Big Fight Girlfriend, Checking out another guy, Comes Back



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:03 pm 
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Question for you, though. So seeing as you're against communicating needs in a relationship, what strategy do you propose for fostering a healthy connection with your partner? I am all 'ears' as perhaps there's a far better alternative that I m not aware of.

I'm not against communicating needs, just against communicating needs all the time. I agree with a lot of what you say.

A "healthy connection" is IMHO good sex, affection, honesty, and above average communication. All those things should be happening or it's going to slip.
If you're interested, YouTube Dr. Marshall Rosenberg (RIP) and he will clearly explain how our jackal society justifies violence by educating us that 1) other people are the root cause of our feelings, 2) that people are inherently evil creatures (thank Dr Freud for this) and having this as justification to create dominance structures where people's needs are subservient to a ruler who somehow 'knows best', 3) why punishment can never work (look at the high rates of recidivism, violent strife between countries, and how praise is a form of violence, and 4) how much of the violence in this world is perpetrated by 'nice people' (those who do things out of obligation rather than out of a gifting energy), to name only a few points that powerfully illustrate the importance of transparency in communicating needs.

Go look at Emotionally Focused Therapy, the most empirically validated form of couples therapy and how it emphasizes a corrective Attachment experience to heal rifts sometimes lasting decades between couples.

Most people you meet are cut off from their own needs, by extension they're cut off from the world around them. They traverse between various levels of unconsciousness in relationships largely because they react egoicly. Doing so they become further shut off from their own needs and create enemy images of their partners in the process (often manifested as Anger/other blame, shame, guilt, and or depression. All 4 of these are indicators you're shut off from your own needs and stuck in though (or as Echart Tolle would say "mind identification").

I share this w the hope of awaken those whose minds are receptive. a conscious or 'enlightened' person always has one foot in (his/her inner world) and one foot out (the external world). The difference is when they encounter adversity they are able to readily connect to their unmet need(s) and stay present whereas the person who is stuck in their ego is cut off from their needs and that same adversity would push them further into mindlessness (often characterized by rumination/"mental masterbation" and remaining stifled in their life situation).


"A "healthy connection" is IMHO good sex, affection, honesty, and above average communication"
^^these are all needs (need for intimacy, honesty, integrity, to be seen etc). If your needs are getting met then there's no issue, but when one or more aren't being met wouldn't you want to communicate this (not always verbally) somehow to your partner? And vice versa?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:52 am 
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Or perhaps as he'd stated they had plans to meet friends, and she went solo as a means to cool-off rather than remaining in a heated situation at home. Or perhaps it was her way to dissociate and dance rather than ruminate on what had happened.
Yeah, but added with the checking the guy out and flirting? Sounds more to me like a pattern
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Or perhaps she wasn't flirting. Maybe the Op is hypersensitive as he fears her leaving and is looking, in some cases misconstruing her as looking at other men when she's not. Again, her motivation to leave the apartment may be very different than to suggest behavior consistent with cheating.
Reading it, I'm not getting paranoia from the OP. He speaks matter of factly, like this is just what he observed. He didnt rush to conclusions, but waited 10 mins each time before reacting. When he hears she's out, he doesn't go texting her or trying to find her like an insecure guy. He goes to sleep. Thats why he isnt sounding hypersensitive to me.
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Ok? Not to give her a free pass but have you not ever said things you'd regretted, drunk or not to a loved one?
Not to that extent though. I mean, "repulsive" and "my friends say I shouldnt be with you" don't come out of thin air.
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Or maybe its a chronic pattern of his he brought into the relationship which is more about him being afraid to communicate directly about his needs and he simply blew-up. For example the partner who bends over backwards to do things for his partner because he thinks thats the loving thing to do - meanwhile, unknown to her he's suppressing his own needs until one day he explodes on her taking her completely by surprise.
A blow up is fine, but the words were way too far. A girl crying that she thinks you dont love her or she's afraid not to measure up to you...ok, a girl telling you her friends dont like you and she's miserable...

