Unless you're going out to dinner with a woman who's a close friend we've known for years, I fail to understand why a guy would take a girl out to dinner just for the hell of it.

if she said, "I'm never ever going to have sex with you, but I really appreciate you taking me out for dinner", and you knew you were getting nothing in return, why would you take her out for dinner?

Would you do this with every girl? What makes her special that she is deserving of a dinner over all the other girls you know? why are you taking this particular girl out for dinner?

I just don't get your mentality lol. I'm trying to understand it, and I want to, because it may have a valid perspective.

It's because the original post was:

"I've heard that if you pay for a girls meal and drinks right away, they love it, but view you as either 'conquered' or a tool.

For many reasons, I'm inclined to have us each pay our separate way.

What are your thoughts on this subject?

Who should pay?
Does it matter?
How much does it matter?
If you don't pay their way, is that alluring to them or does it repel them?"

Which is basically, "what is this woman going to think of me if I take her out and pay for her meal? I need to make sure she has a favorable impression of me.", and also communication is manipulating a woman's perception of you so she will like you by doing what you believe is the "perfect" thing to please her mind so she will like you.

if you're not dating or fucking, and you're just friends, the answer is obvious - you go out and split the bill evenly, there is absolutely no reason not to treat each other as equals in this case.

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My thinking is that when I ask a woman out, I've already established attraction. There is no misconception or misinterpretation of a date being about her and I. When it comes to sex, I pretty much plan on having it but I think it's more important for her to feel like it's us being in the moment together. There is nothing like giving a woman the feeling that you couldn't resist her. I guarantee that she won't be coming up with excuses if she's in the moment.

I don't normally do dates either, but the subject was about paying. It was your premise that you strike a deal to have sex before paying for dinner that doesn't make sense to me.

I think the biggest problem that I have with your approach is that it builds the mentality in a woman that sex is a reward for doing something for her when she gets pleasure out of it as well. Now you're paying for dinner and she's rewarding you with something that she would likely have done without going to dinner. Why would she want to have sex with you without you filling her belly or buying her drinks beforehand after you set that precedent. She'll always have the argument that she wants to be happy too, so pull out your wallet.

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I say always before we go to first fay to the chicks, look there are 2 roles for men in relationship, a provider and a lover, i ve never been provider and never will be. Chicks get the message and they try to pay.

I accept or not, it depends on chick but as a result it is my decision.

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Psychal power comes through Mental strenght.

Spot on. Men ask the woman to dinner, not the other way round. Just pay it.

I'm still confused, why are you taking her out in the first place? To be a nice guy? Has she done something nice for you in the past that you're paying her back for (which is totally understandable)? Are you just randomly rewarding her for nothing? Do you want sex her? What is you're motivation: "I'm taking her out to dinner because..."

I'm saying this because many women will "date" or "be together" with a guy in situations like this, accept the dinners and shit, then go out and fuck other guys behind their back, and if you're okay with that happening you're, not to be mean because I've been there, a pussy who sets yourself up to get used..

She would want to have sex because she is TURNED ON BY DOMINANT BEHAVIOR.

That's like asking why a woman wants a cigarette, even though it offers nothing in return.

Same reason she'll run back to her ex who does NOTHING but treat her like shit from the nice guy who buys her dinners (it's so common it's cliche), because she is ADDICTED to his dominant, alpha personality.

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Women are turned on by men who have hard, throbbing cocks. Alpha men who have limp dicks do not turn them on.

Moreover, women get wet gradually while men get hard instantly. If you cannot isolate a woman and give her ultimatums like: "If you won't suck my cock, then I won't pay for lunch." that's counter productive. You've got to marinate the woman first with patient physical and mental foreplay, then you pull her to your apartment.

I don't mind paying for the steak and red wine as we bounce to the grocery after going around the mall as long as she does the cooking at my apartment. You know, you gotta eat after a bout of hard core pussy pounding.

Once you make a woman really horny fer yah, you can ask her to import a full-sized Kobe heifer from Japan and she'll gladly spend her money for you as long as she can afford it. Yeah, women are willing to buy you a dozen cows as long as you fuck them good and they have the means to pay for your indulgences.

To emphasize: spend your money to isolate her, make her horny during the bounces, then get her home so you can fuck. If you fucked her good, you'll get your return on investment way much higher than Warren Buffet does.

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I LOVE this man lol. Someone who gets it!

I can tell you've actually been out there, and have the real life experience from getting burned a few times.

I understand where most of these guys are coming from, cuz I used to be in the same place, but I feel like they're living in a fantasy world where they don't realize the reality of how viscous these women can be.

Honestly I empathize with them, and I can tell, all I wanna do is help.

I love women. I have a couple female friends who I do take out who I've known for years, and we are friends, but we always treat each other as equals, they've rarely broken promises, and gives back like I give to them, but that is exceptionally rare, and until you know this woman really well, and that for YEARS she stands behind her word, it's too dangerous to take chances.

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You do realize that his was the opposite of what you said right?

I think you're confusing dominate behavior with masculine behavior. Women are more likely to be attracted to a man who has masculine behavior and tend to be more submissive to them. Dominate behavior doesn't mean shit if a woman isn't already attracted and willing to submit. Trying to dominate a woman that hasn't willingly submitted will always be met with resistance. Even if you "negotiate" dinner for sex does not make you dominate because it's a needy tactic disguised as dominate behavior. It allows you to be rejected under the guise of being direct. It's fear based.

