm sure many "gurus" here arent big into reading PU stuff, because.... why? Most guys realize most material is a waste of time, and you can better spend that time meeting women or just living your life. I'm sorry, there is the outside wold, dating websites, hobbies, exercise, travel...so much to do in 2016. Is reading every PU book necessary?

I've read a lot of pickup books and most of them are saying the same thing in so many different ways. The majority of them are teaching guys how to pick girls up without sacrificing your ego...which is pretty much what most guys want. Then there are the books, Mode 1 for example, that promotes pickup without worrying about your ego, which most guys wish they could be.

The good thing about Models, IMO, is the fact that it's focus isn't so much on fearfulness nor fearlessness. Instead, it focuses on the emotional part of the seduction process and that is where you're always going to get the most success at attracting women.

A lot of us guys that have been here for a while will tell you that reading is fine. Get as educated as you want on seduction, but knowing it all in your head isn't going to help you too much when you get out there and actually start talking to women. Seduction is a lot simpler than most books explain. It's the guys here that overcomplicate this simple stuff is what makes things seem incomprehensible.

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Models is pretty much the best I have read.

Reason I ask is because I want to know if it actually gets results, in terms of finding a sexual partner. It's made a difference in my life, but I haven't reached the end-game yet. Not sure if the things I have revealed by "being vulnerable" will ultimately help me reach this end-game.

Here's my experience:

The few times I've tried being vulnerable, the response has almost always been positive. Even if it's revealing a shameful secret about myself, the response has been positive.

I haven't had a sexual relationship with anyone I have met using this technique, yet. However, I have gotten expressions of interest.

I have felt better about rejection and feel less need to pursue or "fix" things I may have done "wrong" since I understand that a compatible woman will meet me halfway, and that a rejection is not anyone's fault, mine or hers.

So, my most recent rejections have not bothered me as much. I got super-pissed about a girl who dicked me around but then I got over it within a couple of hours, whereas I used to brood for days...

Finally, when I assume the mindset that women are generally good people, and want the best for me, I generally find this is true.

I still find it is good to keep an Iceberg Slim mask on how much I confide or share with women, though. I try not to go to a woman with my problems, or even to guy friends. This is part of learning to avoid neediness. There are secrets I have which will go to the grave with me... things I can't afford to be vulnerable about, but, fortunately, I can deal with them myself.

It's a painful process but I'm getting better at learning to deal with my own problems, instead of going to other people with them.

I have a tough time finding a balance between being open and expressive without dumping problems on people, but I know I'm headed in the right direction.

The fashion tips are pretty obvious, but I've been observing people, reading celeb mags, going to the tailor, talking to him, and soliciting female opinions for a year now.... To a beginner, this section would be good.

The part about matching colors I had not fully thought about. After reading the book, for casual dress, I now make sure to always have shoes with a color that matches my shirt. I wear pants that do not match the shoes or shirt, but are still complimentary to the shoes and shirt.

I still need to finish the last section on how to be up-front about expressing attraction and intent.

I read the first three chapters yesterday, I'll get in 1 or 2 tonight.

It was hard for me to get through those three at first because it just screamed learned helplessness to me. Leaving everything up to whatever the woman's current social conditioning and/or situation is determines if you can get her or not.

"Nothing persuasive here" was my first impression. I've taught myself to put aside my personal belief systems in order to hear out arguments fairly before reaching final conclusions. It's how I combat my own personal cognitive dissonance which leaves me open to evolution.

I love the ideas on how he differentiates soft dudes from men with healthy egos from narcissists. Many people on this forum are under this illusion that anyone who is a leader, sets the tone for his life, and has vision is a narcissist.

What I'm getting so far is that the key goal for this book is to create an emotionally vulnerable independent man. A combination of strength and warmth which is the strongest sort of leadership style. I learned this from - COMPELLING PEOPLE - The Hidden Qualities That Make Us Influential by John Neffinger, Matthew Kohut

Which talks about ways to balance strength and warmth through body language, and choice of words. Plus how your race, looks, society, job, gender, stereotypes etc play rolls in these balancing acts of strength and warmth. You guys should definitely read that.

Before I read that I thought it was all about strength strength strength strength strength. But warmth is just as important in influence.

There is actually immense power in this book Models. It's a pick-up focused version of that above book. The compelling people thing is like a general overview which some guidelines and this appears to be a practical application of the theoretical principles.

I'm already getting ideas on how to improve what he mentions in this book from what I've experienced with women. Using his ideas in my own way.

Chapter 4 talks about strategy which I haven't gotten into yet. I'm curious about how he'll talk about balancing vulnerability vs neediness practically.

Thanks for sharing your experience Mojo by the way. I want to ask you some questions, but I'll finish reading the book before so I don't end up asking you something that he covers in the book.

I'm the only person that's accused you of being a narcissist fudge. But your statement of many people making this accusation just fits into the category of narcissism.

Many people have narcissistic traits, but this persona that you're pretending to be falls into NPD. At least when you were fudge, you were actually likable.

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Vauge is right. I'm generally trying to find some new shit to increase my knowledge. I suppose it would be better to hone in on programs that are the best of some sub-niche in game.

Like, the "best book on telling emotionally charged stories".

I am interested in complicated theory also, but not just random theory you know. I like quality shit. Tyler made the blueprint right? There should be a few quality pieces in it since they are always in the field. I'll work with that after I finish studying and implementing Models into my life.