I needed to update this thread. As I delved more into polyamory the way I have been doing things came to fruition. On social media, one of the girls I was dating posted a status on Facebook about how a dude told her straight up that he likes to have more than two girlfriends. That dude wasn't me it was another dude. You know what the girl I was dating did ? She condemned the idea and told her whole friends list that she blocked his number. And this is the kicker, there were plenty of people, both men and female, who were hoorrayyiiing for her and applauding her action.


The irony. That's what I meant that you are going to lose against societal programing and antislut programming if you do it right out from the gecko. She added that in there too (I don't like to share) and the i don't need a man (blocked his number quick).

The funny thing is I am doing what that guy is doing (dating more than one girl) but I nonverbally said and subcommunicated it through my actions and attitude. Yet, here she is still trying to see me and saying hi to me every now and then. It just proved that women work indirectly and will accept more than if you outright tell them that “Hey, sooo once we start dating, it’s going to be an open relationship and I’m going to have sex with other women.” Say that, and likely all ten women will be offended and you’ll never see them again. Just like the girl I was seeing.

Think it's dishonest ? To you it is because you are thinking like a man and not a woman.

Lets take another girl I have been talking to. I told her I will be in her life as long as she doesn't give me drama. I will hers romantically and as a friend. She told me that she doesn't like to share and she has a problem with a guy talking to other girls. She then asked if I heard what she said. I said I heard. I DIDN'T agree nor disagree and just simply said, remember what I said. She changed the subject. She got what I was saying, that I didn't want to talk about it anymore.

Now this only works for a certain period, eventually you will have to verbalize it. I will post another update a few months later on this.

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Hey Mr. A, a question, cause it doesnt sound like poly to me.

Are these women OK with you seeing other women, meaning they themselves dont want exclusivity

or

Are these women reluctant about you seeing others and wanting exclusivity but like you enough not to risk pushing it for a while?

Because it sounds like the latter to me. So for eg, the facebook chick...if you DID start seeing her again, would her thoughts be "I dont want exclusivity so I'm fine with Mr.A sleeping around" or would she think "I cant get exclusivty from Mr.A so I'll take what I get." Its fine if you're poly, it just sounds like you're getting the lifestyle you want, at the expense of women who themselves dont want that lifestyle. If these girls are bringing up commitment then its a sign they arent satisfied as you are. You're not liberating them from the shackles of society or slut shaming when you avoid the conversation; you're ignoring their needs for yours. Which is your choice, it just doesnt sound deeper than that to me

It isn't at their expense. I have never once had a girl who was involved with me and I acted this way tell me it was a negative experience. They know what I am doing without me verbalizing it. I am not avoiding the conversation at all. I am being indirect with my answer. It only looks like I am avoiding because I am not talking in male language. If I have pictures of me littered with me hanging with female friends on Facebook or if other girls are commenting on my statuses, that is evidence that I am seeing other women. Even further evidence is when I am not contacting as much as the usual dude and other things expected of a male seeking a monogamous relationship. More evidence if I keep condoms in stock at all times. Girls take notice of this. They aren't stupid.

I do not acting like a boyfriend (now that I know what buttons not to press). I am acting like a lover. I am not pushing any boyfriend buttons nor am I doing any monogamous behaviors like telling her I love her or I am falling for her or setting any rules.

I am not trying to liberate them, they can live in Disneyland for all they want if that is what will make them happy. I am simply living the lifestyle I want and they can be apart of it if is their decision to do so.


You'd be surprised at how many of them come back to me down the road. If it was truly at their expense, they wouldn't care to keep in touch with me. But I have never given them drama, cheated on them (I never promise monogamy, it is impossible), nor try to control them. Some of these women get boyfriends, break up and then come back. Others really want that monogamous relationship and I let her go. I want them to be happy, so if they really need that monogamous title, then she is free to do so with another man. Some of them do have that yearning and that can never be fully erased from their brains. I have come to terms with that which makes doing this a little bit easier.

I am pretty sure some of us don't like monogamy deep down. These girls will tout their "monogamy" at me because that is what is expected of them to do so by society as if it is either a relationship or sex...two choices instead of looking it at as sexual relationships which includes sex anyway, if a girl was to ever say "I want to have a polyamorous relationship out loud, you know how that will go down in the face of society "slut" "whore" "sidechick" etc.


Are these women OK with you seeing other women, meaning they themselves dont want exclusivity?

Women DO agree to relationships like this, just as long as YOU structure them correctly, starting from the very first date. Women are trained to turn that open relationship from the gecko. As from my example the girl I was seeing was quick to strike that dude down. My girl isn't probably okay with it, but I haven't verbalized it. I have just been doing it. She has been following along so far. Eventually the talk will come but it won't be for a couple of months, that is when you will have to verbalize it. Before that three month mark you just label it as dating. Most women I have said this to have been fine with that.


or

Are these women reluctant about you seeing others and wanting exclusivity but like you enough not to risk pushing it for a while?


They are usually not too reluctant before that three month mark in my experience. They ask but I brush it off indirectly but answering their question. A fuck buddy is an easy one. That is where you state what it is and they either take it or leave it.

As for women you are dating, you actually have feelings for, I usually just tell them I am not monogamous and I never will be. I will tell her I want to be happy and that I support her decision and tell her I care about her. She probably will be upset but my past girlfriend started off this way. She was fine with it but she wanted to be the main chick in this. Unfortunately, I was inexperienced with all of this and i got myself into a long term relationship with her. But now i know where I went wrong there. But you are right, she was reluctant.

