LOL come on auto. Now you're back peddling. No one advised for unhealthy amounts of practice.YOU said meet women doing shit you enjoy and sething aside time for practice is desperate. So come on let's not change words.

And no..you don't get it. And you can't. Any guy with some experience heck any guy who's been approaching for a month can tell you there is a huge difference between sleeping with a chick and a chick telling you she wants to sleep with you. There is a huge difference between a chick being attracted to you and converting that into something. And when you act like it matters what a chick tells you with respect to what she wants to do...you only reveal your lack of experience. I can safely ask anyone here if a chick saying she wants to fuck you means anything. And no its not misogyny lol..nice try with that one...it's just experience and learning that they are two vastly different things. See a guy like yourself would think a chick making out with you at a club and begging you to fuck her is a sure thing and proof you've fucked her. A guy whose been out can tell you it doesn't mean much. You really think a chick saying those words means it's true or that it actually would happen? Wow. You're the type of guy who thinks a phone number means something. Or a kmakeout at the end of the date means something. Or a chick letting you finger her at your place means she's gonna come back as she says.Once you get experience you learn that the things you count as experience don't matter.

I've driven for over a decade...I won't go acting like I can talk on NASCAR racing. You admittedly have no actual picking up experience. So why act like you know? Maybe speak on relationship management. Telling new guys to just improve yourself and enjoy the world is bad advice because odds are theyll meet a few girls and get less experience and proficiency. And before you go extreme..no that in no way means you should be practicing night and day. DJ is far less focused on self improvement as I am but I can agree that either way if you're starting out you need to set time aside and meet and flirt.

And this is quite literally the thing I am trying to de-stigmatize. Guys are meditating, reading self help books, spending time in the gym and all other shit without going outside because deciding to talk to women to get better at talking to women is looked down upon often enough that this is a concern.

I mean I don't know about the rest of you, but I work full time, like to get a full night's sleep, and have interest outside of pickup that aren't exactly pussy gold mines. My deal is I set aside time to game to make sure I don't go a couple weeks without anything going on. TVA Oslo a/k/a Teevster, a former poster that I still respect very much, once posted a thread I need to find and link about how to get very good asap. His advice, quite literally, is to go out every single night and hit on women. The best way to learn is to go out and hit on women, and if you just wait for opportunities to randomly appear your are slowing your progress.

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All I said regarding beginners was that interacting with women is good (“practice”), but not if it becomes something you have to actively set time aside for. Meeting new people is just something you can do any time you’re around strangers. It’s not basketball where you need to find a court (“set aside time for it”). In other words, you can “practice” pickup plenty without having to dedicate some kind of special time for it. That’s just sad, man. Maybe I don’t get how bad some guys are at basics of life? Like having a normal conversation?
Some advice is perhaps better than none, but how do you figure out if something is indeed invaluable?
Look at what I said to Jack. That explains about as succinctly as possible what I meant. You can meet women in many situations without having to dedicate special time to it. That basically makes your free time start to revolve around meeting women. That’s desperation. I could care less what results the guys here get or don’t. You can claim I’m revealing my “lack of experience,” but again, you just don’t get it. Don’t confuse the two. You can’t possibly have a clue about my experience, because I haven’t shared much of it thus far (and won’t unless it’s relevant to a thread) nor are you anyone to judge what experience is valuable or not. You can keep making a fool of yourself if you like, buddy. Attraction to physical/sex was basically a non-issue for me from the very beginning. Starting with my first ever girlfriend in high school. The end.
I have no experience, says neo87. By *your own* definition, I’m sure your “experience” is just awesome and all that! Hahahah. I don’t know what to call my experience, but it has involved meeting, attracting and engaging in sexual activity with members of the opposite sex, sometimes more casually but often with deeper emotional involvement.
And regarding meeting less women via my method, that’s you making up crap. Women are everywhere. You can meet new ones all the time. Going out in pussyhound mode is what suckers do, if you ask me.

