Not that I want to get into this argument...but there is some truth to this assumption. What happens is that a man is married to a woman that cheats and ends up having another man's baby and the husband think it's his. Down the line, problems arise and divorce happens...somewhere in the process, the husband finds out it's not his child. The judge will often rule that because the husband thought it was his child, was raising this child, and had no problem supporting it while he was ignorant of the fact that it wasn't his child that he should continue to be the co-provider for the child because it's better for the child's emotional stability than ripping apart what he knows.

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I am protecting men who are being wronged. If it's their kid. Then they deserve to pay. If it isn't their kid, then why are the courts not so easy to let them off the hook. And what sucks is that even if they get off the hook they won't get reimbursed for the child support they paid leading up the the decision. The courts will still demand the guy pay up the child support even if they finalize that he doesn't have to pay in the future. They don't rewind time and give back the money the guy was paying while he was fighting the court to relieve him of paying child support for a child that isn't his.

http://www.menshealth.com/guy-wisdom/fa ... ting-fraud

Heres an excerpt from this article:

After recently reviewing 67 studies on the subject, University of Oklahoma researchers found that PD rates tend to be much higher among men who have reason to believe there's been more than one dog in the yard. No surprise there. But leave out these men and you end up with a number that can safely be assumed to represent the rest of us. That number is 3.85 percent. Another review of 19 studies by a group at Liverpool John Moores University backs this up, putting the figure at 3.7 percent of dads. It may not seem like a lot--until you do the math. According to a 2005 U.S. Census Bureau report, there are 27,940,000 fathers nationwide with a child under 18. That means over a million guys out there are taking care of some other man's kid. This would mean that close to 1 million fathers in the U.S. are unknowingly raising another man's child.


And to quote Jack, that's what tends to happen most of the time. The court does what's best for the child even if it's unfair to the man. It's de-facto slavery.

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That's how most of the divorces I've seen, go down. The dude is older and ugly, isn't even accused of cheating. Wife is just bored, hates him, and then tries to pull stuff. Alimony itself, I never commented on. Outside of California, it's not all that common. Cali has insane divorce laws. That's where a lot of the horror stories come from.

However, in asset division, and child custody/support, yes women are commonly getting pseudo-alimony.

In my opinion, women are actually more interested and less likely to divorce a guy who cheats on her. And she's more likely to stay loyal. Women who cheat usually do so out of lack of respect for their husband, that she now views as a loser. Hard to view him as a loser if he's out with someone hotter than you.

From what I've seen, woman are more likely to stay with someone who treats her poorly. And she'll endlessly seek his approval and do anything for him. Meanwhile, the guy who worships his wife and thinks she's his special little fairy princess, is the one who ends up being cheated on, and having her divorce him for no reason, and throw in a child molestation accusation for spice. Women seem to be more likely to punish a man for treating her too well, than treating her poorly.

So in essence, unhealthy marriages are more likely to stay together, while healthy relationships are(counter-intuitively) more likely to end. So you can have a long, bad marriage, or a good, but short one. A long, good marriage is very uncommon. Probably less than 1/5. Those are bad odds.
I've found that women turn on their husbands for literally no reason in most cases. He's the same guy he always was, and she now defines that as "shitty SPAM" because she wants something else, and he's not morphing into it.
Scientific studies back me up(references provided). Based on your replies, Neo, I'd bet money that you're in a year+ relationship, and seriously considering marriage.
You sound like me, a year ago.

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I would chop my dick off and move to the forest. you know, since yesterday my opinion changed. - bartm
A chick can have an ugly to average face but if she's skinny, that's a guaranteed 6. - HT23VWY67

And men don't get bored of their wives?

What about when she gets overweight?

Come on now, both partners get bored of each other. It's only natural.

And by the time she gets bored, like you dudes say, she's too old and wrinkly for another man to look at her LOL. Your words, not mine. So that leaves a woman until what, 35, to make a new move.

Don't derail the thread. Stick to the subject.

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Not as a biological reflex. All women get bored with their monogamous husbands, no matter what. This is demonstrated by cheating stats. Men who make it to 5 years without cheating, most likely never will. Nearly all women who cheat, do so at 5+ years.

Which is why marriage is a big mistake for men. Even when there is no problem, she will make one.

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I would chop my dick off and move to the forest. you know, since yesterday my opinion changed. - bartm
A chick can have an ugly to average face but if she's skinny, that's a guaranteed 6. - HT23VWY67

OK guys.
You win.
Don't get married.
Start protesting outside the city court house.

