Men are going to want structure as a woman would if he's raising a child alone. Being a single dad, or mom and having a separate dating life is not as good as having a family. So a good father is going to want to find a good woman and settle down, same as the women. You don't realize your argument makes men look bad. He SHOULD be thinking I want the perfect family, if he has some sense. I'm not for single mothers and single dads doing it alone because of arrogance. If you deny child support as a single father and "raise the kid on your dime", your just reducing the amount of money available for raising the kid. Maybe men are more proud single parents as you say, but then that's just stupid on their part to NOT take money and use it for the kid. There is no honor in refusing additional money to your child, to prove something to yourself. The single dads who want to do it alone, are just as bad as the mom's that do. You're neglecting your kid's welfare for your ego.

No offense Mr.A, but you have a very "childlike" view of these things. And childlike was just the best word I could think of. For eg, if you marry or get involved with someone seriously with kids, you better be able to see that kid as your own. If you can't then don't get involved seriously with her. If you're worrying about child support for "another man's kids" then you're not actually aware of what you're entering. Likewise, if you're considering fatherhood one day and dreading child support, don't have children. Its like you forget these are human beings and emotional connections and look at it through pessimistic financial lenses. I could never think about having kids and worrying about how much child support is gonna cost me, I'll be hoping my kids are healthy and happy, not seeing them as future burdens. If I don't see kids that way, I just wont have them.

You are talking to a polyamorous man. So I'm just being hypothetical here. A good man doesn't have to settle down. Thats just social programming. No one can dictate your life. And I already made it clear that the laws favor women so a man who doesn't tolerate nonsense won't participate in such a terrible deal. I am not arguing with your onetis for an ideal family and I would participate in it but there's no incentives. Just the laws that make it not worth striving for. Not your idealism, it looks good on paper but the laws aren't on your side.

Now arguing for a monogamous man. I would be thinking "this kid has a mother, why look for another one" and she will visit him whenever she wants to. No arguments from me. This is all assuming I'm making the most money here. Don't worry Neo. Society will hold the status quo for you. I will lose the child custody battle anyway so the cycle will continue for women benefitting. No harm done.

I already said, I feel like no one reads and whenever they see one word , they get triggered and start ranting about stuff that I have already said. This post is a warning, that's all it is. If a man is okay with providing for another mans kids then go for it. The warning is there, can't stop someone from walking into crocodiles infested waters. Maybe R.C. Is more politically correct in the way he says it. But I won't be. I'll say it like it is. Because that's the cold hard truth. If the laws didn't treat men like crap, I wouldn't be here saying all these things.

I'll have kids. But I'll make sure it's with a sensible woman who won't bring the government into the works. Government will not have any business in my dating life.

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When I said similar you said:
You called that kinda thinking EMOTIONAL HOPE.

Drop the MGTOW talking points; MGTOW is slightly correct in some ways, and yes men do get railroaded in many cases, but jeez, you're losing court cases in your own head already. Even when the real statistics don't bear out your scenarios. If the single mom you dated was that insensitive to your time and didn't make time for you, that means you were dating an immature chick. Has nothing to do with her being a single mom. And look, just because someone calls out the fact that what you say is wrong and highly exaggerated, doesn't mean they have oneitis for some ideal family. Facts are facts. Even poly couples don't just go raising kids separately. As Ive told you before, you pick the worst kind of women to surround yourself with and date, is it any wonder you're thinking some chick is gonna screw you over? I BELIEVE you'd get screwed over, because all of these chicks so far sound like bitches. I'm not for monog or poly either way, but its obvious you're making excuses for the bad decisions YOU are making. Like, why on earth would you date a single mother casually? Like, where would you think that's going to lead to?

I know you cant be talking to fathers, because you know what you haven't mentioned ever? Fathers not seeing their kids. Because most divorced fathers, or fathers on child support that's what they worry about. Not the prenup, not whose kid it is, not that the wife left; they miss their children. Even stepchildren. Nothing of what you describe is the concern of men who are actually in the system for children; its just MGTOW rhetoric. I spent 2 years working with these men, and that's why I have to laugh at MGTOW. Because fathers, aren't against the court for the money coming out of their paychecks, or whether the wife is spending it on the kids; most just want more time with the kids. And your arguments are just "women have an advantage"; which most fathers in these scenarios don't even care about. Leave the MGTOW stuff alone; it gives a fake, disconnected view of actual situations where children and marriage are involved. Before you blame a woman's single motherhood on her being brat, ask yourself, maybe she was just a brat?