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That just goes to show how little you know. Anyone can go out and learn to be social...there's nothing to lose there. To be seductive and have real influence over women takes practice. You have to know what you're doing and make it all seem natural. You can say hello and talk to all the women in the world, but just because you're being friendly doesn't do shit. All the advice that I've seen you give is really basic stuff that doesn't have anything to do with actual seduction and more to do with being social. Women aren't going to like you just because you're friendly and social. You don't seem to get that fact and even if you do, you're too stubborn to admit it.

And here you are being judgemental again because people may not agree with how you think they should live their lives.

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That is part of the problem. People like autoregressive say sarging is creepy because having a conversation is normal, therefor practicing is it abnormal aka weird. Except...talking to someone isn't pickup. Asking a woman if it is still raining isn't seduction. These guys forget that there are tangible skills.

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I hate when someone changes their argument. I then have to reread the thread to ensure I read it correctly.
DJ:
See how DJ was talking about pickup as a SKILL. The basketball analogy is in reference to the SKILL, not seeing PU as a sport. Semantics DO matter, hence I can only assume you were being intellectually dishonest when you changed to emphasis to seeing PU as a SPORT. Now, seeing it as a SPORT, has alot of negative connotations, hence, lets be real, thats why you shifted the focus there.

That being said, you say that your focus is on helping men find SOMEONE they enjoy and much sex follows that. Ok. I've said before to guys that PU isnt for everyone. If you want to meet ONE woman you really like and can fuck, join match.com and find her. You dont need to practice for that. She likes you, you like her, you play the numbers and find ONE. Takes less time than all this PU stuff. Now, if you want to date many women, have some degree of choice with the women you get, and the ability to progress things smoothly, then thats what PU is for. And if that is your goal, you need to gain the skill through practice.

There is a difference between becoming an attractive man; ie in shape, career success, sense of humor, passion, all that other stuff...and converting that into dating experiences where you have proficiency. As I said, if your goal is to just meet ONE woman who you connect with, you can hang with friends, go the bar sometimes, go running and just interact with people and one will come along. You may fumble a few, you may not be "smooth"...but eventually you'll find someone. And thats fine if you want to just connect with ONE woman. I have friends who did just that, they hung out, met a few women, found one they liked and who liked them and boom..married. DJ's advice is not to those guys, its to the guys who want choice. They want to ability to have things go smoothly with many women, and THEY can choose.

Being social is great...sure make friends have fun. But it doesnt have a big impact on your dating proficiency. It doesnt help your escalation anxiety which plague many men. It doesnt teach you how to make the move to get her to your place. Your social circle and "being attractive" arent going to make you know how to go for the kiss. Sure, a guy can do what you suggest and get laid. Depending on his circle, he can get laid alot. But he's reducing his oppurtunities and degree of control if he doesnt sharpen his skills. Practice.
And this is what you dont get. A gf is not the goal for PU. Look, there are many guys who always were able to get a gf, a lay here and there, they find a chick and get married. Thats great. You dont ever need to hit a club or bar for that. You dont need to practice. If however, you want to increase the consistency that you can "get" a chick, thats what the practice advice is for. Consistency. Choice.
You can MEET women via your method. And you can get some lays. And a gf. And a wife. All fine. If however you want to be COMPETENT at being able to seduce a woman, when a chick comes along you know what to do, how to read signals, when to escalate, how to escalate, thats a SKILL you practice for.

This actually made me remember a thread I wanted to write called "Fuck Daygame." Because for the past couple years, Ive come across too many guys who want to be better with women, who want choice of woman, but they do daygame in their spare time. 2 years later, they still suck. You rarely see a guy get better with women from not practicing. You can become more social, make more friends, it isnt going to give you skill. And you know what, I'm all for meeting women in your spare time, when out doing something else, thats great. If your goal is to just become social and MEET more women and get some more lays here and there, and MEET a special woman, fine. Play that game. If you want to become BETTER at something, you practice. I know if I go out with friends, I'm in a better place to meet women. I can read body language better, I can approach stronger, I know when to go for a number and when to go for a makeout, or when to go for a pull. Whether I take a chick on a date or back to mine, I know how to manage date logistics, I know how to escalate at my place. Where my friends and I would be in the same bar, all great guy too, they'll fumble at any one of these points and poof, girl gone. I know these things from doing them WAY more than the next guy. I know what to do because Ive failed at it countless times. I dont need to rely on luck, I can rely on skill and experience.

