I have been dating the same woman for about a year and a half now. She has a kid from a relationship that ended 7 years ago, right after the kid was born. He's out of the picture and hates him. However, she started dating someone else 6 years ago and broke up with him about 9 months before she met me I think (he was a former friend). Her daughter saw him as a friend (only real male figure in her life) while they dated and every once in a while, she (the daughter) asks to see him (the boyfriend of 6 years) and my girlfriend takes her to see him (as far as I know, it's happened twice since we met over a year ago). I don't really like it. When I brought it up, my girlfriend said "it has nothing to do with us". She still talks with this guy every once in a while as far as I know. I don't really like it (was once a friend, then became a lover, now back to just a friend). She (my girlfriend) has told me that once it's over, it's over (the lover part) from her perspective but I just don't like the guy "being around". But me not liking it makes me feel like I'm some insecure loser so I've generally just let it go with the attitude of "if she's dumb enough to cheat on me with him, then good riddance." I don't think it will happen, but I'm just not a fan of any kind of communication with an ex like that. She doesn't see any issues with it (hell, she still talks with her ex husband that she divorced over 10 years ago) but I don't have any issues with that. It's just this guy she was friends with, then dated, and she's still in communication with.

Any advice beyond what I'm already doing?

First off...you are a fucked up individual to have the desire to keep a kid from someone that was part of it's life since they began forming memories. Secondly, you chose this girl to be your girlfriend and if she's doing something that you don't like that's in the best interest of her child then find a girl that fits what you want. Act like a man and do what's best for the situation and not what's best for you.

Yeah, harsh...but there's a kid involved.

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Yeah, this isn't about you two, as she said. Quite frankly, you're being the insecure "loser" that you don't want to be. You don't want this guy around so that you don't fear him swooping in again, as the child sees him as an attachment figure, which could lead to her reconsidering because the child's future is most important, etc. Right. She says it's over, then it's over. That was years ago. Trust her. If she cheats, then she cheats. Better to have trusted her and she made a mistake while you were a secure individual than you act insecure, she doesn't cheat, and kicks you to the curb. Don't make this a self-fulfilling prophecy. The kid is what's best in her life, and you come behind that. If the child wants to see the other guy, then so be it. It's healthy. Respect that. If you don't, you'll be the one to go, not this other guy.

Good stuff. Thanks for the tough love.

While I agree with Jack, I just want to add something. This is a complicated situation. There's a kid involved. Trust is one thing, but both sides, you and your gf, need to handle this, if it continues, like adults. You're in a serious rs with this woman, it should be treated that way. Taking her kid to some old friend/lover is her right, but not a good dynamic for her relationships. She needs to find the balance where everyone is on the same page, you know the guy, maybe you're ALL there when he sees the kid. Same way if this guy were the kids father...she CAN keep you 2 separate, but for an overall healthy dynamic, especially for the kid, at this point, there should not be this void between you and the kid's father. If he's her friend who sees the kid, just as any other friend, hopefully you arent a stranger to the guy. Just as if this were her female friend, hopefully she doesnt have female friends that you're not cordial with and hang with sometimes. If she has female friends that you dont know, then the relationship dynamic is messed up and not showing signs of long term. Some of this may be your insecurities, but may also be her not handling the situation correctly. Im assuming your serious abt this woman, and if things are moving to one day being a family, then things should be handled closer to FAMILY, vs seperation. She shouldnt be behaving like "this is my business" and if thats the case, then she's not thinking of you and her being truly together.

Hope this makes sense. Im just saying that yes you should understand doing whats best for the kid is important, but also, whats best for the kid isnt mom takes me old bf and new bf isnt included. If mom is serious abt you enough to bring you around her kid, she has to quit with the "this has nothing to do with you" shit. Because if thats the case, fall back, because you're not on the same page.

I say this,because personally, if I were a single father, I wont be taking my kid to an exs while with someone else who is in my kids life, without making sure that my ex and new gf were all on the same page. We'd all do things with the kid sometimes, my ex would know and be cool with the new chick. There wouldnt be this dynamic of seperation.

Well put. I second this.

Thanks everyone. I told her I have no issue with it after initially being a little taken aback by it (so I'm being honest with her but not making it an issue). As far as I know, she (the daughter) has seen him twice (Xmas and bday) in the 1.5 years I've been with her (the gf). My GF made it very clear that there is no chance in hell she'd ever get back with him and that I should be totally secure about it ("I will never sever a relationship my daughter has without her wanting it to happen" . . . the same goes for her biological father, when she asks to see him, which is extremely rare, my GF will take her to see him but never alone and she has made it very clear to me that she can't stand the guy and there's really no relationship there - with him or with her daughter). I'm handling it as Jack said: "do whatever you want, your loss if any hanky panky goes on" . . . I trust her. Our relationship is solid, we are always communicating/checking in how we're doing, etc (we are both very much in love with each other). I just think the only "issue" I have with it all is because of my own insecurity (personal flaw, I tend to be quite narcissistic) and I don't want to bring that noise into our relationship as much as possible.

