N2 100%

Mr.A, I urge you to think deeply on your own mentality, as your words reveal alot of insecurities and fears
What is the intention then? Already you can see that you view opening up as a tactic.
If you open up to a woman, and she doesnt hear you as a strong emotionally competent man, then you're NOT a strong emotionally competent man. Its kinda like on a job interview when they ask whats one of your weakness. If your weakness bodes badly for you, its because you havent or arent working on it. If you are a strong emotionally competent man, then you cant reveal that you're not one by being honest.
What is the intention? And why would there be an intention, besides opening up? If you open up and you wanted to, its done exactly what you wanted. If you're opening up to be put in a good light, thats weird.

Whatever you're afraid to tell a woman, its because YOU havent dealt with it. Lets say you hate your job. Now, a weak man, stays in the job he hates, makes no moves to get out of his situation. Now, he may keep his whining and moaning to himself, or wouldnt whine to his woman, but he's still weak and in a shit job. Or he may whine to his woman, revealing he's just a weak man who stays in shit and isnt proactive. A strong man, hates his job....but he makes move to improve his situation. So he comes home, and may complain to his woman, but he's also telling her how he is busting his ass looking for another job, or studying on the side for a new career. She sees his whining, but also his determination. THIS communicates, STRENGTH....not weakness.

If you have so many issues that if you told a woman, she'd be an emotional tampon...then maybe you should sort those out first. Its like saying, my car has so many issues if a chick knew she wouldnt get in my car because it could explode...well fix the car if its that serious before you put a woman in it. You're basically saying that you have way too many issues...but instead of focusing on the issues for YOURSELF, you'd just play the lets not talk about it with a woman. If you have so many feelings that after a first date your natural inclination is to unload those feelings, then you have too many issues.

Vulnerability can be a tactic...but come on. What is the point of all these resources, approaching so many women, reading all this shit and then having to settle for someone you cant even be real with?

Scarcity mentality. You can be bedding 100 chicks, if you're afraid they'd leave if you just be honest, call it what it is. Scarcity. Its like saying you have true confidence because you get women when you wear you 3 inch height increasing shoes. Its not confidence. You're just an insecure guy who gets women.

Abundance means you dont give a fuck. You do what you want to do, and are fine with people who dont like it. Lets not act like the community has progressed so much from the Mystery days when the mentality is just direct or sexual mystery method, posing as something better. Its not. Its the same old, lets place women on a pedestal, lets do xyz so they'll like us, and we'll act like we have real confidence because we're not running the cube on her.

N2 is speaking some next level shit; he's talking about living and holding the women you date to YOUR standards, not worrying about what this will make her think. He's talking about doing whatever you want to do, and fuck off to the chicks who will see you as weak for it. I was the same guy saying what you and Arch are saying long ago, and N2 hit me with that shit in a thread. I brushed it off as he's talking some psycho babble, till it hit me further down...I cared too much what girls thought. I was getting chicks but caring about how they would respond. Then patting myself on the back for having "abundance" when my mentality was in scarcity. Forget that shit. At a certain point, sort out your shit, be a strong man, and just...be... Fuck what she thinks. If you think telling a woman something makes you look bad, then either a) it reveals that you are weak, hence you should sort it out or b) youre handling it, and she's just dumb.

Guys say women are emotional...hence they open up easier....its not even that. Its because they have ABUNDANCE. They can be vulnerable and if you run, they are happier to find someone who they can be themselves with. Most of the differences you see, is not them being weaker, its them doing what you should be doing...not giving a fuck if you like it or not.

Can we please kill the mentality of "I'm afraid to do XYZ because she will think ABC"? If not, might as well bust out the opinion openers, negs, and magic tricks, 7 hour rule and stop fooling ourselves that these women are not the prizes. They still are. We still care too fucking much about what they think.

This post is gold

*delete

Hey Neo, don't be so cynical, Mr. Assertive is just asserting that women don't like men to open up to them early on in the encounter. No calculatin behind his question.
You don't fix people like you fix cars. Sometimes you just walk around with your back covered with scars, and it'll just take years for them to fade in.

As for vulnerability being attractive, it's like Nicolas Cage put it in the movie Joe (pretty much one of the only good Cage movies) on how to make a cool face: "Stand like you own land. Now make a face of pain. Now smile! Smile on top of the pain. You’re like, ‘I got a lot on my mind but I can get through it!" What's attractive is the hidden scar, the fact that behind the mountain of muscles there's a little boy crying. That gives depth to the persona.