Lol. I tried meeting you half way Neo. I tried looking it at your perspective, I can't win with you. I never claimed to be MGTOW. They bash women and they abstain from having relations with them. As you can see, I don't do that. I cant respect a movement that calls women bitches, sluts, and every derogatory name in the book. I can't respect them and i won't raise such a banner. They are too extreme. I didn't need to be MGTOW to know marriage was a crap deal however. Once I learned that I was paying for birth control for women that is what got the wheels spinning. Not to mention questioning ladies nights recently etc.. just entitlement shit right there.


You are trying very hard to label me. Very hard. There are things I agree with and things I don't agree with. Some of my posts encourage empathy with women, and some of them tell men to be wary. You are trying wayyyyy to hard to pin me down somewhere to satisfy your rationalization. I acknowledged your way of thinking, but you still try to find some fault somewhere and anywhere. Just because you don't understand me, doesn't mean you have to label me. Just look at the points and that's it.

The unspoken amendment of course in the Western society is.....you know how that goes

I was hoping a divorced man or a father would share their story on one of my posts. That was the point. If he gave me a good story, I would have been like ah. Alright alright. Instead I have you to throw your oneitis marriage beliefs down my throat. Most of my posts are geared for men in the system to talk to me. I even asked if anyone heard from past PUA's who got married. For example, Slywalker, to share his experience, which would have been interesting to hear.

And all single moms need a babysitter to watch the kid or you can't really go out with her one on one. Unless you want to come over when the kids are sleeping or go on dates with the kids.

Like come on now lol. Lets be serious, it has nothing to do with immaturity and everything to do with availability. If you don't have experience with single moms Neo, don't comment. It's simple.

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Lol come on Mr.A. You cant be this hypocritical. You cant label me, and then say I'm trying hard to label you. Do you really not see how in this thread and the other you were the first to make assumptions on someone's viewpoint because it was contrary to your own.
The above is a sign of someone who cant manage their commitments and dating. You can very well say "whats it like dating a med student?" and include most of the other priorities included above. No. If you date a woman whether it be a single mom or a law student in her final year, both can find time if they are adult enough. The immaturity comes from the last line: which shows she has so little maturity to understand that you cant be available at the drop of a hat. That's NOT availability...that's an immature chick who isn't adult enough to realize her schedule and yours aren't going to mesh many of the time. An immature chick would expect you to, a mature chick will understand.

And yes, Ive dated single moms. All this bs you describe, is not my experience. Because I didn't mess with the single moms who were dependent like that or whose friends would even try to change my mind. I didn't mess with single moms who couldn't manage their time, or who would be unreasonable if I couldn't see them when they were free. Same way if I date a busy career chick, I don't mess with the ones who cant figure their shit out or who have unrealistic expectations. Its different than dating a regular non child chick for sure, but that's the difference between an emotionally mature single mom, and a high school mentality single mom.

Am I saying men should date single mothers? No. Same way I wont say men should date blondes or brunettes. If a guy is ready for the different relationship/family dynamic dating single mom's brings, fine. Whether she's single mom or not, you shouldn't date someone you're not on the same page with. And someone who is mad at you for unrealistic expectations, is someone you don't need to be with.

Look Mr.A, you can say a chick wasn't right because she was a single mom, or Western women are just xyz, or blame social programming or whatever else. But at the end of the day, you have to look at the women you are attracting and choosing to date. And that goes for whether your monogamous or poly. I really cant blame you for your views. You surround yourself with women who every single one of them sounds immature and selfish. I couldn't spend 5 mins with the women you describe, and if I did, I'd prob be pessimistic about dating in general. Ive seen too many women who won't take a man's money, and believe in fairness, to be pessimistic about marriage when I'm not even married.