There is nothing wrong with how you feel.

I think you're more of a sucker for tolerating something that doesn't agree with you than for feeling a way about this whole thing. I personally don't deal with women with children because of the complexity of these types of situations as you can see here. But I always said, that if I dealt with a woman with a children it would have to be a situation in which the father is not in the picture. I just don't have any interest in getting involved with back and forths, and other men potentially having some say in what it is I'm trying to build with the family (if it goes that far). It's just too complicated of a situation and not something you have to settle for when there are more women out there.

I wouldn't go for it. You have to take a stand. You're either going to put your foot down and let her know that if you're going to be involved that it has to stop or you have to go. The relationship with the outsider and the daughter is only going to get stronger and stronger the more they hang out. Its not like the guys her actual father. Its a sticky situation though man. I will say though, that if you "tolerate " this against what you feel to be acceptable, her respect for you will lessen day by day, you'll find yourself with a oneitis case in which your egos damaged by the way you're being treated; resulting in you "wanting her back" which is really just you wanting a position of dominance again so you can feel better about yourself.

Its a sticky and potential serious situation, but if you're serious about the girl, serious decisions have to be made.

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Thanks, Eddie. I need to be careful here for sure. It would be easier if she just said, "yeah, ok, I respect your wishes and I will never take her to see him again." However, I don't want to create this "power struggle" between her kid and me (I'm the adult, right?). And, you're right, it would be easier if I didn't date someone with a kid (I have one from someone I was married to for 15 years, so I understand). I want to keep things harmonious there and just be secure about it all. I also found out recently that she had been engaged with this person "off and on" over the 6 years they were together. She said he just wasn't right for her and it was hard to get out of it bc he was so entangled in their lives, primarily being the only real male figure in her daughter's life and she (the daughter) loved him (still does).

Her daughter is her priority, rightly so. And I'm trying to balance my understanding and respect for that with my own needs.

Here's an email she sent me recently about it all actually:

"Matt, I truly try every week to get time alone and if I do, you are invited. <her daughter's name> is not wanting to go to other people’s homes and she doesn’t like many people watching her (very distrustful and really just wants to be with me, always). I try and take time when I simply can and as I stated before, Helen <the daughter's favorite babysitter> had jaw surgery before we went to Napa… She is just now getting back into the swing of things. I feel as though you think I don’t WANT or TRY to have one on one time with you and that simply isn’t the case. I am starting to feel bad about it all to be honest, you deserve someone who can perhaps give more or at least not have so much strain on their time… You said once that if you didn’t have a kid, you would have never dated someone with a child due to this exact issue. Once upon a time you did have <my daughter's name> just about full time… Now you don’t. You have more free time on your hands and can do more. I on the other hand still have my babe and that isn’t going to change. There will never be shared custody … This is it. My life. Trust me, I wish I could drop everything and come downstairs to be with you or go see a movie late in the evening or just go have a drink. Wish I could go on walks whenever and as far as I want to. I wish a lot of things but again, this is my life. I wouldn’t change it although it is hard on me… <her child's name> is worth it. I love you Matt, I truly do. But I am starting to think I am never really going to be enough for you. I will never have all the time… Hell, I barely have a moment to myself. Something to think about."

My response:

"A couple of quick things from me . . . while I'm bouncing between meetings . . . just getting back to my computer now, but let's keep talking whenever you want/can . . .

- I think you're mis-remembering (interpreting?) what I said about not dating someone with a kid. What I said was that IF I didn't have a kid, I wouldn't be able to understand what it takes (the time/energy/effort) to raise the child (in the way we both parent - very actively) and so it's a good situation we find ourselves in (that you have a kid and that I have a kid and that I completely understand and empathize w/ your life - I think I was saying it as a GOOD thing, a good match). And I still feel that same way, very much so.

- As for you feeling bad, I'm really sorry. I also wish the same things for you, but I also very much know what your life is, and I know what I was "signing up" for or I would have "bounced" a LONG time ago. I'm not asking you to change ANYTHING fundamentally about who you are or your life where it is right now. My email below was just stating what I want (had nothing to do with you or judging you or your life or anything - just stating a fact that I would like a date with you, that's all, whenever I can get one, preferably soon . . . AND I appreciate your efforts to try to make it so. End of story, nothing else there, no other lines).

Bottom line: Of course it's up to you where you want to go from here, for you. With us. But, for me, I'm all in! And I have been for a long time. Your day to day availability, the time you can give, etc etc does not change that ONE BIT.

