> I don't care how old you are but you should be smart enough to realize that,
> as a man, when you see a woman that you are sexually attracted to and mentally
> attracted to that you don't all of a sudden figure out that this woman is the
> love of your life because of one special moment.

Yup, I know it's not remotely rational but that is exactly what did happen. The head is saying: "Are you effing insane?" The heart is saying: "Yup probably, but who cares?"

If you think all romantic emotions are based PURELY the rational likelihood of getting sex then you and I are not the same type of man.


> Treat her like you've always treated her...as a friend.
Mmmm. Maybe someday. But for a while this will definitely not be possible.
Wait, have you ever actually BEEN in love - or is everything to you just sex?

> It's not impossible, but it is highly unlikely that one of those people
> doesn't have some emotions in it.
That's pretty sad. I now feel faintly sorry for you.

This may sound strange to you but the truth is that I have a number of good female friends. Most, but not all of them, under absolutely no situation would ever want to have sex with, not ever.

What I do agree with is that if you fancy someone MORE than marginally - some small amount of sexual tension is permissible - that does make it extremely difficult to just purely be friends.

In truth two of my closest female friends are women with whom I have previously had a short relationship and in both cases we both agreed it just didn't work... and never ever would. Been there done that. With them I can discuss pretty well anything including latest affairs of the heart (although their actual dating advice is often diabolical!)

You're lashing out because you're confused and protecting your ego.

_________________
Pickup coach. PM for direct, simple coaching.

So true. And these are the weakest guys.


Yep.

_________________
Pickup coach. PM for direct, simple coaching.

What are you hoping to get out of this OP ? You're not gonna get anywhere with this broad with your mentality

_________________
In a funk? Read this

pua-lounge/the-importance-patience-this ... his%20game

It was a sincere question.
The suggestion being made was that I could go straight back to just being friends.
That stuck me as bad advice.

Deep love has different dynamics from casual/flippant sex.

If guys ARE secretly hoping that the woman will change her mind, then yes those are the very weakest of guys.

It may blow your mind, but I genuinely do have female friends who I would never have sex with.

But this is a diversion. Re the girl in question friendship may not be possible, being as yes, I would secretly want sex with her and because I have screwed it up catastrophically by demonstrating extreme weakness I think we can all agree that she will never want to have sex/any sort of romantic relationship with me.

So going back to staying friends looks like a BAD idea: In the short term it would be impossible from my side, in the longer term probably a bad idea in any case.

That's a good question. My feeling is that I since the hug moment I have demonstrated extreme "weakness" and have basically blown it.

I am now not sure what my options are.

Whatever else happens I do need to recover my self-esteem and strength. The first step is radio silence and not to communicate with her and to get out and about and practice my social skills on other women.

[ASIDE: Radio silence was going well until she phoned me up quite late at night furious that a "sleazy" guy I know had been contacting her. The guy is a vague social friend of mine who gets a lot of sex from different women. I don't normally give out phone numbers without explicit permission, however he *promised* me that she had already given him her number but that he had lost the mobile phone in question. She was blaming ME for his behaviour and demanded that I contact him and ask him to stop. I got in touch with him asked him to "cease and desist" and emailed her the following day to tell her I had told him to stop but that he swears that she had given him her phone number.

The fact that this "sleazy" guy appears to be my friend has further damaged my credibility as she has already called me a "Lothario".]

So it's game over.

For my own sanity I need to get her out of my mind as fast as possible (and yes, dating other girls is a clear winner) but one nasty thought plagues me. I HAVE been in situations where girls change their minds by 180°s after about a month, maybe 6 weeks of no contact, after a definite chase has been on. I have heard girls admit to having done as much.

Okay so here's my new plan. I keep radio silence for 6-8 weeks and then see how I feel. If I still feel the need for closure I shall call her, meet up and tell her face to face that we being just friends isn't an option and presumably that will be that.

Unfortunately, looking at my calendar, I'm almost certainly going to see her in 4 weeks (wedding) and again in 6 weeks (black tie dancing event). Annoyingly that wedding is really a little too soon to do the Get Closure move.

OK so at that wedding, I shall attempt to be polite and as professional & clinical as possible and simply avoid talking to her as much as possible. In the event that she corners me I shall bring on the Get Closure move early. And that will be that.

And in the meantime, if for any reason she phones up AGAIN I shall make sure I sound rushed and too busy to talk.

OK this is starting to feel good.

