Well, I get what you're saying but that's how I feel and feelings aren't very rational. I'm not a saint, nor will I become one overnight. Only time will tell.

I wasn't making accusations. However, you do see the need for a prenup now, right? That would protect you too if the tables were turned.

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Even when they do ask for it, it’s a tougher job persuading the judge that they need it, as opposed to just wanting it for revenge. Judges are humans, and humans come with a host of preconceptions and assumptions about what men and women should and should not do – who should stay at home with the kids, who should work, who is capable of reviving economically from a divorce faster, etc.
^That sentence should be changed to most men hate depending on others financially.

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Sampling bias means some portion of the population was excluded in a way that affected the results. 2,262 is a pretty big sample that, if properly selected, could well represent the population as a whole. What evidence do you have that the sample wasn't properly selected? Are you insinuating that some specific group people didn't answer they survey? Evidence?

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I understand where your coming from but please don't give her an outlet to derail the thread. We were finally getting somewhere...

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See...again...I clearly said you were biased because you were over exaggerating the likelihood of situations. You were saying things were highly likely when your own numbers show them to be the smaller and in one case miniscule probability. I clearly explained that the bias was where you say something was likely at 35%. And its 35% by your own numbers. Ask a math professor what 50% for condition A + 70% for condition B equals. You keep avoiding that your numbers get you to 35% chance a woman initiates a divorce, and keep saying all the other tihings like its the higher probability. These are your own numbers, and when I say what your numbers show, you come back with emotional arguments such as I'm saying you cant criticise women or I'm saying it because your asking for equality? Seriously, please go ask a math professor if 50% + 70% doesnt get you 35% chance and is not the definiton of "likely." Then say he's against men for just stating the facts of numbers.

What "raw deal" are men getting when they get married? 35% chance she initiates a divorce. 10% of alimony in a divorce so 5% overall. 4% of fathering a man's child. And child support is not a marriage thing.

I think thats whats throwing you off. I'm not arguing many men dont get fucked. I'm not arguing that there's an excuse for a woman to lie to her husband. I'm saying yeah these things are fucked up but stop sounding like they're inevitabalities of marriage.

As Ive said, the court isnt concerned with responsibility in these matters. Yes, the woman has the responsibility, but the courts concern is the child's interest. You said paternity tests before marriage. There is nothing stopping a man from asking for his fiance to have a paternity test before he gets married to her.
All true. But as I said, the court doesnt care about responsibililty in these matters. You need to get that idea that child support is about assigning responsibility to the man or woman. Its about getting as much for the child. What your saying is 100% correct from a logical standpoint, but society cant run on 100% logic. If it did, we'd abort fetuses with signs of mental handicaps, we'd get rid of the homeless for not contributing. If we told chicks, they had no safety net, sure most of this shit with be fixed after a few generations. But we'd have generations fucked up with less money and support. Thats why I said, its not really a man vs woman thing, our society makes allowances, many times unfair ones, to not cause suffering to children and disenfranchised groups. The courts say " this woman is a peice of shit for cheating on this man, but for the interest of the child, we have to focus and get money from the man, because she's taking care of the kid and we cant have the kid be alone." If women were thrown in jail as men are for child support it would be 100% fair. But what happens next. Who's raising those kids? When the man is sent to jail, the kids are with their mom so it doesnt affect them as it would the mom. The child and their welfare is whats the concern in court.
What basis is going to be used? Ok, lets say shit were itemized, you had to provide receipts. Guy pays $500 a month, chick only spends $300 on the kid. First how do you estimate the cost of her physically being there with the kid? Is that at minimum wage? If she spends less, is the court then to give her less? What if she spends more on the kid? Does the man's exposure increase?
I dont know why you keep telling me your cousin isnt going to stay poor. I havent even thought of whether he is or is not.

Look, the nature of our society is:

Men on average make more than women.

Women naturally are attracted to men with more resources than they have. Even here, many said they dont care about shit like that.

In a marriage, 2 people share.

So these arent going away anytime soon. So the dating dynamic is set up so more women marry up financially. So in most marriages, her financial situation is improved. I mean, come on...these things I've spoken about are just natural dynamics in our society, but men like to act like oh the court is crazy for not treating them the same. Like a whole bunch of feminists infiltrated the courts and changed the laws to suit them. Like normal human biology means 100% of children come from a woman's vagina, so the court will never see the father and the mother as the same when it comes to the kid. And women who are naturally more likely to marry up financially...but there is some "conspiracy" if distribution of assets isnt equal. If you and I enter a partnership, I put up $1000, you put up $5000, and we say we are equal partners, if we sell the company I will have a higher return. If men tomorrow started giving birth, women would be on child support. If men started to find a woman's money more attractive than her ass, alimony to men would increase.

