I agree, coffee dates suck. In fact I don't even think of them as a date, its a meet up so she can basically size you up and basically reject you and go out with another guy that evening who she's already decided to sleep with.

It's almost as low commitment from the girl as maybe catching a bus and sitting next to you for a 20 minute journey. Its a non event in her life but she gets free frothy milky coffee usually with loads of cream and shit for £4. (I'm from the UK)

I've discussed this with some women I trust in the past and they see coffee as basically "not interested but can't get out of it" so its basically a blow off for the guy and they will only maybe switch their view if he really has his shit together and is able to demonstrate that in say a 20 minute slot. Like if you own the coffee shop or something.

I basically think there are way more effective ways to meet a girl and capture her interest than coffee. I wasted a lot of potential lays by meeting people in coffee shops when I first started with game and I think David De Angelo could probably do it, because he's a genius and would probably run A-game cocky funny, but that part of his book didn't work for me personally in the UK.

The highest probability way I think a coffee meet up could work is if you take a strong frame in the beginning, wait for her outside the coffee shop (she thought she was going to) say It looks shit in there, and walk her straight to a pub and order a drink at the bar.

If she reciprocates and orders a drink, that's good, if she sticks to coffee she's really not interested and I suggest you eject before she does so she wonders what the hell went on (and of course will have to message you about it because she's curious now) haha

If she was interested she would want to go for a drink in the evening with the possibility of sex basically. so why not suggest going for "a drink" first, and then if she's giving you the "i'm busy" signals, suggest coffee as a fallback but even then it probably won't get you laid.

I have several reasons why I would say this:

1. They are too short really, once you've got your coffee and get past hello, how was your day, chit chat, that's ten minutes gone and she doesn't have enough time to trust you and basically open up so she won't feel a connection when you try to set up the second date.

2. They are too public and seem formal with bright lighting usually, tables in the way ruining kino, too many other people around meaning she has to behave and will be less outgoing with you.

3. If she would meet you for a coffee, why wouldn't she meet you for a drink in the evening? If you don't ask with girls you won't get anywhere. Asking in the right way though takes practise

What's the right way?

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I've found girls who will chat on the phone are more likely to meet in the evening, so I've scrapped coffee dates altogether and just pick up the phone at a suitable time now.

If she doesn't pick up the phone, she'd probably flake.

While I agree that a coffee date is not ideal....a bar date...is not a good date. If you just meet a girl at a bar for a drink, that in itself is not the recipe to a good date. What I mean is, you shouldnt have coffee "dates", and you shouldnt really have bar "dates." If you plan a date that is meet at the coffee shop, have a cup of coffee and leave seperately, thats not good, but same as if you meet at a bar, have one drink and leave. The basics are still the same, escalate on the date, bounce around. If you have a coffee date, no. If you meet at a coffee place, grab a cup and off to do something else, sure. Dont let the coffee shop part, be a roadblock to progressing the same way. If you see meeting for coffee as ten mins and gone, then it'll suck. If you see it as just the start of an adventure that ends at your place, good.

I get Da's point, but I see things differently. Like working the disadvantages. If its a formal place, it can be more attractive if you make it fun. If its usually chit chat, you're more attractive if you throw some curve balls. Sure there's no alcohol = negative. But....thats why later you can bounce to your place for some drinks = advantage. The location barely matters; what matters is what you do. You can pick the most creative date, and if you act lame, no second date. Or you can pick the lamest date ie coffee, and spice it up. Sure, pick a more creative date if you can, but also keep in mind who you can make a basic date and adventure that leads to your place or wherever you want it to.

I guess I'm misunderstanding what you are saying. You said asking the right way takes practice. If I were to call a girl one night, have a chat and say, "Let's meet up for coffee," it would be pretty simple to get a yes if she's interested. If I would switch out the word "coffee" for "drinks", what would I need to practice so that works?

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I agree with a lot of what neo97 says.

Its just my opinion but my understanding is that the girls I talked to about this have a higher expectation of sex if they've agreed to meet on an evening and if they're in a more excited state then use alcohol as an excuse then rude things can happen more often.