________________________________________________________________________

The courts favor the women in Western societies, and not all.

In Muslim countries, for example, the woman pretty much gets nothing when she requests divorce.

I wish. Men are so emasculated nowadays. Like I said in the beginning, men don't have the balls to propose a prenup. And that's the problem, if a man says this stuff he is labeled a misogynist , a woman hater like you've called me many many times, or someone who is bitter.


We need both genders to help. People will listen to a woman. That's the sad thing. The way the culture is going,
Women have to start helping the men out and give them back their balls. Or man just have to say enough is enough . I can't be the only man that feels this way.


And once again you are derailing the thread. I am talking strictly about Western countries.

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Our legal version of marriage was crafted for a different era. When divorce rate was %1 or something in 1825, it was fine. With %50+ divorce rate, and a legal system that's strongly biased in favor of women, it's just not smart to do it without protection.

You want to get married? Cool. But expect that odds are, it will end. The problem is the delusional thinking that marriage is for the rest of your life. It's not. Not in 2016. It's temporary, and while disposable, potentially very costly.

Of course some guys fuck street hookers without condoms and share needles. Those guys of course, should just dive right into marriage. They like irresponsible risk. And unprotected marriage is just one more leg of that thrill.

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I would chop my dick off and move to the forest. you know, since yesterday my opinion changed. - bartm
A chick can have an ugly to average face but if she's skinny, that's a guaranteed 6. - HT23VWY67

No Mr.A, you are twisting the stats. 50% chance of divorce + 70% chance your wife will be the initiator = 35% chance of your wife initiating a divorce. So divorce statistics prove YOU otherwise. Lol. You're scenario is 35% likely, and thats a straight fact. I'm taking YOUR statistics. So if you get married tomorrow, its 35% likely that your wife will initiate a divorce. Its 50% likely you stay together. And 15% likely YOU initiate a divorce. Who is the one thats emotionally hoping? If you got married tomorrow, you have a 65% chance of being ok. So from your own stats, more men are ok in a marriage than aren't.

Now, using your stats again, you have a 3-4% chance of fathering another man's kid. Dont get me wrong, I feel bad for any man paying for another man's kid or who has been deceived like that. Its dispicable. But its 3-4%.

So facts are:

You get married tomorrow, you have a 35% chance of her divorcing you.

You have a 3-4% chance of fathering another man's kid.

You have a 5% of paying spousal support, and that 5% includes the women who left work or school and a valid case could be made they deserve something, and the women who straight up dont deserve anything. So please stop saying divorce statistics prove this or that, when your own statistics dont (the spousal support one was mine).

Your scenarios are the minority. Your stats show that. Those are the percentages. Now you can say 10M men are going through xyz, but for the purpose of saying how likely something is....

look at the percentages

Lol, in fact, divorce rates are dropping due to marriage occuring later in life. So your 50%, more like 45% and thats generous. Now I wont do the statistics, but if you got married you have roughly 70% chance of being ok and 4% chance of paying alimony.

See, you guys' math(Gum and Mr.A) is all over the place and wrong. "Women are more likely to cheat"...ok, how does that equal an abisymal 3-4% bastard rate? "Thinking everything will be ok is HOPING" Well its not. Its a 35% chance. Your scenario is on the lower end. YOU'RE the hopeful one. I mean if something has changed and 65% doesnt beat 35% any day of the week. "Odds are it will end" Again no. Its less than 50% and 15% of that is your choosing. You dont need hope with these numbers.

Come on guys. You cant throw a 4% statistic to prove something is likely. Likely doesnt mean remote.

Now to say it factually: when you get married, you have a 65% chance of an outcome that was your choosing. Youre 5% at risk to pay alimony to her one day, and 4% likely to father a kid thats not yours. Now I would have no problem if you two had said there's a SMALL chance of these things going bad for you and a prenup is protection.
Nope, you sound like me years ago to be frank. But thing is I never was that extreme. These blogs and sites meant to scare you, get off of them. They're dishonest, cherry picking the worse cases and acting like thats even close to the norm. Yes, Ive read the horror stories, but its not the norm. Again, I'm just trying to be honest and fair. See how you linked a "scientific study", spread that to mean "science backs me up" and then quoted a PUA guru's words...trying to combine them to make a point? See how you said women turn against men, and linked something that spoke about them LOSING attraction...Not turning into child support wanters which was the conversation? Thats what I see with alot of the child support/alimony,/prenup stuff. See how you stretched that DATED 50% divorce rate stat to 50%+? See how all this talk of "odds are" and "more likely" are just statistics thrown to make something sound scary? 35% turns into 70%.


