So you guys think I should abandon ship?
Does seem to be the typical trend here, screw trying to fix it when you can replace it..

When I gave this girl the whole 100% or nothing I didn't mean I wouldn't continue to interact with her, actually I just said "If we hang out, I'm going to make moves on you.. So if you don't like that, don't hang out - simple"

I haven't responded to the diatribe she sent, and if she wants to see me she'll have to invest more than I'm willing to (which isn't much as this stage) eg. Come to my house to watch LOTR so I literally don't have to move. Don't see what I have to lose really?

Yeah, there's a reason for that. If the ship is sinking you abandon.
If you don't want it to sink then either don't crash it or don't get one made from shit materials.

Be honest, do you have other options? And you don't even have to answer because if you did you would not be wasting your time with this girl.

Look man, it's real simple. Mark Manson put it pretty nicely in some article when he said it's either "No" or "Fuck yes". Anything in between is a waste of time and effort and ironically enough the more effort it requires the less worth it it will be.
Does this girl seem like a fuck yes to you?

_________________
I know my place. It's me on top of the world.

My in depth texting & dating guide.
There's no such thing as shit-tests.
How to keep a girl.

Download tinder, upload some good pictures, date some girls and read this thread again 3 weeks later.

Then what? You will see clear again... right now your fucked by emotions and you got in this place because ofd having no options. Always have options and you will not be on this forum anymore.

_________________
Do not make external things like girls define your happiness or you will live a harsh life. Keep doing what you love and keep improving as a man.

This guy's thirsty as hell.

The opposite being what? Basing my entire game around some form of active disinterest? Fuck that. If i like someone, I'll tell them. I don't give a shit how they take it. Or how it makes me look.

The whole pretend not to like them until they feel they need to sleep with me to validate themselves seems like a giant act to me.

You're doomed to a life of jacking off, or waking up to 5's if you continue this.

I recently witnessed a conversation between two very attractive women (one of them my girlfriend). Her friend complained about how a guy liked her way too fast, and it annoyed the hell out of her, so she dumped him. My girlfriend completely agreed. They concluded that "the chase" was half the fun. My girlfriend bragged to her friend that I still make her chase half the time, and she loves it. This is my girlfriend of 11 months. I'm 40, she's 21 and gorgeous. Do you think I got her by acting like a complete pussy? Do you know how fast she dumped guys who gush all over her in the first few weeks? hahaha. Or guys who write her love letters or long emails or emotional texts?

Gone. Dumped. Friend zoned forever. Blown off. Bye bye.

When you gush on a girl early, she thinks you're pathetic, because you're acting like a guy who doesn't get laid. Women are very competitive and love a man who has options.

Wow this is weak behavior. Always text a woman (early on) as if you are in bed with three other women. your responses will look like, "cool", "sounds good", "sweet". Your respond in bold is the response of a man who is having trouble getting laid. A man who is recieving 2-4 blowjobs a week would not send that text. He'd be chilled out, like Pink Floyd chill.

This is complete bullshit, and I've never agreed with it. You definitely project neediness when you ask for commitment before a girl is emotionally ready. I've dumped girls for being like this. It works both ways.

And love/dating is not serious. At all. It's FUN. It's sexual, it's playful.

I'll quote Corey Wayne (Youtube guy): "You have to out wait and outwit women."

You didn't.

You had this attractive woman in your palm for two months. Then you became emotionally-uncentered and she dumped you.
You can't convince a woman to do something with words. You have to be what you want her to be. Women want a FUN guy. And if you're fun for long enough, they want you all to themselves and will have "the talk".

A woman who is getting great sex from a fun, chill guy who is blowing her mind will not give a shit what her friends think. I'm dating a 21 year old, and I'm 40. Her friends hated me at first. But I was fun enough, and rocked her world enough in bed to where she overlooked it. Now her friends like me. I "controlled" that situation by how I showed up day to day with her.

You can't control her friends. You can't control whether she wants to date. All you can control is how you show up, every day. And from within this context, you be the FUN, chill guy who gives her lots of orgasms, and she will do whatever the fuck you want for as long as you want.