Someone here once posted a great quote: they said how attractive you are increases the quality of woman you can get; practice increases the consistency that you will get them.

Edit: I know you like to change things into "oh so you're saying you're better than other guys." No. Your skill at PU, or how many women youve slept with, or how hot they are dont matter to me. Same way one guy being more practiced at the guitar doesnt make him better than another guy. If you want CONSISTENCY, you need to practice. If you dont, then dont worry about it.

Here you keep going on about knowing little or a lot, by your own laughable and completely arbitrary definitions. Hope they pay you big dividends!
I wouldn’t tell the guys who have made up their mind about how to live their lives (like some on this thread), but, again, for the benefit of whoever comes across this thread in the future looking for advice and they still haven’t made up their mind, I think they should consider what I’ve said.
My advice is basic? Well you got to get the basics right, no?
Seduction tactics? I mean come on, that stuff is snake oil. The only stuff worth anything is the stuff that attraction research has actually shown to be worth something. I’ve yet to see a good summary of it, but, I do have a ton of links and .pdfs around somewhere. The rest of it is basics like “touch her” – grow a pair and go in for the kiss, etc.
Tangible skills, huh? Like I asked Jack… what are they? 99.9% snake oil, that’s what. Unless we’re talking about the basics. What are you going to do? Go out and practice touching girls? Yeah, that’s creepy.
I was talking about a whole boatload of topics related to this, not sure where I shifted what. I suppose I was against the idea that you should think pickup = sport = set aside dedicated time for it. You’re implying that the former method you mention gives you notably less choice of women. That’s total bullshit.
You’re also using your own narrow definition of PU. It’s pretty clear that the world of PU attracts a TON of guys looking for their first “real” girlfriend, for lack of a better way to put it.
Of course, it also seems to be attracting and keeping a ton of guys who are obsessed with sleeping with any many women as possible with as little effort as possible.
Most guys who have all of the former attributes should have no issues with “dating proficiency,” if you ask me, at least. In particular, women will make it pretty easy for them to date them. Unless the women are messed up in the head. You avoid those. Being attractive will make it very easy for you to date women. That’s exactly how you want it.
Again, you’re just making up a scenario that fits your narrative here. Assuming guys who met “the one” didn’t have choice is *total* bullshit. Just your empty words. Hell, maybe too much choice is a bad thing?

Again, maybe for some guys who seek help via PU, dating requires special techniques. For most men it doesn’t, and no, that doesn’t limit their dating success necessarily. That’s just your unsubstantiated claim.
All of these issues have basic, straightforward solutions to them, in my mind. They don’t require practice. Saying “hey, want to come over for a drink/movie/food?” to a girl doesn’t require practice. You say it. It’s a simple sentence. Regarding kino and escalation, after you do it right once or twice, it’s like second nature. Does that really require practice? I don’t think so. Where do you learn this stuff? Just watch a chick flick and watch the actors. Or read a romance novel. Girls LOVE that stuff.
Right, again we have 1) your personal, rather narrow definition of PU and 2) your unsubstantiated claim about choice.
Fuck daygame? I’m willing to wager that a lot more relationships are formed via daygame (via social circle) than nightgame. I don’t have the time to reply to every point, but I can broadly say that you’re obviously giving advice that targets night game. I agree that some of the stuff (but not all) you mention will require practice. That still doesn’t mean that you have to dedicate special time to it (back to my original point!). You just do it when the opportunity presents itself. If that means you go out more often, then you do that. But that implies that the person who needs advice spends a lot of time behind closed doors.
Part of your strategy presents a conundrum: when do you stop “finding more choices” and finally accept that you’ve found “the one?” What if you let go out one of the best ones you’ll ever meet? Odds are you aren’t going to be getting back with the ones you broke up with, unless they, ironically, have no “choices” themselves. Sounds to me like you don’t know what you’re actually looking for? Maybe that’s just me.

