I didn't put myself in your place and have no reason to. I said that you met a girl and you didn't understand what was going on. I even told you why your story didn't make sense. Others have stated that it didn't make sense. When you attempted to explain what happened in more detail, it made less sense. You in turn asked what I would have done and when I answered, you put yourself in imaginary shoes.

Your original post is a fundamental lack of understanding of what's going on with women are talking to you. Your examples of what shit tests are not shit tests. Your story about the girl you dated for 9 months is a comedy of errors that if avoided could have resulted in you dating her six weeks earlier.

1. "I only buy drinks for women that I'm dating," is an asshole response and caused her to feel rejected so she walked because of it.
2. Talking to other women the following week in front of her after you rejected her made you more attractive.
3. Saying "buy me a drink?" is a way to keep flirting with you but you didn't flirt back because you couldn't tell if it was her flirting or an inside joke between the two of you.
4. Her friends had to give you an excuse to act.
5. You finally bought her a drink and she finally felt some interest being returned from you.

You may have been there but you still didn't get it. Even if you get it now you won't admit it. You were more concerned with keeping a strong frame that you nearly missed out on this girl. All of the pieces of truth were in this story from the beginning but you put it together in a way that protected your ego. You think that passing a shit test (or at least what you think is a shit test) is what made this girl want you and it is the thing that made this a six week process. You're lucky her birthday wasn't the week before you met her.

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You've raised some interesting points there. I appreciate that talking to other girls would have increased my pre-selection (and I'm sure it did) but why on earth would you buy a drink for a girl who you had just been told tooled other guys for drinks? It doesn't make sense to just drop into another girls frame, especially if it's directed towards tooling you.

The opener I used was a specific validation inducing one which was even more likely for her to establish how compliant I was to her, so not buying a drink was in my opinion at the time serving a good purpose.

The girl wasn't a "six week mission" to pull, just something that was going on in the background.

Not caving in to her drink demands in effect became a reason for her to continue flirting with me in the weeks to come, It became a ritual but due to other events going on at the time I didn't wish to escalate things further (which she later told me felt strange as she thought I was undecided on if I was interested and what was the reason as most guys were). My reasons for not escalating had nothing to do with her lack of desire for her - they were just situational and logistical- but she construed my not buying her a drink and not moving things forward as if I was somehow vetting her as a prospective partner.

The funny thing is, after we had dated a few months I said when I first saw her how she looked like a grade A bitch and she was quite surprised and in reflection said she actually liked to do what a guy told her to do and for him to make the decisions and what not as it made her feel safe, but was frightened of trusting a guy with that sort of remit in case he let her down.

In reflection myself I realised that's why she was such a ball buster with tests.

What do you think?

I'm not saying that you should or shouldn't have bought her a drink. I'm saying that your response to "buy me a drink" made you look like a dick and she walked away. I'm not saying that you turned it into a six week mission but instead unnecessarily prolonged the process.

It all makes a cute little "couples" story that you guys would tell other couples, but as a pick up artist it's pretty weak. The weakness was caused by you and you alone. She was interested, whether she admits it or not(women also have egos that they protect), because of your opener and conversation. You took something as a test, and like so much of the bullshit advice out there, gave a smart-ass response that didn't allow for her to recover.

If you didn't take this as a shit test and just gave her an answer, instead of a passive aggressive comeback, she would have continued to talk to you. Winning the frame did you no favors.

I'm going to say this again. She wasn't asking for a drink to tool you. She was seeking validation. You didn't have to validate her with a drink, but you could have given her a reason to feel validated.

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How do you become impervious to any attacks on your manliness? I mean everyone has chinks in their armour. Is it to do with the ego or what?

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Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit

Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost.

Women that are into you don't attack your manliness. If your manliness is being attacked, it's disinterest and you are likely wasting your time on this specific woman.

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By having boundaries of what you will and will not accept, testing is par for the course but if it turns into an "attack" then just shrug your shoulders and throw them in the discard pile.

An interested girl will give some mild pinging of your boundary just to make sure you are who she thinks you are and will usually drop straight into frame unless you fuck up.

A neutral girl will test more heavily but nothing nasty as she's just evaluating the situation and it could go either way.

Uninterested girls won't test you at all, but uninterested plus projection issues sometimes go to far.

Think of them as doing the time management for you and just walk away.

Wait. You said that women do this to test your genetic value and to make sure you can protect loved ones. Now it's to make sure you are who she thinks you are? Although your new statement is still a little bit off, it's good to see that you're getting close.

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Huh... I'm still confused. When you kept your boundary ie not buying her a drink.. You didn't get her. When you bought her a drink you got her. I just don't get the logic.