From what's written, I see OP being inconvenienced ie waiting a good amt of time for HER event, and not really mad. I see him communicating a need, and getting rolled eyes. Its not unreasonable for her to let him know early so he doesnt have to wait. Or, heck if she's in a meeting, send an email. Message him on fb. There are so many ways to get in contact with someone, that not doing so because of "minutes" is just someone who doesnt care. I'm seeing a non caring girl, who checks out guys and leaves for days. She does what she wants. She doesnt care if he waits. She doesnt care if she makes a scene. She doesnt care if she is checking someone out. She doesnt care about his feelings. And she leaves when she wants. A chick rolling her eyes when she is the one who is late, and then calling YOU immature? A chick leaving you and causing scenes in front of her friends, then telling you her friends dont like you? Then if OP is so insecure, she brings him to something and talks to some guy for 10 mins? Sounds like she's playing games. I wish I could see one point in the night where she handled something like an adult or at least a girl who gave a shit.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 6:39 am 
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^^certainly is possible she checked-out of the relationship some time ago, and is simply going through the motions at this point. Again, its really difficult to deduce from this vantage point.

Either way Op, make a decision thats healthy for you. I am not sure this relationship is life serving for you in any way. If she's willing to get help and you want to invest by continuing then by all means go find a good therapist. If you'd sooner call it quits now that'd be perfectly reasonable too.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:30 pm 
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Update.

Thanks everyone for your input and comments, it has really helped me think about the situation in various perspectives and thought about what it all could really mean.

Regarding the update. That night she came to the apartment I decided to sleep on the couch, I was hurt and didn't want to sleep beside her. The next morning I left the apartment early and went to work. At noon I got a message from her. Saying that we are adults, that we should talk calmly and that we said we would always work things out. She asked me if I wanted to go to lunch to talk but I told her I couldn't, already had other plans. So I said lets meet up for coffee in the afternoon.

We meet up. I really hadn't felt like meeting up because I felt this situation had happened 12 hours ago, she hadn't thought things well and I know I hadn't because my feeling were all over the place. When she starts talking she tells me of all these point during the night and how each one was my fault: 1. That I was mad because she was late and that she had no way of reaching me (when I mentioned that it bothered me I was not mad but cool about it more in a I want to let you know tone). 2. That I had accused her of checking out another guy (I asked if she was checking out that guy in a relaxed tone.) 3. That then I cornered her not let her leave when she was getting her car and because of that all this built up anxiety in her made he say the things she said ( She was almost totally drunk inside the car wanting to leave, I feel not even as her boyfriend but as another human being it would irresponsible for me to let her leave like that. I even offered to take her myself to the club or her moms house or text her friends to come pick her up but she didn't want to give me the phone to text them.) It was a real downer that her wanting to talk was that I was at fault and responsible for everything and she didn't take responsibility for anything. I suspected it would go this way as I said before because you can't really think about all the things that happened in that event like the one we lived seeing the whole picture in only 12 hours (which 4 she slept).

The reason for me to meet up was to tell her that I needed time to think (got an appointment for tomorrow with a therapist that is highly recommended because I really want to talk to someone about all this I'm feeling, thanks for the advice N2). I told her point by point how I had asked her, not accused her and how I was cool during the whole situation and how she blew up in front of her friends. Then I started talking about everything she said especially the last four 1. That her parents are asking why she is with me because of a fight we had. 2. That I am repulsive to her 3. That she is miserable in this relationship. 4. That she doesn't know why God put someone so insecure in her life. It really hurt me because seeing someone you love and live with look you directly in the eyes and say those things is very hard. She could see that pain in my eyes as I said it and started crying. The she apologized but said it was because of all the anxiety she had. She said she is trying to fix things. I told her I need time to think. She then started crying very hard saying she had no place to live if I ask her to give me space in the in the apartment (the apartment is mine).Then told me if she goes back to her parents for a couple of days, she will have to tell them and my relationship with them would be ruined (Which I think is true). She also said that most of the things she said were a lie. She said her friends do like me, so do her parents and that she is happy and in love but just that night she was miserable (I'm not sure if is she saying this just to fix things and that the things she said the other night were true and they slipped out because she was drunk). We went back to the apartment and she cried that whole afternoon and night in the room. I spent most of the time in the living room and we to a friends house for a bit to get some space.

Today she came over to the living room and wanted to talk. She started crying saying that she is sorry and that there is no excuse for anything she said that it was just wrong. That it is not an excuse but that the anxiety she was feeling played a big role. Said she will work for this to work and won't give up. That she loves me and that we are a family now and the I am the love of her life. I told her that I still needed time to think (I want to have at least my first therapy session). We had a event with her family at lunch but I told her I didn't feel very comfortable going and that I still wanted to think. Her mom wrote me a text during the lunch telling me she is hoping that decide to come and that she is saving me food.