On the phone its the chat preceding the "lets go for drinks" that I believe takes the practice depending on the girl and what she's like, building comfort and spiking attraction with her so she agrees to meet me on an evening and with a higher expectation of sex. [my objective].

Of course the higher expectation of sex on the part of the girl means the likelihood of flaking will increase which I also try to manage and prevent from happening too in the run up to the date.

That's a respectable answer.

I just have a different way of viewing things when it comes from approaching and it leading to sex. I believe that the moment that you get a woman's number and she knows your intention is to go out with her, she is willing to have sex with you as long as you don't fuck it up along the way. Any woman's number that I take knows that I find her attractive and knows the purpose for me getting her number is strictly for the purpose of seeing her again. Once I call her to set a date to meet, assuming that she's given me the number for the purpose that I've asked for it, there is really no need in comfort conversation or spiking attraction. I'm at the point of believing that too much talk without sharing the same space saps attraction and that leads to flakes.

I do agree that night dates have a higher expectation for the man and woman to see if the sexual opportunity is there. When it comes to a PU perspective, I don't agree that it creates the best opportunity for sex because it may be anticipated and that's anti-seductive. Personally, I have had much more success at having sex on the first date or the same day when the date starts out before the sun goes down and the setup is more casual. A happy hour for drinks, meeting up at a coffee shop, or something like a pool hall all work for me. It's easier for me to create the feeling of sweeping a woman off of her feet in a fluid motion.

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DC in short coffee dates were used to deal with a problem for me... aka meet up and talk it away from my place. main reason is to not have a emotional and mental connection of my place being the fight place / argument. Instead she'll indirectly say we went to his house for make up and bonding after we had our argument at STARBUCKS

Thanks JackZero. I respect your views.

Do people really suggest coffee dates if there are literally any other alternatives?

My personal go to has been a glass of wine. Not a drink, but a glass of wine. It really leaves no interpretation as to what my intentions are.

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Coffee dates are predictable, boring and cliche. I don't enjoy them and refuse doing them. I take women on beach boardwalk walks. They work well and I enjoy them much more than sitting across from a chick at a coffee shop.

From time to time I'll meet a chick for a drink during the evening but those typically happen when I feel like the woman is looking for some D in the short-term.

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A person can be predictable, boring, and cliche. Coffee is only a setting/backdrop. A person has the ability to be interesting and attractive regardless of the backdrop. That being said, coffee should never be an option unless the girl is sitting on the fence when it comes to going out with you and the plan should ALWAYS be to move to a second spot the moment that you can see she is enjoying herself with you.

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Perfect.

I keep telling guys, the woman just wants to chill with them, she isn't interested in an 8 course meal. Take the girl on your errands with you, she won't mind. At all. It is a massive interrupt from ALL the tryhards tryna wine and dine her and tell her about their accomplishments which she couldn't give two fucks about.

Men would get laid more if they went on less dates.

Get her number, get her on SPAM or something where she can see you and talk to her for a few minutes then invite her to come to your place for "wine and a movie."

Thats how its done. Great post DA.

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I suppose its all relative to where you're at in terms of your game

if you're a newbie then a coffee shop date might not work for you as much as for say a MPUA (Like David DeAngelo who suggested it in Double your Dating) who can make virtually any situation work for you to your advantage because your skill set is higher.

I believe for a woman to meet you again that she must have a "experience" that sparks emotions so that when you ask her out again, so she thinks "yeah I felt something for/with that guy" so then is motivated to say yes!

if you're a beginner, maybe a venue outside of her normal experiences would help spark those feelings which she would attach to you as a cool guy who knows where to go at least.

if you're an experienced player who can elicit feelings then the venue doesn't matter as much, because you're used to opening on women everywhere and have no fear to overcome, so a coffee shop might work for you.

in either of these cases, the girl would "feel something" and probably want to see you again.

I'd therefore say coffee shops are bad for newbies but may work for more experienced players who can inject feelings and give her a good experience(despite the venue) to brighten up her otherwise boring day.