I'm starting to get that you've been hurt and your approach is more driven by insecurity rather than confidence in your seductive skill. I don't have a problem with taking a girl out and leading it to sex without telling her it's my expectation. An ex that she may have feelings for is not even in my equation...call it confidence.

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he said he doesn't mind paying for dinner as long as she does something in return for him, and if you can isolate women and give them ultimatums that's counterproductive.

He saying he's willing to spend money on her, but he is also expecting something in return.

We have some differences in our approach, like he spends money to isolate her, but he still is making expectations of her in return, such as that he'll pay for steak if she's going to cook dinner.

I'm not trying to say is woman verse men, or pay or don't pay, or take a woman out for dinner don't.

All I'm saying is when you give something you have the balls to expect her to play on an equal level, and tell her to give is much as she takes.

Otherwise what are you doing something in the first place? Just to be a "nice guy"? if you're doing something for one woman, why not do it for all of them? It means you're looking for something from that particular woman, and you have the balls to tell her fair is fair.

There are some differences, but in general the underlying mentality is exactly the same.

He's not just giving things away to women, and I have nothing against taking women out to dinner either, what I've been talking about the whole time is the idea of taking her out and not sitting any expectations that she is going to also be nice and do things for you as equals.

I may have missed something, and I may be wrong, I am wrong sometimes, but can you please show me what I said that is office of this approach so I know what I'm missing?

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The major difference is one is realistic and the other is not. Getting a girl to cook food that you bought is much different than telling a girl that because you are paying for a date that she'll owe you a blowjob in return. The first option still leads to sex and the second makes it an ultimatum for sex. Ultimatums for sex do not work.

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I'm curious, because I had different experiences than what your describing. What was your experience last time you tried this?

And you're right, I should've been more precise - it's more of an art.

Before dinner, I will stop off somewhere, I won't just ask for a blow job, but when I stop off with her by a beach or wherever, I will start telling her openly and honestly what I'm thinking, usually how beautiful I think she is, all start complimenting her on things I like about her, I'll start moving into like touching and kissing, I'll tell her I'm really turned on right now when I know that she is to.

At this point when a woman is really hot and horny you can get her to do almost anything, same as a woman can usually get a guy to do almost anything when the guy is really horny.

by this point you'll often find that a woman WANTS to give you a blowjob, because at the same time she feels beautiful and attractive, you're getting her incredibly turned on with your confidence, but she also feels that sense of comfort and trust with you because you're also being gentle and romantic with her.

I tell her were going to go to dinner, and that I really do love spending time with her, which if I'm taking her to dinner is the honest truth, but I really like the way she feels, and would love to spend some time alone first.

When it comes down to is if she trust you and feels comfortable around you, this allows her to let her guard down, and be incredibly turned on, without any of her own internal resistance going up.

Again, it sounds interesting to me that you look at it this way, and I'd like to hear what experiences you had that when taking this approach that demonstrated to you this won't work.

Ultimatums for sex can very much work, and I know this from experience, they just have to be done correctly to show that you were in charge, you are leading, and you're the alpha male.

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Last week I told this girl that I had to help my sister (she's a teacher) with baking cookies for her cookie sale for her classroom. She came over and helped with baking cookies, watched some silly vampire show on netflix while making out, and ended up having sex.This is a far cry different than what you were originally describing. There are no ultimatums being made. You aren't saying that she is going to have to have sex with you in order to get dinner. You're actually saying that you are building comfort and trust. You are to the point of delaying sex and offering dinner when you don't need to.

Are you sure you know what an ultimatum is?

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At this point, I put her in a position where now I am expected to take her to dinner, but she won't even doing something nice for me. I am very clear and honest with women, I tell her I'd love to go to dinner, but I'd love to spend time alone first.

When I do this if she starts getting bratty and saying no, then she's basically saying, "I don't want to do this, or I want to wait, but take me to dinner first and maybe we can do this later", which means, "just give me what I want" and reveals her true character and intentions to me.

I very quickly discover she wants to go out to dinner, but has no interest in doing something nice to make me happy, or if she does, it has to be on her terms. This is very telling.

I build her own box for her to trap herself in. This also lets me know what I'm dealing with in terms of whether this woman is manipulative or not.

I've done it both ways, and I'm not saying there's a right or wrong way.

I just want to know very quickly if I'm dealing with a manipulative game player or not, how interested she is in my happiness, because I'm being honest and genuine with her, and if I'm with her means I like spending time with her, so I want to know that she's willing to do things for me just as well.

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Can't write much but chris.. Come on.. Are you not seeing the hypocrosies in what you're saying? You ask what someone would get from taking a girl to dinner with nothing in return.. But then say you honestly enjoy their company. I just don't get how you can enjoy spending time with a woman but feel if she doesn't suck your dick you didn't get anything. If you really do love to go to dinner with her, why the add on? You're saying you need an exchange to happen but also saying you're honest about enjoying time with her. Doesn't mesh and its ok if you manipulate emotions but at least be honest here that that's what you're doing.