Its kinda like one time I was talking to a kinda feminist but cool chick about drunk rape. She said men need more education on rape for "drunk rape" ie guy doesnt know how drunk the chick is, thinks she is giving consent but maybe just tipsy, then drunk rape would go down. I told her simply...people hook up with alchohol at clubs, bars, parties. Its just how it is. A guy cant tell the difference, not because he's stupid, because there are girls at the bar fucking while drinking. That relates to your points, in that you're acting like natural situations ie women giving birth or women more likely to marry up, will not give them advantages in these matters. Men and women arent the same. As long as babies come from them, a judge or the average person if making a decision is always going to be more predisposed to seeing the mother as the more suitable custodian. These advantages women have, I cant deny them...but they dont come from feminists...they're just natural.
@Gum, Never said I will not get divorced. I'll make the best choice I can make for a wife, and wont waste sleep over 5% chance of paying alimony, or 3% the kid's not mine. As to child support, if I make a kid, 25% of income for a kid is probably what I'd spend on him or her. Sorry, I cant stress myself over these paltry stats and cries of what ifs. Lol, if I want a child and fuck a chick or wife and she gets pregnant, you think 25% is some raw deal for child care? Like you could stay married with a chick and expect to pay 10% of your income to raise the kid? Lol, like having a kid keeps anyone's income at the same level as before.

The average child support payment is under $500 monthly.
Average cost of raising a child monthly is almost $1500.

Simple math on whether a woman divorcing you and getting child support is living large.

Do you guys not realize kids cost money?

Honest question, what % of your salary would be spent on raising a child 50/50?

Neo, at this point you can sum up your argument as "man up" and don't sign a prenup. I was actually waiting for you to say this since page one, but you've just went into "think of the children"

here's a recent one.. Just sign a prenup Neo. You might even like that she might actually not be in it for the money and in it for you.

http://lawnewz.com/video/man-legally-fo ... s-not-dad/


that's all it takes Neo. I am not picking on the license plate lady, but she has her career and she admits that feelings can fuck up her judgement. You're still saying "if she believes in fairness" and still telling men to gamble their life's work on the hope that their soon to be ex-wife isn't having a bad day.

Under the law, she can do so, take your things. Women are protected in today's courts. Saying it won't happen to you is missing the point. The fact that it can happen at all, IS what I am trying to say. You're playing the lotto Neo, except you don't win anything when the marriage is over. Simple as that.

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Mr. A... Now you're being childish.

Where the fuck did I say man up or anything about men taking responsibility?

Where the fuck did I say think of the children?

Where the fuck did I say it won't happen to me?

I gotta cuss to emphasize now you've gone to making an argument for me and debating that.

As you said you've been waiting for my argument to be man up because you're not reading and just waiting to spit another case file.

I never said men shouldn't get prenups. I said I personally won't get one of I were married because of how I view marriage. I never said I wasn't taking a risk and even said many times that marriage is more so and emotional choice.

I broke down your statistics pages ago and you couldn't even say ok that's just math so it is 35 percent she will initiate a divorce so I can't say it's the more probable.

You couldn't even be fair with the math.

Show me where the fuck I said anything even close to man up and sign one. I've tried to quote exactly what you say and respond to that... Not responding to what I think you will say.

Mr. A if you can't even debate your points then keep them to yourself. Cause I never denied that your stories were false.. I never said something guarantees anything.

My argument so your clear and can stop lying is

You've over exaggerated the probability of a woman divorcing you and those are from your own numbers and mathematics.

Me personally if I enter an emotional decision such as marriage I'm not choosing someone who makes significantly less so if divorce does come it's not too bad. That's me and I've said repeatedly that's for me. Not for other men to not sign prenups.

The courts are corrupt but I understand that these are complex issues to judge as the courts interest is around the child.

Mr. A....i can say 3 percent makes something improbable and that doesn't mean it's not terrible. I can say it's not likely that I'd get eaten alive my a tiger but I have immense sympathy towards anyone who was eaten by one. You debate exactly like the feminists in that if someone doesn't agree with you taking 3 percent and making something sound like it's inevitable then you're a woman hater. No. I can say rape is low probability but that actual rapists should be punished harshely. Heck I even told you 3 percent is a small percentage but it's a terrible thing.