Let's say I go to a job interview and I dress really well. A month later I still haven't gotten a call back. I call the company and they hire me. Well I can't say that dressing well got me the job because the fact is they never called me back. If anything I can say that following up got me the job over my attire. You're connecting a boundary that despite holding for multiple times, didn't have the girl come up to you and say I like you or even give you an opening. Shit test threads are typically soooo vague with words like test and boundary and not a concrete example of this phenomenon. If this girl had come up to you after the 5th time you refused her, I'd say you may have something. But if she didn't this shit test passing is hardly an example of something that generates any interest. If you still had to go up to her and buy her a drink what did the shit test passing really accomplish?

I could point to so many things in the story that made this girl OPEN to your advances (not super attracted if you still had to walk up with a drink)... Familiarity, pre selection or even the fact that she's in a bar all the time doing the same thing and just was ready to meet someone.

I would like to find a good example of a shit test somewhere but it's always the same thing.. Vague talk and contradictions to make something simple seem more extreme than it is.

It means that she's testing your frame and the person you're putting across to her is the real you, and not just a persona. You could be just anyone. If she's interested in the first place (for whatever reason) it's just an unconscious reaction to give a mild evaluation test to ensure you're not a weirdo.

The best mindset bar none is to see yourself as the selector in the interaction. Although your metaphor is a loose one; If you see yourself being "interviewed" by the girl to see if she will "allow" you to date her or get in her pants then it's not going to work as well as YOU being the selector and YOU doing the interview. If she doesn't entertain the idea then shrug your shoulders and find someone else.
"still"! Seriously?

Like I said...different than your original statement. The thing that you don't understand and continue to not understand is that if they are trying to test for the real you, it's because you did something to make them not trust the person that you are presenting. The fact that you have changed your original premise takes away the need to set boundaries.

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Melo, I can't quote but in response... You're the one talking as if the girl is the prize hence my analogy was from that frame of mind. If you are passing a woman's test.. By that logic she is in control. The moment you frame it as passing a test or being tested and how to deal with it... She's the one selecting. She's the one testing. And you're advice wasn't to not be tested.. It was how to pass. So let's be honest that your frame is of making her choose you.

Even in your example... You bought a girl a drink that she didn't earn by your rules. She wasn't special before you paid for the drink. She wasn't your gf and she hadn't earned a drink. No mention of oh she had bought me drinks before and was a cool chick. Or she had helped me get in the bar a few times. This was a chick at the bar tooling guys and chit chatting with you to ask for a drink and leave. How was this a girl worthy of a drink? You may say well it was her bday well then it's ok to buy any girl a drink for her bday. And a chick who is tooling you for weeks to get a free drink is far far less deserving from a random chick. You bought a drink for a girl who had nothing to deserve it. And yeah it worked out for you. But come on.. Let's not act like you were the selector or that was your frame.

I have a selector mindset and if I had been you at this bar first thing is I would've said I don't want a chick who is at the bar tooling guys for cheap drinks. I don't want a chick who is fishing back and forth for attention. THAT'S SELECTING. I would have never bought her a drink because she didn't deserve one even by your account. And if I did buy her a drink and hooked up I won't tell myself that I selected her or that I had strong boundaries because I gave in and got her a drink but 6 weeks later WHEN SHE WAS THE SAME CHICK 6 WEEKS AGO. Read that last part again. She still hadn't done anything to deserve a drink. Nothing. She still didn't earn a drink. You even told her you don't get drinks for girls you're not dating.. But you DID in a few weeks when you still weren't dating. Come on man.. Can't you see how weak your boundaries look when all that changed was time? And the fact you still got her just shows that it wasn't your boundaries.. Be cause yo broke your own rules.

If a girl comes to me at a bar talks and asks for 10 bucks I tell her no.. She walks off. She does this a few more times over weeks. She has done nothing for me. One day on her bday I walk up and hand her 10...where are you seeing that i showed strength of boundaries? It's funny and cute but as a boundary useless because this girl doesn't deserve a drink on day 20 any more than she did on day 1.

Do you actually approach women? Believe it or not Jack they have been approached before and they've been burned before. You're a complete stranger to them, you could be a really handsome guy but women are weaker than men and every guy who approaches them is an inherent risk until he's tested (this is why pre-selection works; other women have done the evaluation for them). An interested woman will give you a cursory test just to ensure you're sound of mind and have reasonable social skills then drop into the next phase of the interaction.

It's just how the dynamic works.

