Hello, I recently was dating a girl for about 2 months who was very Christian and believed in no-sex before marriage. There were some similar threads in the past and they were really helpful. The common advice on how to have sex with this girl seemed to be ....
1. Bail out because it's not worth the trouble
and
2. It's not impossible because this is kind of like an "advanced" form of Last Minute Resistance. It will just take a long time to build a lot of trust and comfort, and then help her remove her guilt about having sex.

Is there anybody who successful pulled it off in a short time-frame?

I believed that I could make it happen with this girl. I had heard that many Christian girls do have sex (without others knowing about it explicitly) despite their faith ... and this girl didn't seem 'impossible'. She definitely was very religious (the type that does Bible study 2 hours in the morning and speaks in tongues) but admitted herself that she was very sexually repressed and that she often felt horny. She would open up to me about her sexual fantasy, and even one night, at the height of her orgasm (we would have oral sex and masturbation together), she basically told me to "put it in", in what seemed to be a 3-second moment of weakness, but after her orgasm was over, she pushed me away and said "thank you for not doing it" and resisted intercourse every night after that. When I asked her about that night, she denied ever having said that like "did I really say that?".

She even slept over my place a few nights and when I teased her that I might pounce on her during sleep, she whispered "put it in when I'm asleep". But then when I tried later that night, she pushed me away.

Through all these mixed, conflicting messages, I felt pretty sad at this whole relationship, me waiting around for another moment of weakness from her, thinking that if I succeed in having sex with this girl once, her entire defense wall will crumble and the celibacy faith won't matter anymore. I still think there's some truth to that, but I really started wondering if this was worth it. We did have an emotional connection and she would say things like "if we have this strong emotional connection, why does sex matter so much? We can just get married if we really wanna have sex" like a prude nun. The thing is, I just turned 27 and she is turning 34 in May so she really is in hurry for marriage but for her to kinda 'dangle' sex in front of me like this, in possibly a subtle ploy to get me to marry her ... it was all confusing and frustrating for me.

Yesterday, I couldn't take it anymore so I told her (nicely) that we should see other people. I told her that sex was a big deal for me and a monogamous relationship without sex wasn't really good enough for me, and also that she shouldn't expect me to marry her soon. She cried a little bit but I gave her the usual "it's not you, it's me" spiel and she took it better than I expected, saying that she will always care about me and remember all our good memories together. I told her we can have an open relationship but she said she doesn't want to imagine me with other girls ... but didn't give me a straight answer.

I don't know. If she had been younger, and we weren't in such a hurry for marriage, I wouldn't have minded gaming her more and been more persistent in getting her to drop her religious bullshit and having sex together. I think that was well within my grasp. But she was clingy and attached even WITHOUT having sex, and she had some emotional scars from getting deserted by her fiance in the past (hence her not getting married at her age) so I wasn't evil enough to just fuck her and leave her. It surely wasn't an easy lay and required a high level of game that I don't currently completely own, IMO. Made me learn a lot about what I lack (especially like how I need to be more non-apologetic about sex, especially with girls like this)

Not sure what to do from here. Regardless of this girl, I just think I need to improve my game. I think the reason I did get attached (and even commit monogamy) to this girl is because I had no other options. I don't do day-game and don't really approach girls that much. I do some online dating but it has not been that successful. That's why I ended up meeting this girl at church because at church, it's a lot more social there and more "natural" ways to meet and date girls (my church youth sometimes feels like a weekly breeding ground) ...

Did you guys ever stay with a girl even when she wasn't offering you sex? Would you have stuck around in this scenario, to 'wait for that moment of weakness' to have sex with this girl ... perhaps spinning other plates in the meantime without this girl knowing? (basically cheating on her) ... Or have you met girls who try to force marriage on you?

Thanks,

Wow this is a good post with some good questions. I will try to tackle some of the notes I made while reading this. First off let me answer some of your final questions and know. I used to be a mPUA for a while but am not anymore. I am married and a Christian. So maybe I can bring you some insight here.
Honestly, I wasn't patient enough to do that and it worked out for me in the long run. I wanted sex not a marriage during that time period.
Definitely don't do that type of thing. If when you start a relationship with a woman if she is fine with you seeing other people then that's one thing. But just plain cheating is another.

Yes and it isn't always a bad thing.