And as N2 put it, I'd only be in LTR with someone I can open up to. And conversely I'd only open up to someone I'm in LTR with.

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We do what we have to do in order to do what we want to do.

You can't fix anyone really, only yourself and I think that's exactly what Neo's alluding too with his car analogy.

We all have wounds, nobody is baggage-free. Hell I still sometimes miss my fucked-in-the-head ex who I ran from 4 months ago (on/off 3+ years), and now I am courting a new woman who I like and is responsive to me so far. Timing is never perfect, you create your own circumstances. And yes, you can in fact heal your wounds and 'right' your attachment through a new relationship with someone HEALTHY.

My point is, it's preposterous to say "fix the car if it's that serious before you put a woman in it" or "you should sort those issues out first before dating a woman." You can't just drop everything, spend the afternoon thinking about your scars or doing a psychoanalysis with a shrink, and at the end of the day walk out with everything solved. It takes time, it takes years, and sometimes you just have no choice but to live with the scars.

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We do what we have to do in order to do what we want to do.

If you have a damaged self-image, in all likelihood you're just going to perpetuate toxic behavioural patterns into new relationships. I do agree in some circumstances working on one's self is best before getting involve with someone.

I have a friend who is a strong pursuer, she's 'pushed' multiple men away, they come back and she throws barbs at them when they do return. She has a pattern of finding guys who withdraw or become emotionally unavailable to her. She's now in a new relationship and I am seeing the exact same cycle play-out with this new guy.

She thinks that the other day the two of them having a heart-to-heart is going to change things. I know better, and that she's on a collision course with him for another fall-out.

You're talking about the far end of the spectrum of fucked-up-ness. But we're only talking about opening up, and that covers a lot more on that spectrum. You got a lot of decently working couples in which one or two of the people have scars, and have a fucked-up side like self-confidence issues. Having scars does not necessarily make you "perpetuate toxic behavioural patterns", not even in most cases.

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We do what we have to do in order to do what we want to do.

Not cynicism,just honesty. There IS calculating; I quoted those parts. You dont say "opening up doesnt have effect intended", and act like there is not some calculated motive there. Hence, I ask, what is the motive. If the "opposite" is they see you in a bad light, then you open up to them so they see you in a good light.
Take steps to solve your issues, scars, or problems. Its that simple. If you are taking steps to solve a problem, then a woman isnt going to see a weakness. If a woman hears you say "Ive been through these hardships and here is how I've overcome them, or am currently overcoming them" and she sees weakness, she's nuts. I gave the example last time of this guy I would hang out with. His mom died from a drunk driver when he was young. Because of the pain from his loss, he vowed to never touch alcohol, and if anyone in his home town needs a lift from the bar, he will drop everything he is doing to pick them up and make sure they get home safe. He goes to bars, just doesnt drink and everytime he talks to a chick, it comes up because they ask why is he not drinking. So he has to tell them the whole sad story, how much he misses his mom and all that, and how it motivates him to stay clean and off of vices and how he helps people now because of it. Do girls think he's a weak guy who is sad over his mom? No...he cant keep girls away. He's a guy who has taken his sadness and overcome it. RC had a line I remember, paraphrasing: it doesnt matter your hardship, as long as you're beating it and its not beating you. Tyler perry has no problem telling someone he was homeless, because he's overcome it. The guy who is still homeless and isnt making moves to get out of that situation, well he's the guy who pretends like everything is fine.

I'm really struggling to think of a hardship you can have, or have had, that if you are not taking steps to beat it, will make a woman think you're weak or be a bad thing. Maybe someone can give an example.

As to the movie reference...what are you saying? That you should hide your hardships, so women can feel more attractive to something that is hidden? How would they know something if it is hidden?

Start taking the steps.

See, you cant have it both ways. (Not you specifically). You cant say "if I were open with a woman, I'd be telling her almost everyday about my scars" and then act like these scars are just "there" and no big deal. If you would feel the need to cry to your woman every day about problems, will then you have some SERIOUS problems. If problems are hitting you every day or enough to where a woman would feel burdened from hearing it...how the hell are you LIVING with it? If your scars are bothering you every other day, seek help...you dont need to be dating. If they are "fading" but still there and bothering you once a month, no big deal to tell a woman.