Neo. The whole point of boundaries is to be unaffected by the woman's tests and if she does go too far then next her. It's not a pass or fail on your behalf it's just who you are. Your boundaries will in her eyes pass her test but the two internal reference points you each hold produce the same result.

Your boundaries are outcome independent. You can't help passing her tests but her tests aren't the reason you have them. They're just YOU and how you are.

Next time you're gaming a 10 try it if she pulls some shit call her out on it. Their mouths drop open and they either walk away or drop totally into your reality and apologise. If they apologise they become really turned on for you. If they walk away they will try to make you jealous with another guy and watch you all night then make a play (usually bringing back up what you called them out on, but really a reason to get back talking to you - if you're with other girls even more so).

If this happens then they're 100% DTF, 10's have high self esteem so they're not seeking approval.

As Genoda put it.
In reply. By being unaffected but if she goes too far she's nexted.

The definition of a boundary.

Yes, I approach women all of the time and in all types of places and that's how I know that shit tests are bullshit excuses invented by guys that teach flawed techniques that revolve around dishonesty. Like I've said from the get go...a guy that doesn't misrepresent himself doesn't have to worry about being shit tested or even realize it's happening. I'm sure if I did misrepresent myself and a woman caught onto contradictions or lack of congruence of things that I said or did, she'd probably start probing more to find out the truth.

But now you're all over the place with this shit test stuff. First you say they test for dominance, compliance, fitness, and nuclear. Now you're changing all of that to say they test for their safety and none of your examples that you provided suggested that they shit test for safety. I'm sure the girl in your example felt a lot safer because you didn't buy her a drink. Nothing says run for your life like a guy that buys her a drink when she asks for it.

The only real example of a shit test has been the questioning of you in this entire thread and you can't remain consistent. How can you teach someone how to hack a shit test but can't even pass one that has been given to you.

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But....that's not what you did, nor what happened in your story.

You DID NOT call her out on her shit (ie trying to get a drink off you)
She DID NOT apologize, nor took any action the multiple times after you kept rejecting to show you she was more attracted now.

NONE of this happened in your story.

You are literally saying I passed this girl's test multiple times, yet I only got her when I submitted. If passing this test was you not buying her a drink, ok, you passed it. But she didnt apologize. She didnt watch you all night. Your example is in direct contrast to your philosophy. You "passed" the "test" for weeks. Fact. Did she come to you after this time? No. If the test was were you another "beta" who would buy her a drink when she asked...you "passed." Then why were there no results from passing this test? You talk about how buying the drink collapsed her frame...no...you had already done that the multiple times you refused her.
I quoted the above to highlight how untrue what you're saying is.

You really see high self esteem as a girl who from your story, goes to the bar constantly to get silly validation from dudes buying her drinks. This represents a woman with high self esteem to you? See, it's ok to say words, but think about the truth behind them. Do you really think a woman with some confidence, or self esteem, spends her time having conversations with guys so she can get a free drink? You think a woman who needs validation like that represents high self esteem? You think a confident woman does that? See, if you look at the hot girls as prizes, you mistake their actions as being confident, but when you date them you realize the ones who do these things are just insecure chicks. I'd be the first to say, if I had to go to the bar every weekend for validation, I couldnt lie and tell you I was confident in myself. See, you were looking at her as a prize. I wouldve thought "damn...she really gotta have conversations with guys to get a free drink like that? Is she that immature? She's out here all the time having to talk to lame dudes for a drink? Every weekend? Damn....6 weeks and she doesnt have someone? Is no guy sticking around? She's hot and going to the bar all the time...still no boyfriend, just these orbiters" And I wouldnt describe a chick who needs to get validation like that "high self esteem."

You bought her a drink.

You weren't dating

She was not "special" to you at this time

You bought her a drink

Can you not see how you broke your own boundary? In a thread on the importance of BOUNDARIES?

You set the rules for a drink to be given, she didnt meet those criteria in 6 weeks, you still bought her a drink. So why are you saying that this has anything to do with boundaries?

As Jack said, you've been so inconsistent. Even in your own story, you gave the chick who was not your date a drink, after telling her you only get drinks for girls you're dating. That is an example of you breaking your boundaries.
She doesn't know your sound of mind and reasonable social skills from talking to you?

She doesnt know your sound of mind and reasonable social skills from seeing you there every weekend with people?

Nah...she needs to throw a "test." So if you were just a broke dude and refused her out of shame, you'd pass this test just the same. And I'm gonna play by your rules. If its about safety, then going back on your word, ie only buy drinks for dates, would have had the opposite reaction because thats you showing you dont even stick to your principles.

You didnt stick to your principles.