But one final thing. What do you think would happen if I wait a while say 3 or 4 weeks and then do the Get Closure move, but rather than just say "We can't be friends, farewell". Would not a man in STRONG mode say "Listen, I have a proposal. Why don't we actually take some time to get to know each other? No rush, but let's just see how it goes. I shall be having dates with other people and I'm sure you will be doing so too. But I would like to get to know you properly." I could then deliver a speech about how she always has her guard up and how there's always this big invisible wall around her... i.e. One final bit of gaming.

You've demonstrated weakness throughout your entire experience with this woman. One actions is rarely a deal-breaker in and of itself. It's usually contrasted by an established pattern. Even if your hug moment had not happened you'd still have been on a path leading to nowhere with her, because you already consider her the "love of your life" and there's simply no basis for that. Just infatuation.

I don't even think you're infatuated with her, but rather the ideal you've created for her.
Good man.
And this is what I mean. I get that she would be pissed that you handed her number to some random dude, but the fact that she's blaming you for his behavior is simply immature. The fact that she demanded that you be the one to tell him to stop is even more immature and the fact that you actually went through with it makes me wonder if you ever said "No" to this woman.
If anything has damaged your credibility it's not association with the guy, but rather your inability to explain his attempt to manipulate and how it's her job to shut down sleazy ass guys, and not your job to do it for her.
And where's the problem?
You date other women and if she contacts you after 2 months you can decide what you want to do, or if you even want anything to do with her anymore.
That's like saying you're reluctant to get a job because some people win the lottery. Are you just gonna do nothing and hope to win an absurd gamble?

The need for closure fades the more you distance yourself from the source. Meeting again is the 2 steps backwards that follow your 1 step forwards. Don't.
What closure are you even realistically hoping to get? Can you - 100% honest - say you're not trying to use this as a shock and awe ultimatum type tactic? Can you honestly say you don't hope this will somehow end with her falling into your lap?


Or you can just not pick up the phone.
A man in "strong" mode would not be in this situation to begin with. And if for some god forsaken reason he were, he'd know when to cut his losses and move on, instead of finding all sorts of excuses and desperate measures to hold on just a little bit longer.

The irony is that with scenarios like this, even on the ridiculous offchance that you would persuade her, you're in no shape to handle her anyway. Any form of relationship between you two would end in a disaster, because the neediness and pedestalization mentality that got you in this mess to begin with are still there. And they'd only get worse.

_________________
I know my place. It's me on top of the world.

My in depth texting & dating guide.
There's no such thing as shit-tests.
How to keep a girl.

No, if the hug moment had not happened, then I would have her down as a friend who I found vaguely attractive but given that she didn't fancy me, she was certainly not the love of my life(!). That's the honest truth and if I can't convince you, frankly too bad. Not my problem.

> Meeting again is the 2 steps backwards that follow your 1 step forwards. Don't.
Annoyingly we will meet socially either way.

> Or you can just not pick up the phone.
Yes, good point I hadn't thought of that. It would be rather rude, given that we are nominal friends with other good friends in common, but yes it could be done.

[Actually it just got harder because in order to remove temptation have deleted all her contact details and I no longer have her phone number(!) If she calls now I won't even know it's her. OK well I could just not take any unrecognised calls... yes, good plan.]


I think in hind-sight, I think PRE-hug that she thought I was keen, whereas the honest truth is I had totally written her off and was therefore totally detached.

I think the truth is that she his quite f***ed up by her previous relationships and was carrying over a lot of hurt. I think she NEEDED to be inconflict and was testing my metal to see if I was man enough for the job. She wanted and needed to be competitive conflict with any would-be suitor.

However PRE-hug I was very emotionally detached and I chased other women right under her nose and paid pretty little attention to her. But I would sort of tweak her tail from time to time just for the fun if it. She has a good sense of humour and is very teasable, so it was hard to resist the temptation. And it was kind of hilarious. And she would kind of react without fail every single time. There was much banter, much of it public, but I always tended to come out on top because I literally didn't give a rat's arse. And I would wander off and make conversation/ chase some younger skirt in front of her, no big deal.

This drove her nuts because she had no hold over me and because given that she was SURE that I was keen on her, how come paying her quite so little attention? It just didn't make any sense.

Well the answer was simple. PRE-hug I was not keen on her. Yes, I liked her and yet I was amused by her and albeit I would get bored with it after a while, bantering was fun for a bit. But I had mentally written her off.

[This explains her saying (mid hug): "I just don't understand what you're going to do next - and it scares me!" and the fact that I was chasing women under he nose explains why she thought of me as a "Lothario".]

However, POST-hug switches in my brain flicked. I then mentally imploded, became infatuated and played a textbook weak hand. So weak that she kicked sand into my face exactly as one would expect.

Anyhow it's clearly game over. And beyond trying to learn any lessons I need to forget her and just move the f*** on.