We have her friends wedding tonight, so all the friends that saw the fight are going to be there and the guy she was checking out will be there (she still says she wasn't checking anyone out and doesn't know who I'm talking about). I don't know if I should go. I don't feel really comfortable because everyone from that night will be there and some saw how she flipped out when I asked her if she was checking him out. I'm still undecided.

What I want to do is the next wait for the therapy session. Then decide if I work for this or I leave things there, although I feel I want to work this out. Also I talked to my older brother about what had happened and told me I should tell her to leave the apartment a few days because he said I can't think clearly about the situation if she is around. I am in doubt about this because I said before she would probably go sleep at her parents and it would ruin my relationship with them if I decide to work things out. Also I want to ask you guys if I say ok lets work things out three days after everything happened. Will it send the message that she can get away with this because in three days I will be like ok I want to work this? Will this affect the respect in our relationship? I feel that she like said in previous posts when she wanted to talk that she wanted to manipulate me into feeling bad thats why she started with saying everything is my fault. I appreciate your guys advice and again thanks for reading this long post.

and N2 if i decide to work things out I will follow your advice of the couple therapy. Thanks guys!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:54 pm 
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She then started crying very hard saying she had no place to live if I ask her to give me space in the in the apartment (the apartment is mine).
I hate it every time I read something like this. To me, it's displaying an ulterior motive.

IMO, listen to your brother. If your girlfriend wants to work things out with you, she should go tell her parents why (exactly what took place) she's staying with them until you guys work things out or figure out that she should get her own place.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:48 pm 
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I also feel that she is leaving for various days and the coming back when we get in fights. After the first time she said she wouldn't do it again but she keeps on packing her stuff leaving and the coming back. It worries me because emotionally it hurts a lot seeing my girlfriend packing up her stuff, saying she is leaving and then her coming back a few days later to talk things out. I feel that the next fight she will do it again.
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She then started crying very hard saying she had no place to live if I ask her to give me space in the in the apartment (the apartment is mine).
Lol, this is some bs.

If your girl has been leaving for days, then she can go wherever she was leaving for this time for your space. If she has been going to her parents or a friend, why is it now a relationship ruiner? I think your chick is just a liar, probably a cheater and she's manipulating you.

Also, if your gf was drunk, how does she know she wasnt checking dude out when drunk?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:23 am 
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Update.

Thanks everyone for your input and comments, it has really helped me think about the situation in various perspectives and thought about what it all could really mean.

Regarding the update. That night she came to the apartment I decided to sleep on the couch, I was hurt and didn't want to sleep beside her. The next morning I left the apartment early and went to work. At noon I got a message from her. Saying that we are adults, that we should talk calmly and that we said we would always work things out. She asked me if I wanted to go to lunch to talk but I told her I couldn't, already had other plans. So I said lets meet up for coffee in the afternoon.

We meet up. I really hadn't felt like meeting up because I felt this situation had happened 12 hours ago, she hadn't thought things well and I know I hadn't because my feeling were all over the place.

Already you'd started off on uneven footing. You'd agreed to meet with her when clearly you weren't ready as you'd needed some space for yourself to allow things to settle.

When she starts talking she tells me of all these point during the night and how each one was my fault: 1. That I was mad because she was late and that she had no way of reaching me (when I mentioned that it bothered me I was not mad but cool about it more in a I want to let you know tone). 2. That I had accused her of checking out another guy (I asked if she was checking out that guy in a relaxed tone.) 3. That then I cornered her not let her leave when she was getting her car and because of that all this built up anxiety in her made he say the things she said ( She was almost totally drunk inside the car wanting to leave, I feel not even as her boyfriend but as another human being it would irresponsible for me to let her leave like that. I even offered to take her myself to the club or her moms house or text her friends to come pick her up but she didn't want to give me the phone to text them.) It was a real downer that her wanting to talk was that I was at fault and responsible for everything and she didn't take responsibility for anything. I suspected it would go this way as I said before because you can't really think about all the things that happened in that event like the one we lived seeing the whole picture in only 12 hours (which 4 she slept).