If you wanted to just throw out cases to scare people or have a men's rights pow wow fine...disregard math and say you have a 70 percent chance a woman will divorce you when that's not how probability works.. Say that 3 percent of men raising bastards means it's likely you'll raise a bastard. Say a prenup protects against child support.

If you really wanted to help men you'd at least be honest. You could say it's not highly likely you'd father a man's child but it's terrible the law allows this. You can say odds are in your favor a woman won't initiate a divorce but you should be protected. But no...pages later you still act like if I say the truth aboit your numbers im telling you some shit about criticising women. Your mentality is why things never change. Cause instead of being honest you prefer to dodge for the sake of it.

Can you be a man and say yeah it's 35 percent. If you're denying math then you're no better than the feminists. And to me its more sad to see a man dodge and deflect and change someone's arguments because he either hasn't thought then through or doesn't care to.

I've been saying this for awhile now. I said Neo, the fact that it can't happen to you doesn't mean that it should be allowed to happen to anyone. Just because I don't put it into that exact phrasing to make it sound all nice for you doesn't mean i haven't said that already. What was the point for going back in forth then ? If you don't want to sign one then, great. Good luck to you. If you weren't arguing for the men as a whole to not sign a prenup, what was the point Neo? I


I'm not arguing if marriage works or not, that's a topic for another thread. I am arguing about what happens after marriage. If you already knew the laws were in major favor for women, what was the point of trying to argue ? To sound fair ? To argue ?

I summed up your argument on page one for not signing a prenup as an emotional hope that she won't screw you over... and you could have just said "alright, well that's how i view it" and that's it. Then you started going on and on about your view on marriage is still that your woman doesn't change in the end. You're hoping she doesn't take you to the cleaners and I've said that the fact that you think you can predict a person from day one and their behavior alllllll the way to the end, if you guys get divorced, is naive. You could have just have just said "ok".

I have already addressed the issue on page 5. And kitty kat is directed to the license plate lady. If I have to be clear since you seem to overlook the tiny things. The 70% of women initiating divorce and who does what is a topic for another issue. I want to stick to why men should get prenups. I am not dodging this, the fact is that there is a lot of factors that can be taken into account for women initiating divorce and it can derail the thread. It won't be related to prenups. I want to focus on the law. So no, I won't I agree to your math right away, I would like to discuss that, but i am not denying with your math nor will I agree with your math right away.. Follow the thread Neo.
Your words. This is when I was thinking, Neo might as well say man up and take the plunge. Doesn't consider the consequences when the marriage doesn't work out.
I think this is very sweet and lovely, when you are in a non-married relationships. What if you are married ? This reminds me of when I lived with my girlfriend years ago. She was a small town girl and she was very nice, and I never expected her to be a monster when our relationship was over. Thank god we weren't married, but we were living together. At the end of the relationship she fell out of love and I was the one trying to make it work. We decided to part ways. We had a lease however so we tried to live peacefully with one another. I knew she was already gaining emotional comfort through other dudes. So I decided I was moving on. I talked to many chicks. She knew I had game from before we met. She got irrational.

She started being scorned because I wouldn't talk to her. I mean that's how breakups work, we don't talk to one another so we both can heal. But no, in her world, WE should be over it. SHE was over it, because she's been falling out of love during the end. I wasn't. Me detaching was the only way to free myself. I went to a psychologist for awhile, and I was diagnosed with ADHD. I mentioned this to her one day. She laughed and said I was just looking for an excuse. This pissed me off. So I pretty much called her an asshole and a bitch. Mind you, I NEVER treated her like shit during the relationship nor have I named called her.


But that one night, that one time, it was over. After that the next two months were a living hell. The house was a mess, she told me not to use her shit or her furniture. Even when I tried to reason with her and ask if we can at least split the chores in a reasonable manner she said she had better things to do....it was awful. She even bitched me out for feeding the dog a different kind of brand food because she got the cheap shit and I thought the dog deserved better quality food.