And I also want you to be happy. And if you're happy with me, and I'm happy with you, and we are both madly in love with each other, then I don't see the problem. The only "problem" is that we both wish things were a bit different from time to time (I wish I made more money and were taller and and .... and you wish some things were different for you - hell, I wish we would have met 10 years ago but we didn't so, again, I'll take you NOW . . . HOWEVER, I can get you . . . WHENEVER I can get you).

YOU ARE ENOUGH FOR ME. If I made you feel otherwise, then shame on me. Because that simply is NOT true. For me.

Anyway, just clarifying what I said/want/feel because I always want you to be clear on where I'm coming from. "

Her response to my email was: "All is well love."

<To clarify, she lives above me in the same apartment building and we get together about 2-3 times/week, almost always with her kid (as you can see from the email exchange) in the last few months because of her kid being very attached to her and striking out on babysitters. I think she (my GF) sees it as a temporary blip. I'm trying to stay patient.>

^

Its already happened/happening.

Not to mention, if you think that "other guy" isn't going to manipulate the situation with the daughter to gain more access into the woman's life as well as the little girls you're a fool. Its a card he can play whenever he gets lonely and/bored. Im not trying to be cynical here, but I know men. And unless he is saint paul or this man is happily married / in a relationship with another woman and likes to bring the little girl around his children and his wife's home to show her what a family is suppose to look like that is exactly what will happen. Men want a ROI, a return of investment. He can throw the whole " I took care of you daughter when no one else did" card in her face whenever he needs a favor. We're in america here, not some utopian society with strictly enforced moral codes. A 9 month relationship means what? The girl will grow up to have shorter and longer relationships with guys that she will forget all about shortly after.

You're allowing yourself to be manipulated, and so is your girlfriend by whoever this is. And the loss of respect has already started to take place. She's already excusing you from the relationship. Its all manipulation. You're afraid to let go (clearly from your response) and you'll be taking on a ride and then left until you get a backbone. I cringed reading your response. I had a feelings this is how things were which is why i replied the way I did.

You're on a pick up forum bro. I know you've invested a lot, and are in the swing of things but you have to be wiser than this. You're making excuses for yourself, her, the child etc. and you're not going to lead effectively doing so. The little girl will be a lot more confused seeing two different men coming around that she will with just one. I don't like it. And I advise you to walk now if you have the strength to do so. She's already preparing you for a potential disappointment. Thats a strong warning sign. Remember I said that..

This is your next door next door neighbor bro and there is already talks of why she can't spend that much time with you? I know you're smarter than this man. I've been with two women for an extended time that had a child sometime ago and ironically enough one of them was a next door neighbor. Been there and done it.. Its a not smart thing to do when emotions get this intense, it makes getting over the relationship a huge obstacle.

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I hear you, Eddie. I really do.

Ultimately, I just don't think it's any of my business. She can do whatever she wants. If she cheats on me with this guy, then that's her loss because she knows it will be the end of it with me. I told her that I'm an "all in or all out" kind of guy. I'm not really ready to give her an ultimatum, I don't really believe in them (as far as I know, she hasn't brought her daughter around this guy since we've had the conversation). Anyway, she can do whatever she wants to do, and I will do whatever I want to do is my attitude. Cheating is one of those things that we have both agreed is just not allowed and will be a deal breaker for both of us (she has some friends who are in open relationships and she is very clear with me that that is NOT anything she wants, at all, as I have said it is something I will NEVER do and she agreed - "I don't share" is what she's said, so).

I don't believe in ultimatums.

I state what it is I want and thats it. If my request can not be met I simple just walk. Theres no " Either this or I'm going to go" thats corny. I just tell them what it is. And i don't think it's a coincidence that anything I'm willing to walk away from if it's crossed(without having to verbalize it) is never actually crossed. Its picked up on by their intuition. They know what they can and can not get away with based off of the vibes you give off.

A woman's compliance levels is tied directly to the level of respect she has for you. Her love is also tied directly to her respect levels. Once her respect for you goes, her love for you goes out the window right along with it. If I say something as simple as " Can you get me a glass of water" and she says " Get it yourself" there is a lack of respect there. I don't go onto say " If you don't get me the water I'm going to leave you" that'd be weak. Upon receiving such a response I'd simple ask her to leave (if its my home) or I'd leave (if its hers) and that would be the end of our communication. Im not blaming her though. I blame myself for not setting the standard early on in the relationship to set a foundation that would enable high levels of respect. Once the foundation is properly set everything else will take care of itself. Simple maintenance is all thats required.

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Eddie, I agree. I think she respects me.

But, I've truly let it all go. She can do whatever she wants, I don't really care. If she wants me to stay with her, she knows what is allowed and what isn't.

I just don't understand, as I said in my first response, is how you choose a girl and then decide you need to change her to fit your needs. The smart way to go is to find a girl that fits your needs so you don't have to change them after the fact.

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Your need for security isn't being met. So either learn to deal with your insecurities (if she hasn't cheating you yet she deserve the benefit of the doubt), or go find someone else who has no exes lingering around.