I will repeat this...you went back on your word. How is that a signal that you're a safe or sound of mind dude?

Look, the truth in what you're saying is yes, there are some girls who "shit test" by your definition. There are some girls who walk around the bar weekend after weekend, talk to guys to get them to buy them and when they do they leave, because they feel validated from that. PU has a sick way of taking things that apply to the insecure hot girls and theorizing and making tactics around how to deal with insecure immature women. It's not that she's keeping orbiters and tooling guys because she has low self esteem...Nah....she's shit testing dudes looking for an alpha male! Enter XYZ evolutionary theory. It can't just be that some women play games and emotionally messed up. Nah, she's shit testing you. Cant be some chicks are just rude people and will say something disrespectful. Nah, shit test.
Most women, including hot ones, arent as complicated as guys make them. Fun, good sex, an attractive dude, someone compatible. Some chicks, including some hot ones, like drama. They like playing games. They like making you jealous. They like pissing you off. And its fine but my only issue is when you try to normalize this negative behavior of some women and excuse it because you dont have standards in the first place. Or when you try to make it about confidence and self esteem and healthy emotions, because 9 times out of 10, the girl acting bitchy with you, the girl trying to tool you for a drink, the girl trying to make you jealous has issues and is more insecure than most women. And thats fine. Just dont make it about self esteem or boundaries, call it what it is, a subset of women who like drama. A subset of women so insecure that they need to play games. A girl who does have a bf or is not interested. Or a girl who due to her own issues needs to play games by saying she does. Or a rude girl. Or a girl with so low self worth, she needs to trade 5 mins of talking for a drink to go back to her equally vapid friends with.
It reminds me of one night I had met some PU guys on a rooftop bar and they opened a couple of girls. I was sick and just stood there with shitty body language. Didnt really say much and answered questions awkwardly to just have no one talk to me. The guys are being social, fun, without trying to hard. End of the night, one of the girls takes my phone number and was texting me about meeting up. During the week she's texting me how hot I was and trying to set up a date. Didnt really like her so just stopped responding. The next week I see the same guys and Im telling them about the chick. They're telling me wow your game is on point. I'm like nah...she just thinks I'm attractive. They're like no...women dont care about looks, blah blah evolutionary psychology alpha male stuff. I'm like nah, you guys were much more "alpha" that night and social, she's literally texting me how hot I am and laughing at everything I reply back to. They kept on nah nah nah. It was so strange, like they couldnt believe that looks matter, because a book told them it didnt. Me being lame that night, just meant I was the alpha somehow. It wasnt about looks. Thats what these shit test threads remind me of. They're rationalizations to make something simple extra complicated. When you break them down, they come down easily because there are so many holes in the theory. Melo, I appreciate your honesty but even you have to see how everything contradicts the thing before it. And even then, the examples dont line up with the theory.

I read these threads and I think "yeah! women like drama" when I'm dating the waitress who has 5000 instagram followers or the hot chick whose dad left when she was 10 and she sees a therapist. Shit tests and games 100% with those women, thats why I dont date them seriously anymore. When I'm dating the hot girl with real self esteem and no baggage, its night and day. And there are more of the drama free non shit testing ones if you go for the non bar regulars. Its more of hi, get to know each other, fuck, have fun and no drama than a girl giving out a scan-tron at the bar, where the passing grade is to not buy her a drink she's asking for.

I didn't read all the posts, but I will give my 2 cents.
An insult is only an insult if you feel insulted. That being said, it seems obvious that the setting of boundaries, though obviously useful, isn't related to shit tests.
An insult isn't a shit test.

Every time someone insults me I just ignore. 3 years ago, when I was single, I talked with loads of girls. I was always with girls. So I became used to all the kinds of shit tests and other crap with the purpose of trying to fuck me up. I made fun of that.
One time I met a girl (who had some history with me). The first thing I said when we arrived at a coffee shop was: "hey waitress, I'm gay, but I need your opinion. Do you think that my little sister would make a fine model?". As minutes went by, I sexually escalated while having fun with her. I didn't notice shit tests, because I was used to them. It became natural to deal with them. When we got back to my car, I tickled her and smelled the back of her neck. She became excited. No, I didn't kiss her. I wasn't attracted.

If a girl tries to make me buy her a drink, I only say "sure. First buy me one and then I'll think about buying you one.". No need to be upset and call on her shit. Why? Why should we do something with a negative prospect, when we can do the same while having fun?

And insult is only and insult if the victim feels insulted. Otherwise the one who's trying to insult is just being a moron. That's my boundary: knowing not only who I am, but also what I am not.