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Tell me my arbitrary definitions. But you will judge people for going out to practice and look down upon those that set aside time to practice.Your advice is very basic. It's how to make friends. You don't have to make friends with women in order to seduce them. So your basics...you don't have to get to them.You don't do seduction. You know how to make friends. How do you know it's snake oil? If you quit reading links and pdfs and immerse yourself into the life, you'd realize you have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about.That just shows that you don't get it. You must not have enough pdfs or links.

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Why is practicing creepy? I fully admit I'm not a natural with women. So why is practicing to get better at something weird or wrong?

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Weird only because of the way that you’re approaching it, in my eyes (and the eyes of non PUA community members, if you ask me). Would you tell women when you’re out that you’re “practicing meeting women?” No. Is it wrong? No, that’s not what I’m saying. Odd.. weird, yes, because it feels forced and overdone. Like trying too hard. Trying = good. Trying too hard = bad. Does that make more sense? Again, just my opinion and what I would believe to be the opinion of others, especially women, for the reasons given. You’re basically out to practice doing whatever with women (for your own benefit, largely) as opposed to going out to share a good experience with someone new. Doing the latter requires the right frame of mind.
Your arbitrary definition of what’s helpful vs. not. E.g. that my advice is too basic to help anyone, and therefore I don’t know what I’m talking about. That’s a load of horseshit because 1) this thread isn’t about seduction advice, but “practice time” and 2) you’re assuming that the basic stuff isn’t the most crucial, when I believe it to be. My word against yours. Yes, I judge people by their words and actions. I think it’s the wrong approach and makes you look too try-hard when you “set aside time.” Deal with it.
1) You haven’t defined “friends” and are making up a whole argument based on that definition, which is pretty funny. You definitely have to establish comfort, rapport and intimacy. Call it what you want. Being a social retard won’t help there.

2) Friends become lovers. It’s obvious your advice revolves heavily around nightgame, with pussyhound mode “on.”
Keep pretending that being a social retard will get you women, with the exception of socially retarded ones. I don’t know what I “did”, like I told neo. It didn’t have a name or need one. I’ve just managed to meet and attract women without any bullshit. And by bullshit, I mean the snake oil “seduction” techniques. 99.9% of which were never properly tested by anyone – ever. Are you just cute enough for her or is the seduction “technique” working? We’ll never know, since no one is going to be doing legitimate research to ever find out.
Keep drinking the seduction blog Kool Aid. . .

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Ummm...this thread is about practicing seduction. The thing with your basic stuff is that you don't take it anywhere after you start a friendly conversation. I read some of your bad advice about getting a girl to go to the cafeteria for a 1 on 1. It was bad advice because it gave the OP no state of mind for him and the woman. It gave no tips from going friendly to being the guy that she would want to spend time with in a more romantic sense. Your right, it is your word against mine...the difference is, I'll give more detail about the advice that I offer.How does it look too try-hard to practice? No one will know that you're practicing with the exception of you and maybe your wing. I figured you were smart enough to know what a friend was(FFS, you even say friends become lovers - you must have the definition), so I didn't think I needed to explain it to you. If you're confused, the Internet a few dictionary sites that you can go look up what a friend is. This is where you lack real life experience...comfort isn't necessary for seduction, rapport is just a tool that may not be necessary based on attraction.

So many guys believe friends become lovers and most of the guys here come here because girls only see them as friends. In real life...friends become orbiters and when the orbiter tries to take things further, they get the "we're just friends" speech. Then again, you may have some information on how to make a friend into a lover but you don't share that information. You just talk about being friendly. Tell us how you take it from friend to lover.

Go read my advice to other people and see if it revolves heavily around nightgame. Most of my advice revolves around a person being confident and comfortable with themselves so that they can approach a woman genuinely to achieve whatever their goal is. I also reinforce having one's shit together, which the OP doesn't think is important. That's why real life experience teaches you the truth. I don't need research to know the times that I took a woman that was neutral or even cold towards me and turned them into being interested. I've taken a girl that wasn't even attracted to my race and was able to get her to be attracted to me. While you are looking for research, us guys that are practicing are doing it.