The simple question is, why are you hiding whatever it is?

If you're a strong person, you dont care what she thinks. If you know you're strong, why would you care if she thinks your weak?

Thing is, I'm not saying just go spewing everything to a woman. Just dont be AFRAID to. Because, in simple terms, whenever you lie or are afraid to say something, unless its to protect someone's feelings I guess, its coming from FEAR. And that fear is what she thinks.

Whatever hardship you have had or going through, make sure you're in a good place with it. Because if you're good with it, fuck what she thinks.

Put yourself first. The end goal shouldnt be to be a guy who is still afraid of what X girl thinks. Eliminate fear and be comfortable with yourself. Maybe that means you're still working on some of your baggage, but be comfortable with it to the point where the only person's opinion you care abt is your own. It doesnt matter what youve been through or what you're going through...what matters is who you are now, and what you're doing. Fuck what she thinks, this PU shit is too much work to not go for what you want.

Who doesn't have scars. Some are actual attachment traumas, however, and require more attention.

Okay, fair question on your part, though I took it that Mr. Assertive's intent was bonding, not conveying value.

For the rest of your reply, I agree. I was just tiptoeing on the "drop everything and fix yourself first", thinking rather "go on with your life, and find time to fix yourself."

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We do what we have to do in order to do what we want to do.

As Eckhart Tolle says on relationships, they help shine the spot light on the self - really they can stir-up sediment on the bottom of the lake you weren't even aware of.

So, relationships can be a great opportunity to become more conscious, or delve further deeper into unconsciousness.


Eckart on the addictive quality of romantic relationships - difference between ego attachment and true love
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaRBWY-o8DQ

Well I was hoping to talk more about bonding than anything. I don't know about all this being afraid to lose chicks. Probably the opposite of where I am right now...


I think we are misinterpreting some things. I don't really care what a woman thinks about what I say or do... I am pretty casual about a lot of things. sometimes I don't express myself in the way I intended. I will say this, Neo is right about me viewing opening up as a tactic. I derive my success mostly by being mysterious. I don't really talk about myself because I get by most of the time avoiding such a thing. Not because I am scared what she thinks, but because I can usually find myself having her talk 80% of the time. Lately, I have been speaking my mind and being "honest" as some of you guys call it... because I just find it interesting to look at both sides of the coin. When I am mysterious the woman chases hell of a lot more but when I am pumping out my "true self" or "being real" she is loving the "honesty" as some of you put it but at the same time I can see that too much of that can backfire.... It's quite fascinating to see both ends of the spectrum. Usually my default mystery setting is my go to. Doesn't really backfire as I know when to pepper in some information to keep the party rolling.


The reason I said opening up isn't really useful (for me at least) is because it isn't what she really wants. Especially early on. Even when she asks such deep questions I just redirect such talk for a later time if I feel like it's too early to divulge such information... I believe in the whole if the keg is gone then the party is done phrase. She doesn't really care at that point, even if she does want to know about you. It's a tough sentence to grasp but it's been working for me so far. I usually wait to "open up" a little when there's some connection made. Even then, I don't see the need to keep it real.

Most guys tend to do these life stories, but for what. You're shooting yourself in the foot, hold back your cards and save them for another time. No point in being honest right away if you can keep stringing her along like a little kitten. Most of my girls don't really know much about me. It doesn't bother me. I do know a lot about them however. I think vulnerability has a place.

But what's more interesting is watching all the guys who are in long term relationships with emotionally abusive women. They are co-dependent with these women because these women get them addicted to sex. It's hard for a man to not feel so bonded to a woman with that much sex, especially over a year which is why many men have a hard time getting over their ex even though these women are not healthy for them emotionally. It's one of the reasons I don't like the word co-dependent. In the end women work the same. I find it more interesting that even thought these are so called relationships, a woman doesn't really want to hear about your gripes and troubles. If you feel down, I don't think women will try to make you feel better. I don't think it works that way. I believe that the opposite happen.

This woman that you speak of that genuinely cares about her man is a rare woman. They exist but it's like finding a needle in a haystack. When I meet such a woman then sure, I will fancy your co-dependence thinga majig. But for the time being, co-dependence doesn't sound like a good deal to me.

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