J

P.S. All I will say is that it's SO much easier to stay "strong" and game someone when you are detached and don't give a rat's arse... but when you deeply care all your instincts are 100% weak and you immediately do absolutely everything wrong. How perverse life is. Anyhow, enough.

OP, how well do you do with women? I only ask this because you seem to be saying that you've found this 8+ woman as vaguely attractive until she gave you the hug and now is the potential of being the love of your life. Honestly, it translates to a guy that takes what he can get and has no seductive skillset.

_________________
mpuaforum.proboards.com

Delusion and denial run strong in this one.

A case of a man's delusional optimism taken to extremes and sadly the price he's paid not even realizing.

Op is chasing the ghost of a idealized version his mind has created of this woman. I wonder if his tinted goggles were removed would he even be attracted to the real version of her, or would he even be able to see her for who she is having been trapped in fantasy for so long.

To the OP directly: "Re lady who has sucked me in & spat me out" Take some personal accountability. it was YOU who CHOSE to tether yourself to her for over 3 years. You sucked yourself in, you aren't a victim so stop pandering to the notion that somehow you were an unwitting participate in this.

OP are you even hearing Jack & Arch?

This is the feeling that you have that this particular woman is actually special, is nothing more than an illusion. she is the same as any other tramp on the street.

How many dudes have torn up that pussy since you started obsessing over her?

Your fucking 50. Snap the fuck out of it before you waste another three years. Live is short Bro, real short.


How many favors have you done for her, without reciprocation? How many times have you picked up her tab?

Is it all about sex? Well fuck no, but would you make a beef stew without beef?

_________________
They call me the cat whisperer, cause I know exactly what the pussy needs.

Hard to answer this one objectivel,y but let me try and be honest. I agree it doesn't look so good. I am basically rather painfully shy (something I do battle with!) and don't get out enough. Strangely, when I admit to social friends to being shy sometimes girls don't believe me and look at me like I'm full of sh*t. For some reason I seem to project a much more extrovert image than is the truth. I'm not sure what all that proves.

But the truth is I don't come across very many 9s and 10s.

That said I am now in my (very) late 40s and am looking for something more than mere decoration in order to qualify for being a genuine 9 or 10. Girls that are 10s physically are kindof no longer age-appropriate and frankly so painfully 'silly'/vacuous that in all honestly I can't really be bothered to talk to them.

So how is my seductive skillset? I am a niche product. I am good at being a decent human being, but less good as a seduction machine. I am not good at getting sex fast. But I have been lucky enough to go out very a number of very high quality ladies. Annoyingly girls tend to fall in love with me more than just want to fuck me. I say annoying become sometimes one just wants a good uncomplicated fuck. Getting an uncomplicated fuck I am extremely crap at. For some reason, getting girls to want a serious relationship is much easier for me,

All in all my seduction skillset is at best... RUSTY! Which is why I'm here.

Look we were friends for three years. During that time every time I flirted even faintly with me she absolutely murdered me. She's not that hot - certainly not hot enough to behave like that. Frankly I couldn't be bothered with all that neurotic behaviour. Here entire vibe was that she did NOT want a relationship. Maybe not with anyone, most certainly not with me. Life is short. Maybe I'm not her type. Who cares. There are more receptive women. So mentally I let her go. But we have mutual friends in common and gradually we became friends. Part of those 3 years I was going out with someone else, part of the time she was. Laterly I hadn't heard from her for about 6 months during which time she become single and never contacted me. Another sign of zero interest.

When I say sucked me in I mean the Hug event. Which transmitted loud and clear that she MIGHT be interested. At this point I allowed her way, WAY too much power and as a result got sand kicked in my face.

I know I have lot to learn from this. The only question is quite what?!

Anyhow I had a date tonight with what I thought was a 6.5 but by the end of the evening she was a 7.5. I didn't cover myself in glory. We might sleep with each other at somepoint I suppose but the trouble is that I genuinely can't be bothered to sleep with less than an 8! Nonetheless it was good to limber up and stretch the somewhat rusty social skills.

I personally don't care what type of women that you're attracted to. What I look at is the process that you use to make yourself attractive to women. You're almost 50 and you sound like you have the confidence of the awkward kid just out of high school. If people can't believe that you are shy with women, it's likely because you are protecting yourself from rejection. You have to get over that.

My next question is how is it that she mentions that nothing is going to happen between the two of you? Are you having conversations about her being into you and you into her? If that's the case, you are shooting yourself in the foot. You have to get a sweeping her off of her feet mentality. Being a half-step ahead of what she's wanting and thinking so you can make things happen WITHOUT discussing it.

_________________
mpuaforum.proboards.com