You didn't need to respond in the other thread if you weren't arguing for men who wouldn't sign prenups. You only responded in this thread because I stopped going in circles with you in the last thread. I told you that there wasn't any point. I understood why you didn't want to sign one and that was it. I didn't agree with it. I understood it but I wasn't going to try to change your mind anymore or let you submit me in to compliance . I left it at good luck Neo. And that was that.



All you're doing now is trying to go in circles again. I am not going to do that in this thread.


You act like babysitters don't bail out at the last minute, or life gets in the way, or kids get sick, or the mom gets stressed out, or the baby dad starts throwing bombs, or this and that. You act like life is in one straight line. That's naive.

People change, priorities change. This is life. Shit happens. But not in your utopia. I am not going to argue with your utopia. I am glad you shared your experience but that's it.

But wait! There might be hope!

Maybe 5 years down the road I'll change...oh wait, according to you people don't change. People can't change. If I am this way I will be this way forever. Shit! Thanks Neo. You da best.

I guess im stuck here foreverrrrrrr

But I can respect your blissful ignorance. I think in a way you're happier not knowing. Which is something I will miss. Kind of like when I started PUA and didn't know heartbreak. Ah, good times.

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Haha Mr.A, you win. If you don't want anyone disagreeing with you, start a blog. You duck and dodge when your points are confronted, you dodge an argument, then go back to it when you lose another one. I've had to keep track of men should get prenups to protect themselves.....well child support is the issue...to you'll take care of another man's child...to "I just wanted opinions of guys who've dated single moms"...to "well you've dated single moms? Well I wanted fathers to share their stories." Its a headache man. I aint no single mom and I don't care whether or not you date one. But jeez, I figured you could discuss a point when confronted instead of dodge, label, and then say I'm labelling, then come up with reasons I shouldn't say anything lol. See how much of this is me saying "I didn't say that" and begging you to be honest? Do yourself a favor, do not bring up these topics if you are going to dodge. Jeez, I literally just said dating single moms is different, you say I'm talking like its a utopia. And where did I say people don't change? More lies. I say the chick is immature, you say no, I give my reasons, you move back to babysitters. Please, do not make any more of these threads when you just want everyone to say "yeah you're right!" Its not difficult to see this is just baggage carried on to justify fear of commitment. You're just holding onto that baggage and rationalizing that no, its not the ex heartbreak...you're polyamorus and the courts are what keeps you from commitment.And that's my explanation, because I cant fathom why a grown man would be so adamant to always justify why he does what he does. I can discuss marriage, and prenups and child support all day with someone who actually wants to discuss something. I can't with someone who thinks anyone who calls out my lies and hyperboly has "marriage oneitis."

To HT, I'm a "woman hater"...to you I'm a woman..... DEFENDER?

Now, since you said you wanted these threads to give you the perspectives of actual men in the system, let's see if you dodge them too. Nothing personal, I just cant understand why youd start a thread and whenever questioned on point A, you jump to point C.

So then what's the problem ? She has a job. Good for her. If raising a child is hard for her give it to the dad. Simple. I'd just tell the judge , think of the children . I'd be raising that kid to be a role model citizen[/quote]

Hard for her? Not everyone's income affords them everything a child may need. You don't know if you would or wouldn't, you are very biased. Nothing has happened but you already assume the worst has happened.
Often times, women sacrifice more for children than men such as working part-time or not working for extended periods of time because the couple cannot afford childcare.

I think single mom's are great.

1. Usually DTF

2. Busy with the kids. Can't be up your ass 24/7.

3. Great snacks in the cupboard.

4. Egar to please.

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Exactly. Perfect casual flings and fuck buddies.

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These two post sums up my feelings on the subject.

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What about the respective fathers?
If I found out the guy I was dating had a child, I'd be curious to know if he pays child support, if he visits the child, how often, how involved he is, etc. If he's avoiding responsibilities, chances are he's a bad match.

Then don't date him too....simple stuff

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I said that is the criteria I would use to screen a man. Not saying I ever dated irresponsible fathers. I'd be more willing to date a doting father than a childless douche bag.

Do you have any children........that you know about?

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