That's it. It's that simple. Stop talking about emotions. Stop talking about relationships. Make sure 95% of what you talk about is fun, sexual and playful. Wait a couple weeks and hit this girl back with an invite and this advice.

_________________
Pickup coach. PM for direct, simple coaching.

Jesus Christ.

I did not see this part.

Dude.

Abandon ship. My advice was for a girl who you've at least had some kind of sexual relation with.

WTF?

There's nothing to collapse, lol. NOTHING. You never even received a blowjob from this girl. There's no emotional attachment or sexual attachment from her at all. You are her court jester, and she the queen. You are one of many male orbiters who she uses for attention while she lets an indifferent stud fuck her brains out.

Have some basic level of respect for yourself and go out and game other women immediately.

You sent a sexual ultimatum to a woman you've never even had oral sex with. That is without question, the neediest thing you can do. That is desperation at its apex.

Print out or screen cap this thread, and use it as a blueprint for what to do going forward.

_________________
Pickup coach. PM for direct, simple coaching.

Okay so to correct you, oral sex HAS been exchanged, both ways. Lol

And after she said no, I went okay.. Blocked her off everything and continued my life as normal..
Yesterday she called 3 times, i didn't answer cause i was asleep, and didn't bother hitting her back..

Later that night, she called again.. Asks if i want to hang as friends and she wanted to come play PlayStation and chill... I said "I'd think about it and get back to you" she said "no you won't" i assured her i would, hung up.. Talked to my housemate, who said do it, but make absolutely no advances. Im like okay, I'll try that..

Message her and say "come on then"

She calls straight away and says "this is just like a friend catch up, right?" i say "I don't even know what that means" she says "are you going to try to hook up with me haha" i said we'll see and hung up...

She comes over (takes her an hour even though her house is like 10 minutes away) she comes in, i don't hug her, just sit back down and say "hope you like Lord of the rings!"

We watch for a while and decide that we should go on a foot mission to get food.. Do that. Get back, keep watching.. At this point, she's sitting so close our asses are touching, even though i haven't said or done anything that would be interpreted as anything other than friendly.. She rests her head on my shoulders and starts feeding me and we're watching this movie, but i can tell she's not thinking about no movie.

After i while i put my arm over her.. She's smiling ear to ear.. Then we lay down and cuddle.. She's like "it's getting late i should go soon" im like "if you're tired, go home"

Lay for a while and she starts pushing her ass gently into me.. Grab her hips and she goes a bit harder... Im thinking 'gotcha' then we do something i could only describe as sexual wrestling for like 2 hours she comes, i come (on her) then we go to sleep.. Have breakfast at a cafe the next day (which i paid for some of, because her new job hasn't paid her yet) which in hindsight i fucking regret because i thought later how she had money for booze the night before) she's saying shit like "I'm so like you" and basically agreeing with everything i say even if its makes no sense "i hate people, they suck" her - "yea I'm starting to hate people too" then after we leave "i feel like fucking you" i hate when she says this simply because we haven't and i can't quite get over that hump..

Anyway point is. Attraction isn't created, nor destroyed. It doesn't matter how badly you think I've fucked up because of what i said, because even though it came across as needy, i don't feel like i have much of an outcome dependency, which seems to be doing something...

She texted me a few hours later.. A back and forth starting with "i have a very obvious scratch down the front of my neck amd I'm going to my parents'" after a short volley i stopped responding when i said "you're a funny bitch " and she said "you've taken a lot to calling me "bitch" lately" smelt like drama and i had no idea where to go with that lol

Lol

Man, these girls are so fucking smart, they play you, and then have you believe that YOU'RE the smart one.