Here is the thing you young, and want sex. There is nothing wrong with that, there are plenty of women who feel the same way, don't let anyone tell you different. That being said this particular lady was interested in a long term relationship. Her comment of "if we have this strong emotional connection, why does sex matter so much? We can just get married if we really wanna have sex" speaks to that. She loved you and wanted a relationship with you. That is fine that you had different relationship goals but you might have saved yourself some time up front in discussing those sooner in the relationship.

On dates with girls you need to identify what they are wanting. Do they just want to date and have sex with people right now? Are they looking for their next soul mate? Just tonight? What? Everyone has different ideas and are at different points in their lives.

If she wants a relationship and all you really care about is sex then find someone else. It really isn't fair to the girl to mislead her into the hopes of an LTR just so you can get off. There are other girls that be happy to oblige you without all the extra strings attached. Just keep in mind some girls will, some won't, so what, NEXT!

Going back to your girl you mentioned she was dangling sex in front of you. You got frustrated because when you would escalate things sexually you would have her right there, and then her conscience would kick in at the last minute.

Women are sexual creatures. Men and women were made to have sex and that is a natural desire of any person. You got her to the point where her emotions were driving her and her sensations were telling you to get on with it. But when the conscience brain kicked in, she thought to herself, I've waited this long to give this gift of being someone's first - shame to waste that now. You were after it, she wasn't. She obviously wanted to show that she was sexually attracted to you but at the same time didn't want to break her promise.

She has a religious obligation she has kept for many years at this point. Can it be "gamed" to the point she would probably agree to sex, I would say more than likely. It just depends on how far you are willing to go into deceiving her. If you got engaged to her for example you might have been able to push her there because she has the comfort of knowing you are going to be married, what does it matter? That being said it is awful low to go for some sex though.

Can Christian girls or women who have made this vow be broken into giving it up? Yes, absolutely, yes. It depends on the person though. Some just want to know that 'if' something were to happen and they got pregnant that you would be there for her. Some need more of a commitment like your past lady. Others just need to feel like they know you a little bit before going there. Finally, for some it is all show, the resistance is paper thin, and they will tell you one thing in public and do another thing in private.

The open relationship question was a serious grasping at straws effort and was pretty bad man. I was shaking my head some after that one.

Keep in mind your game may be just fine. You could have done everything perfectly but if she has made that strong of a commitment you cannot overcome it unless you are willing to make an equally strong commitment.

You said yourself you met the girl at church and you had no other options. I would focus on improving your selection of women by talking to them early on in the dating process about the type of relationship they are after more and qualify that sooner more than I would about changing your game.

Again if sex is all you want right now that's cool. Just be open with women and you'll find out they have a lot more patience with that type of thing than you realize. However, a lot of women in your age range, generally speaking, are going to be looking for someone to marry. Younger women will still be in the boyfriend stage is fine because they don't want anything serious at this point.

Best of luck.

_________________
Been around the world twice, Talked to everyone once...

I've taken two virginities.

16, it took 3 months. And this girl was 19. And had a boyfriend for 4 years who tried every weekend. She was super religious, wore a promise ring and promised her dad that she would wait.

22. It took a week. Two dates and a few phone conversations. That girl was 26. She wasn't waiting until marriage though, she didn't find someone who she felt like she should give it to.

The end verdict.. They were both devastated.

I've matured since then and I wouldn't even bang a girl over the age of 22 that was still a virgin, unless she wasn't waiting until marriage and I was serious about her. I've had the opportunity to take several other virginities since then and I turned them down. When a girl waits until 27 to have sex I think its best to just let her keep it for the marriage she hoped for. Thats a tough fight. Why wait all that time to just let it go for some asshole that will probably leave them shortly after like I did. If you have any options, you'll know that its better to just give her over to her desires at that point.

If you were going to take her virginity you fucked up by being too accommodating after you were breaking apart from her. There is still a chance she may contact you and change her mind though. And i'd recommend that you go no contact until that happens. If you had just told her " You're being selfish, You're taking what you want from me and keeping what you want for some special moment. Fuck this. I'm out" she would of had a change of her in a few days.

The other method that worked with me and the first girl was to start taking everything away. I wanted sex, she liked to kiss. So I said, " no more kissing. Kissing makes me horny and I'll want sex. If we can't have sex, we can't kiss". And so for the next 3 days I didn't kiss her once. I did the same thing with hugging after that, and two days later she texts me to tell me that she thinks she's ready. I began to take away what she wants to help her understand how I felt when I wasn't getting what I wanted.

