There's no reason to question anything. When a girl flakes early on, you say nothing, you do nothing. Act like a dude who has three naked girls in his bed when you reply to her.



My gf is extremely beautiful and 21. I'm 40. I know what this is like. Let me tell you, there is a big, big difference between a gorgeous 21 year old and a 30-something who's cute. If it's early, and you show fear/insecurities/ or try to RUSH THINGS, these 9's and 10's at that age will fucking eat you alive, man. You should hear the conversations I've been privy to by these girls and their girlfriends. It's evil shit. No mercy for weak men. NONE.

Here's what gets them:

1. Emotionally centered behavior.
2. Consistent orgasms.
3. Leadership in the bedroom and while out having fun ("Do you want me to turn you over and fuck you?" < grabbing her by the leg and tossing her around/ "Do you want to go to Bar X or Bar 5?" < "Bar x, 10 pm").
4. Teasing/playful, treat them as equal or a little bratty, not princess or pedestal.
5. Less texting/calling, allowing for space, allowing them to wonder.
6. Let the women bring up feelings and relationship talk. I've been with this 21 year old for almost six months (with a one month break because I was a cold dick). Just two days ago she told me she'd do anything for me and that she loved me (for the first time).

If you do these things consistently, The girl WILL bring up the "what are we" talk. They will see you as a cool, fun guy, a beacon in the fog. They will fear losing you.

You're right, your insecurities got you.

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a 40 y.o. with a 21 y.o. there has to be something stunted with you to be honest

A 21 y.o.'s mindset is COMPLETELY different to that of a girl even her mid to late 20s. This isn't even splitting hairs. TO have a FWB relationship with a 21 y.o. is one thing, but to strive for a mature relationship with one is asinine. You even confirm it with your playing on her fear of losing you to keep her attached. That in itself reflects massive insecurities on your part, and something a more mature (and older) woman wouldn't tolerate.

Nope. I just take good care of myself.

I'll ignore your weird, probing barbs for now. I date a lot, and this girl is the most mature I've been with since moving to this town. Women, by and large, mature much faster than men. And many women are looking for an alpha in great shape, and are little concerned with age. Women mature at different paces. Some are bookworms who want nothing to do with the frat boy crowd. Others mature more slowly. But in all cases, what they are most attracted to are men who act like men.

You simply can't use generalizations on mindsets.

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I was kind of understanding your mindset on this until your last sentence. You're theme is always "9's and 10's don't..." and "20 somethings will always...". Now it's you can't use generalizations on mindsets. It's just hard to wrap my mind around the contradiction here.

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I'll clarify:

I don't think you can use generalizations on how fast women mature. I've met hundreds of women since moving here, and the girl I'm with is the most mature of them all, and the youngest. She runs her own store, amongst other things, lol.

But when it comes to beautiful women chewing up and spitting out weak men, I think that's an okay generalization. It's the basis for why forums like this need to exist. I get invited over for girls night out, get invited to do shit with girls where it's only myself and their crew. The conversations are wicked. No mercy...none at all for betas. Lines like this, when a man came up to one of the girls and was roughly denied: "He was shaking, did you see that? And not looking me in the eyes. Fucking pathetic, like a little wet dog".

I asked her then if she enjoyed toying with weak men:

(with a gleam in her eye) "of course, haha. "


This is the real world. No platitudes. Be what you want to attract.

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Yeah, I get that women "talk" shit, but that's the extent. I've been around plenty of women that say big things but it is a rare thing for them to be outright rude. What they say socially when no one else is listening is a far cry different than how they act when the situation presents itself. It's an exaggeration of reality. There are some women that will toy with men, but those are called sociopaths.

TIP: Never listen to women's direct statements when it comes to men and dating because it's normally mixed with ego. Only pay attention to when they talk about how they feel when they're not being asked. That's when the truth normally comes out.

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A lot of that is true. But my point is that women are not flowers or princesses. They are tough, and you have to be tougher. You do this by being emotionally centered, friendly indifferent, and speaking in a calm tone.

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That's all fine. You're describing how some males may get success with women. When you describe women in an unrealistic way, you breed an unrealistic image to the noobs that have no experience with women. All of the posts that you see on the forum of these guys who say they've approached the so-called 9's and 10's, I can't recall one of them that has described an attitude where they've been figuratively chewed up and spit out when things didn't work out. It's only the guys that say that they "specialize" in these types of women that describe such volatile reactions and behaviors.

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Yeah, alot of this when it comes to these "9's and 10's" sound more sociopathic, than girls just being a bit tougher. These always sound to me like "here's how to get a girl, where you'll be miserable trying to get and keep and have to walk the tight rope." Ive known and dated many 9's and 10's. "Tougher" than you think would be chick may say a guy was ugly behind his back after she gave him some bs excuse; "getting off" of toying with men, just sound like emotionally immature sociopaths. I dunno, I never see the appeal; personally I wont be around shitty people even if they arent being shitty to me.

I'm in the middle here. Women are definitely manipulative if you wear your heart on your sleeve. Even listening to wing girls will let you know that they see things just like anyone on this post and they are just as critical when a guy makes a mistake. They understand when a guy is going to get laid and when he fucks it up. My whole life I've listened to some women be outright treacherous with their judgments. In the end, they want you to succeed just like the guy wing man but when you fail they aren't pitying you. Maybe it's just me but a lot of me ex girlfriends definitely played games with the emotions if they saw the opening, but that's true of people in general. It's a way to interact by knowing hot buttons. Women love to feel in control.

Wrong on so many levels.

Weird is preying upon emotionally immature women. But I guess you're on an even playing field with them being 40 with the emotional maturity of someone in their early 20s/late teens. You have a few absurd belief systems.

There can't be complete generalizations but if we are questioning if women disrespect men, then it can be certain that some do or have. Yes, not everything mentioned there is true. I'm probably not in the place to make comments based on my proximity to a girl who certainly was this way to me. Having broke up last weekend. However, it does happen.

Void, usually you give interesting advice. But you seem bitter and have taken things personally in this thread. Rough week?

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Truly attractive women want an alpha, almost 100% of the time. When I get complacent, you can feel their mind spinning and see it in their eyes "is this man weak?". It's not really on purpose, it's just biological.

Men are the ones who usually get dumped, and mostly it's because of beta backsliding.


Any guy who is an 8 can get away with eternal betaness when dating a 6. But when you grab yourself a truly beautiful woman who knocks you out in bed and in general, you have to be the guy that she was initially attracted to more often than not.

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