And as for the Facebook girl, I am still seeing her despite her posting that status like two days ago. I have been seeing her for 3 weeks now.

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As an admittedly inexperienced poster, I'm open to correction on anything I post on here. However, I wonder if we shouldn't be discussing what Mr Assertive has done to elicit a response like this from a poster who has been bitchy to every guy who's tried to reason with her. Perhaps HT whatever you could enlighten us on this. Neo for example has written some killer posts explaining why everything you're saying is wrong, and you're completely unmoved. Mr Assertive writes in a completely casual and amoral way about fucking lots of women and doesn't care what you think about it, and you're fascinated. You start qualifying yourself when any guy who's bothered to argue with you on here gets the full force of your contempt. But a guy who has nothing against you but is too busy fucking other women to really be bothered what you think, you want to know all about him.

We all might have some ideas why you're reacting this way, but it would be better to hear it in your words. What is the appeal here? Please try to explain to us why you feel such contempt for guys who try to reason with you, and such fascination with guys who couldn't care less what you think. Thanks.

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If something's not fun, it's not worth doing

If three different people witness a single event, there are going to be three accounts of it which can sometimes vary greatly.

What is right....depends on YOUR reality. My reality is not your reality, and vice versa.

What works for you may not work for me, and vice versa.

And lastly, the" full force" of my contempt is really minutiae compared to the essay long insults typed by such righteous men.

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If something's not fun, it's not worth doing

Analyze that. Thanks.

Well for the grown ups in the room, I do think Mr Assertive's approach is instructive, if he/you will forgive me for saying so. Kind of reminds me of Hunter Foxe. I, and again, not claiming to be an expert, tend to think there's a zen level of self-love that is perhaps what we should aiming for here, a point where one is so in tune with one's own desires that any criticism of them seems like a pedantic detail.

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If something's not fun, it's not worth doing

I agree with the creating a stronger emotional connection comment. If a woman tells me she feels like a piece of meat or she feels like it's all about sex I'll always do what my gut tells me to do - sometimes it's to make a conscious effort of letting her know I care about her as she's someone I enjoy being around. This includes asking her emotion-evoking questions (though I tend to keep them positive - the best part of her day, her gals, what she's passionate about, etc).

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It wasn't a criticism. It was a few questions.
If I say I don't like to eat broccoli and I just can't get myself to do it, but you can, do you find that insulting too?

See you back on the forum in a couple of years bro, after the failed marriage lmao

I saw in some manual a suggestion on how to open the MLTR discussion with girls, but I didn't check it out. Call me naive but I'm sure there's a way to verbalize it, although I have yet to find it. Not that I haven't tried, but the attempts went like this:

- 1st try: "Let's be sexfriends!" (lol was I bold at that time) Result: the girl goes crazy angry, I agree to be exclusive, the relationship does its time, two years later we keep in touch, we tell each other about the people we're dating, we have sex when we occasionally meet (we're in different countries), and she calls me her "intimate friend" (guess she doesn't like the word "sex").
- 2nd try: "If someone asks me if I'm dating someone, I'll say yes; if someone asks me if I have a girlfriend, I'll say no." Result: she replies "I don't understand." End up cheating on her.
- 3rd try: "I don't care about exclusivity in a relationship, to me the most important thing is the care and attention you have toward the other person." Result: "I agree, you're right" and two weeks later I hear from a friend's friend that she thinks I want to marry her because when strolling through the city we stopped at a wedding party leaving a church and I said it was a cool place to do a wedding (at that time I was working part-time in the wedding business, so I became sort of a conoisseur of wedding places). Obviously she didn't get it, I end up cheating on her.

Next time I'm thinking of trying paraphrasing Vincent Kartheiser, finding a pitch that includes "I don't own your vagina, you don't own my penis."

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We do what we have to do in order to do what we want to do.

It will actually be 6 months pal. You're too sweet.

and to reply to what Don Horneone has said, yeah it is pretty instructive and I do remember Hunter Fox. Back in the day all that stuff would go over my head and I was stuck in the social programming. Not anymore. I've been a go with the flow kinda guy.





The frame that I always keep is the Mr. Steady Alpha Male. I am actually pretty vocal about who I keep in my life. It doesn't have to be her but I can use friends, family, etc. I usually just talk about how I have unconditional love for someone but they will never control me. I actually feel gross when someone tries to control me or manipulate me, I don't want that kind of life. I do what I need to do for me and because I need validation somewhere else.

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I take it as an example as I'm too quick to get into fruitless arguments. Twice yesterday I had arguments with people online where my instinct told me at the outset that nothing could be gained from talking to this person, but for some reason I went with it anyway and ended up being the loser. Bad habit. I like the way you handled this thread and the casual indifference with which you responded to some comments. I think being willing to argue with people is a BIG DLV if I can put it that way. Letting people have their say and just brushing it off makes you stand out, and to be frank, I think the "have it out with someone using reason and cleverness" approach has been used a great deal on this forum, often with dubious results.

To put it even more bluntly, is it worth trying to reason with women? Like at all? Or is it better to get in a different headspace altogether. Genuine question for you Mr Assertive. The woman who posted in this thread isn't willing to bear witness to her own responses honestly, so perhaps you could advise from your experience of how you find it best to deal with women who give you shit or act up.

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If something's not fun, it's not worth doing

LOL, yep....'cause you sure got a lot of shit with my responses.
I'm willing to bear witness as far as my reality is concerned. Yours might be different. Different strokes for different folks.