I am curious, is she usually the one who re-intiates after there's been a rift in the relationship? I am not seeing her take any accountability for her contribution in the relationship and specifically her part in how things precipitated. It tells me she hasn't had the time herself to sit and reflect, realize the repercussions of her behaviour. I am wondering if this has been a theme that you'd help reinforce due to your coming-to quickly to resolve matters when she's willing to.

The reason for me to meet up was to tell her that I needed time to think (got an appointment for tomorrow with a therapist that is highly recommended because I really want to talk to someone about all this I'm feeling, thanks for the advice N2). I told her point by point how I had asked her, not accused her and how I was cool during the whole situation and how she blew up in front of her friends. Then I started talking about everything she said especially the last four 1. That her parents are asking why she is with me because of a fight we had. 2. That I am repulsive to her 3. That she is miserable in this relationship. 4. That she doesn't know why God put someone so insecure in her life. It really hurt me because seeing someone you love and live with look you directly in the eyes and say those things is very hard. She could see that pain in my eyes as I said it and started crying. The she apologized but said it was because of all the anxiety she had.

So she used the excuse of anxiety, or being drunk, or little elves told her to do it as her alibis for her behavior. Again, the lack of taking any accountability. Its like Trump when he'd apologized for his sexist remarks the other day, but then said "what Clinton told me in the golf course was FAR worse!" - nice non-apology/refusal to take responsibility.

She said she is trying to fix things. I told her I need time to think. She then started crying very hard saying she had no place to live if I ask her to give me space in the in the apartment (the apartment is mine).Then told me if she goes back to her parents for a couple of days, she will have to tell them and my relationship with them would be ruined (Which I think is true). She also said that most of the things she said were a lie. She said her friends do like me, so do her parents and that she is happy and in love but just that night she was miserable (I'm not sure if is she saying this just to fix things and that the things she said the other night were true and they slipped out because she was drunk). We went back to the apartment and she cried that whole afternoon and night in the room. I spent most of the time in the living room and we to a friends house for a bit to get some space.

So her 'friends' don't like you when she's upset with you, but when she's trying to get back in the good books her friends do like you...I mean regardless of the truth the flip floppy nature is quite concerning.

Today she came over to the living room and wanted to talk. She started crying saying that she is sorry and that there is no excuse for anything she said that it was just wrong. That it is not an excuse but that the anxiety she was feeling played a big role. Said she will work for this to work and won't give up. That she loves me and that we are a family now and the I am the love of her life. I told her that I still needed time to think (I want to have at least my first therapy session). We had a event with her family at lunch but I told her I didn't feel very comfortable going and that I still wanted to think. Her mom wrote me a text during the lunch telling me she is hoping that decide to come and that she is saving me food.

Can't say I blame you for feeling reluctant to going to her folks place after some of the things she'd said. Tough to say what to believe from her mouth, which seems to change depending on which direction the winds blowing.

We have her friends wedding tonight, so all the friends that saw the fight are going to be there and the guy she was checking out will be there (she still says she wasn't checking anyone out and doesn't know who I'm talking about). I don't know if I should go. I don't feel really comfortable because everyone from that night will be there and some saw how she flipped out when I asked her if she was checking him out. I'm still undecided.

Tred VERY careful. Trust your gut, maybe listen to it more often. The less you do, the more self-doubt creeps in through the back door.

What I want to do is the next wait for the therapy session. Then decide if I work for this or I leave things there, although I feel I want to work this out. Also I talked to my older brother about what had happened and told me I should tell her to leave the apartment a few days because he said I can't think clearly about the situation if she is around. I am in doubt about this because I said before she would probably go sleep at her parents and it would ruin my relationship with them if I decide to work things out.

She won't be homeless, she's playing the sympathy card is all as a desperate ploy to win your affection and deflect from the glaring holes in the relationship, sweep them under the rug, and continue on a crash course to the next episode. Some space might not be such a bad idea. IF There's one thing that's clear in all this its your needing space, you've expressed this need several times throughout your post.
Also I want to ask you guys if I say ok lets work things out three days after everything happened. Will it send the message that she can get away with this because in three days I will be like ok I want to work this? Will this affect the respect in our relationship?


Not necessarily, but until she takes any accountability for her behavior there's 0 chance of moving forward.

I feel that she like said in previous posts when she wanted to talk that she wanted to manipulate me into feeling bad thats why she started with saying everything is my fault. I appreciate your guys advice and again thanks for reading this long post.

and N2 if i decide to work things out I will follow your advice of the couple therapy. Thanks guys!


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