I WAITED a month, before i brought another girl over. She bitched me out for doing THAT. We aren't even together. This was a girl who was college educated, sweet, and I never saw this coming. Imagine if we were married ? She still screwed me over financially, after bringing the girl over, she was moving out as soon as possible. 3 months before the lease ended. I had to pretty much live on tuna and water for awhile until I moved in with my roommate.
This woman even took lawn furniture that we both paid for and I let her know that. She just scoffed and told me she was taking it anyway. If we were married, I bet she would have laughed and said it's the law


She was being petty at that point. Women get petty all the time. Not all but most. Even license plate lady admitted it, if she felt belittled, she will take that into account to take someone to the cleaners.

If you aren't arguing that men shouldn't get prenups then just leave at that Neo. At this point I already said good luck to you. That's pretty much what I will say to all the guys not doing prenups. Good luck.


here is the thread Neo. You were involved in it too

general-questions/topic186595-30.html?h ... %20contact

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License plate lady...what?
Okay, you guys live how you think it's best for you.
And I will live my life how I think it's best for me.

No ones judging you. We are just looking at the law and why prenups are even taken into consideration. And your user name looks like a license plate number/letter thing

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The title of this thread is "will you sign a prenup?". Your opening post asked whether others would sign one.

I replied that I prob wont, and emphasized over and over this was just my view for myself. Where was I ever arguing for men not to sign prenups?
Again, I never prescribed that men not get prenups. And its NOT emotional hope. I said, if I get married, I'll marry someone on my same income level who contributes close to equally. If divorce happens, things will be split. I CANNOT get taken to the cleaners if the chick has been putting in 50% into the house, cars and other assets. Now, some guys may not think like this and marry a chick that cant contribute equally. That's not me. And hence why I said this was MY strategy. Its not hope, its common sense.
See, this is why I think you should read it again. Right there I said So how on earth would you get that's me saying your cousin is right to take the plunge? Makes no sense you'd get take the plunge, when I'm saying his choice and yours and neither correct or incorrect paths.
I remember this thread. And the countless other threads you made on that relationship before the break up. This chick wasn't nice before the break up. Wasn't she going out with exs or talking to them? Wasn't there blowups when you were bringing chicks back to your place?

Mr.A, you gotta be realistic and perceptive in your dealings. And that extends beyond marriage and relationships. A woman can always fuck you up. Heck, someone in your life can always fuck you over if wronged or scorned. And just because you don't see it as you did something wrong, doesn't mean you cant accept how you handled something poorly. Like, your brought chicks to your ex's and yours home. You can see how that would send a chick into hate mode. And sure, it was fair what you did, but you gotta expect consenquences and fallout.

You moved in with a chick, way too early, despite many problems and her basically showing you she cared for herself, ie she was talking to her ex = fuck you. Then when it ends, you stay in the house with this chick, and bring chicks over which is obviously going to piss her off. And a YOUNG chick too. Now, say you 2 were married...would she have cleaned you out in a divorce? No. You split the expenses. She'd have gotten half you'd have gotten half. So even in the situation of an angry ex wife/gf, you wont have been cleaned out.

Thing is, a marriage is concerned with SHARING. If you pay for a house with your money for you and your wife, its BOTH of you 2's house. Its not you 2's house for the duration of the marriage, its both of yours house forever. If you want separate property and assets, don't get married. Just stay in a relationship. If I start a company, and I make you an equal partner for 20% of what I invested, well if in 5 years we have to sell the business, we both get 50% of the proceeds. Its not the law favoring you over me, its due the fact we became equal partners. If I didn't want you to get 50% proceeds for 20% investment, I'd make you invest 50%. Or find someone who would. But if I take you as an equal partner for 20%, its not wrong if you get 50% of the proceeds. That's how the law views marriage. That's why if I got married, that's the agreement I'm signing into to. If I buy a car, its not my car and she can use it, it automatically becomes our car. That's why prenups are so commonly not enforced. I'd say if you want to retain property, do not get married. Cause that's the agreement. And that's why personally, I wont circumvent the basis of the agreement with a prenup. Maybe a thread like this as HT should make you consider your qualifications for someone you marry. And that should be someone who puts in their fair share in the first place. If I invite you to my place and tell you whatever I buy after today is ours; its not mine and you can use it freely..its OURS. If I buy a TV, it becomes OURS. And if you decide to leave, you should have a claim to 50% of the TV. This is the difference between what most people view a marriage as and what it really is. Property acquired during becomes both. Even if you pay for it yourself, its 50% yours, 50% hers. And if you marry someone who cant invest equally, then that's your choice..it doesn't change how property is viewed. If you want to be able to retain complete ownership of property, do not get married.