Please don't bring in your discussions with Neo. You constantly disregarded the points that he made and said he was saying something else. LMAO...that statement takes a lot of nerve from a guy with lots of links and pdfs.

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Except you are setting up a false narrative, Autoregressive. I mean, to quote AI we talkin bout practice. This isn't something to be taken so seriously. I will give you a for instance:

One great way to build sexual tension where touching isn't as appropriate is a triangular gaze. So if I go out and tell myself today I'll talk to at least ten women, and remember to use a triangular gaze in any interaction, to me that isn't weird. It's working on something until it becomes, and I hate to call it this, natural. No, I don't tell women I'm practicing, but then again when you see a woman out in a short dress, high heels etc etc at a bar she won't tell you she's looking for a guy to bang either.

And Jack's point, essentially, is that your lack of trying to learn seduction and practice technique doesn't make you an expert in "natural" game. It just makes you not an expert at practicing seduction technique.

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It would be completely pointless for me to write an essay for the guy on how to get from A (saying hi to a girl) to Z (sexual intercourse). You have to get to “B” first – then C, etc. That guy needs to get to know the girl. 1 on 1 lunch is a great, non-suggestive way to do this. Once he has done that and she’s shown some interest in getting to know him, we can worry about “state of mind” or whatever crap he needs to do to get to know her more intimately and sexually. It’ll be blatantly obvious that you’re trying too hard to anyone who can sniff this stuff out. There’s no book about how to tell. Like when you know someone’s trying to kiss your ass and has ulterior motives. There’s a certain fake-ness about the actions. Friend to lover? Making a move at the right time. Not going to elaborate in this thread. Yeah, there’s a chance you’re just playing the numbers/odds game. As I keep telling self-proclaimed women experts: sometimes you just don’t know what’s working and have no way of finding out what actually worked.
Regarding research: learning this stuff will put the odds in your favor via methods that were actually tested in appropriate ways. Not snake oil fiction bullshit.
I didn’t mean to refer to creepy .pdfs from random seduction Picassos. I meant research into opposite sex attraction from people who actually study this stuff.
You’re going to practice the triangular gaze? Are you for real? Do you practice turning on the faucet in the bathroom, too?

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That's the point of the forum... how to get from A to Z. Getting to B is useless because your b would only get to a level of friendship. I see through your bullshit and understand that you have no idea of how to get to Z. Bullshit Why not? You're making claims. You should back them up. But like I said, you have no idea on how to get to Z and it's blatantly obvious. More bullshit. Just because we're not Harvard professors doesn't mean we can't figure out what works and what doesn't work. Realize that you said that you have all the links and PDFs. You are the one that refuses to explain how to get from A to Z. You are not providing anyone with any help. I was looking at a thread earlier with a guy that was following the type of game plan that you would suggest and he ended up in the category of friend with a girl after nearly a year and he's frustrated because she told him that she only sees him as a friend. He followed your type of approach and ended up where us guys that understand seduction would expect. You should either stop posting or explain how to get from start to finish otherwise you are a disservice to the community. But like I said, I know you have no idea of how to get from start to finish and you never will unless someone from Yale writes a paper on it. You are the guy that knows how to introduce yourself and then hopes for the best.

I'll give you this, you're excellent at avoiding giving any practical advice. You have the ability of talking without providing any real solutions.

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Funny enough, the exchange between autoregressive, myself and others highlights the stigma around pickup itself. To practice improving with women, you have to admit you aren't very good at it, or at least not where you would like to be. It means admitting to something the average man's ego won't allow:

I sucks at getting girls, how do i change that?

A concrete statement like that is hard to make. Take auto comparing triangular gazing to turning on a faucet - if you don't know how to turn on a faucet, are you supposed to spend your entire life never knowing because looking for help means admitting you didn't know?

Figure out what you suck at, then work to fix it. The next hot girl you bang won't care that you werent smooth or funny or sexy a year ago. Most people will try to shame you out of fear. If you change, their excuses for staying the same lose a lot of validity.

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