I have nothing against either of you,and no I'm not planning a marriage soon. You 2, gotta ask why you YOU biased, because thats where twisting stats comes from. I'd see nothing wrong if both had said the truth, these are some risks, they're remote but maybe we should still protect ourselves. But thats not what it was. It was over exaggerated, wildly, which either implies lack of information, or bias.

No, it's very useful. I needed a reality check. I already know couples who are mostly unhappy. It's not just a 50/50 chance of divorce. Plenty of other people also stay married while really not getting along. Way more marriages than %50 fail(even if they don't end in divorce).

If you accept in advance how poor your marriage prospects are, you're less likely to race off to a bad marriage. And if you're realistic, less likely to stay in a bad one. Having the sober, reality based view of the problems commonly found in marriage, is exactly what you need when signing a prenup. It's recognizing that things are very likely to not work out.

Even if your ex-wife gets exactly $0 from you, a prenup is useful just because it means you've taken a realistic view of things, and aren't pretending that "Things will totally be different for us. Our love is special and eternal!".

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I would chop my dick off and move to the forest. you know, since yesterday my opinion changed. - bartm
A chick can have an ugly to average face but if she's skinny, that's a guaranteed 6. - HT23VWY67

Biased? You pretty much just told the dudes who have to pay for another mans child "sucks to be you? idk man"

I HAVE nothing against marriage. I just don't agree with the laws at all. Its not fair for men. There's nothing in it for men. The reason I started this thread was to see why men, who are good with women, would agree to sign away their rights to a government that will help women out most of the time.

You even said the laws were pro-women. My argument has always been, sign a prenup to save you the ordeal that the courts will put you through just in case. It's insurance. There is nothing wrong with having insurance. If you are not married, she has no claim on your assets, nor you on hers. That fact alone makes rejecting marriage the smartest financial move a man can make. Even the prenups that I proposed have a chance to be rejected if the judge sees fit. It's not guaranteed but at least it is there.

I keep forgetting I am violating the unspoken amendment of "thou shall not criticize a woman" because somehow this makes me bitter, angry, misogynist, or biased in favor of men. I forgot men are also included in this amendment. Not just women. Thanks for reminding me Neo.

I didn't get 70% out of my ass.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/th ... -heres-why


http://www.livestrong.com/article/14610 ... e-divorce/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sol ... e-divorce/

http://www.menshealth.com/sex-women/wom ... e-divorces

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Psychology Today? Livestrong? Washington Post? Men's Health? Dude, you serious? You actually believe these little news flash sites?

90% of the content written in these sites is OPINION-BASED. One sentence is the stats and the rest is what the author thinks.

Please, I'm sure you can do better than that. Show me a legit research article from the American Sociological Society on Marriage, Family, and Divorce, or whatever the hell they have nowadays.

Please, use better more accurate sources. If I'm looking for stats on colon cancer, I'm not going to reference Women's Health, I'm going to look into The American Journal of Oncology or some shit like that.

"In a survey of 2,262 adults in heterosexual partnerships over the course of five years, Rosenfeld found that women initiate divorces 69 percent of the time."

When you're taking a survey, you're not surveying the whole damn country- every couple that divorced in every state of every county, and so on.

Surveys are biased because people either choose to answer them or not.

Don't tell me that 2,262 adults getting divorced represents the whole of USA getting divorced over 5 years.
That's called sampling bias.

Was every person that divorced given a survey as they were exiting the court room?

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/marriage_d ... tables.htm
Marriage rates double divorce rates.

Show me some actual government stats, not this phony shit sites.

The polls are skewed! Mitt Romney is gonna win in a landslide, I tell ya! A LANDSLIDE

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I would chop my dick off and move to the forest. you know, since yesterday my opinion changed. - bartm
A chick can have an ugly to average face but if she's skinny, that's a guaranteed 6. - HT23VWY67

You know what. I am going to stick to the law for now. I think who gets bored in a marriage is a topic for another thread. I don't want the moderators closing this one down. It's too important. Open one up kitty kat and i'll meet you there. For now, I am sticking to my original argument.

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