Go meet some more women and stop being a chump though man. Whats this girl look like anyway? To make it to 27 without some player getting her would suggest to me that she isn't all that attractive.

_________________
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Thanks so much, JSmooth. I really needed some two cents from a 3rd person PUA like you.

You hit the nail on the head about so many things and made me think about how I immediately jumped into "monogamy" status with this girl without really considering the consequences. Where would it have gone? Would I game game game her until she would give up? And then what? I don't know. I don't think I'm going to be ready for marriage until like late 30s, so I probably would have left her after sex with her.

I had this imaginary scenario in my head where she eventually gave up, and we would have this amazing sex life and emotional connection and somewhere down the road, we would marry ... perhaps that's still not impossible but we have such differing religious beliefs. She believes in exorcisms, gay people having evil spirits inside them, visions and all kinds of different things. I am a theist but am so much more liberal and open than her.

I know it sounds really selfish to "game" her into disobeying her religious vows. But I think I've seen it time and time again in my male peers in the church. They attract these girls through "bible study meetings" and soon, I hear rumours of them having sex. I cannot verify that this always happens ... it probably varies according to the couple but it's a pretty common happening. I also know of abstinent couples who went without sex for 2-3 years before finally getting married, and that's pretty crazy if you ask me.

Like you said, i should go out and meet younger girls (who are not serious marriage stage) and set clearer expectations in the future early on. My friends were telling me "well, that's what you get for deciding to date a 33 year old girl you met at church"! haha

You said you were Christian too, so you probably identify with her "no sex before marriage" belief a lot. I have complete respect for people who are religious and have faith in something greater ... but I just think that rule is very flawed. It makes people feel guilty for being human and having these human sexual desires, which you said too, is just a natural part of who we are as men and women.

Thank you so much anyways.

That 'other method' is brilliant. Haha. I will def keep that in mind, Eddie.
One question, why do you think being 'accommodating' about the breakup was a bad move? Do you think making her realize that she was being selfish was necessary in that situation, and would move her in a way that she WOULD want to have sex? Not so sure about that one, but would love to hear more about why you think that way

Sorry, I guess I didn't explain this clearly in my post but she's had sex in the past. She's actually 33. She became a "born again christian" at age 30 so she's been celibate for about 3 years. I have no idea how their minds work but apparently, sex is SIN NOW but since they accepted Jesus, all their past sex is forgiven but if they have sex NOW, then it's a big deal. Don't ask me, man, it's pretty cray cray.

She's pretty cute. Obviously aging and her looks are slowly waning but I'd say she's like a 7.5. She might have been an 8, 9 in her 20s.

Like you said, I think it really comes down to me not meeting enough women. It's just I'm pretty crazy busy with work and also have a night job and on the weekends, I do church community service. If I did have at least 1-2 regular sex partners, I wouldn't be so frustrated over this one girl, I totally agree.

Gosh darn. Massive Self-improvement and more action needed. If anybody's sarging in NYC, let me know.

I live in New York City man.

But I'm if she's a born again virgin i could only laugh at you for falling for that shit. The point is, she's being selfish. Why are you putting up with it? She takes what she wants from you, and pushes you to give her what she wants, and denies you what you want.

If you don't see that, you have a bit of a way to come in your journey.

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In my humble opinion
1. you made the right choice, as you guys didn't line up
2.You should never try and get someone to drop their beliefs in the pursuit of adding a notch to your belt, in my opinion it just makes you a manipulative asshole, especially if your plan was just to pump and dump

No man, OP's last post said she already fucked. And now she puts ultimatums on OP, marriage or no sex. Eddie is completely right with this:
This rule should not only apply in romantic relationships. And some people, like OP have difficult time saying NO, well until now at least when it's over.

If you operated in a way like this before "You'll get what you want, I'll get what I want", and stated your demands beforehand and not trying some snicky tactics to get her laid, it would be much easier. Just move on, you got plenty on women waiting for you anyways...

_________________
Uncertainty is the root of all progress and all growth.

No man, OP's last post said she already fucked. And now she puts ultimatums on OP, marriage or no sex. Eddie is completely right with this:



oh my bad just saw that update, well nix the second part. But like I said in 1 what you guys wanted out of the relationship didn't line up, and had you had a discussion about that earlier you probably would have had to waste so much time here.