LMAO

So, let me get this straight, you wanted something serious with this chick, she didnt. She wanted something non serious and fooling around. You cut communication. Now, she's gotten back your communication, and casual fooling around situation SHE wanted. And YOU are patting yourself on the back like something has changed. She played you. You're right back at where you were when you stopped contact. Why would you even act like this is an accomplishment? This is like you telling your company you want a raise, they say no. You say, ok I wont work and you stop coming to work. They call you and ask you to come to the office. You go there and continue to work. Then you say "Point is...It doesnt matter how badly you fucked up." Dude....You're back at the fucking office with no raise. What is the accomplishment?

Not being harsh on you, but you see you're getting played right?

She wanted non serious/fooling around.

She has it again

She wanted to communicate with you.

She has that again.

YOU wanted serious.

YOU wanted vaginal intercourse

Crickets

WTH man.

I'm not for ultimatums, what I'm for is not fighting to change someone's mind who doesnt want what you do.

Regardless of everything, if you truly didnt want to talk to this chick, then DONT talk to this chick.

1. You fought for reasons to be with her
2.When she kept calling you picked up and set a date, even though you wanted all or nothing.
3. She comes, gets your dick hard and now you're back to talking...AFTER saying ALL OR NOTHING

How strong is this "frame" of yours? Do you think this girl thinks she doesnt have power over you?
You're a play thing. A trophy. I'd say you dont even want this girl to be your gf, because she's way stronger than you are. If you really could walk away, you would have. If you really wouldnt settle for less than you wanted, you wont be dry humping, texting her and thinking something has changed. If this is how easily this girl is playing you NOW, what happens if she were your gf? The next guy, is going to be hearing about you...just another guy she played, trophy #248.

Okay, thanks for the clarification. It allows me to give better advice.

This woman is smart. She knows that if she fucks you, she'll get more attached. And if she gets attached, she can't blow you off so easy like the rest. She's testing the hell out of you, too, lol.

As Neo said, she has the frame right now.

After your most recent post, I have a much better grip on who this girl is.

Your goal is to be as indifferent as possible. The more chill and indifferent you are, the faster she will let you fuck her.

This is just one long giant shit test. Women like this are desperate for a dominant male after long strings of weaker men. Thus the extreme shit-testing.

Keep your texts to simple one or two words responses. When she comes over, escalate when her purse is down, preferably against a wall. Lead. Don't ask.

She doesn't respect your weak escalation techniques. She doesn't respect all your relationship talk. But obviously she is still very curious about you. And her continued curiosity is her weakness. Use it to your advantage.

_________________
Pickup coach. PM for direct, simple coaching.

Arch Stanton - thank you for your responses.. I really appreciate what you're saying, because instead of 'you're an idiot drop her' what you say is more like 'you're an idiot, drop her, but I know you won't so here's what I'd do' it's good. I need to hear the negative shit about what I'm doing because usually once it's been said, I realise that I'd been lying to myself.. Or knew and chose to ignore.

As for your diagnosis. It all makes more than sense. She's looking for strength. Her last boyfriend was a body builder and im covered in tattoos, so it's like she seeking out strength of character, through appearance.

I like having this strong framed woman around because it can teach me how to have a stronger frame myself, because that's what it's going to take to get anywhere with her

I think you're right about aloof and indifference. It actually seems the less i put in, the more i get out. I agree with the texting too. I don't want her to get her daily fix in any other way than in person. When she's around im happy, fun, spontaneous and generally sending out positive, unstifled vibes. When she's not around she doesn't get much.
For someone that likes to plan when we see each other, i think this is a good plan. However I think i need to be "busy" more often, and say no to her more often.

So. In person, advance hard you say? What if I get resistance? Which is surely to happen. If im to believe what she's telling me, she hasn't had sex in nearly 2 years. And even longer than that with a male. Although part of me thinks the whole lesbian/bisexuality thing is more of an attention seeking guys like this kind of stuff behavior..

This thread is just proof that you should always wait for her to bring it up. Guys get impatient and manipulate themselves with shit like "I'm supposed to lead. Dtrak told me to lead so I will lead by asking her to be my girlfriend" when really it's just neediness and you know it.

_________________
I grew out of the dumb shit I used to say on here. Most of my posts don't represent who I am today at all.