Jeez, are you related to Onoma?

_________________
USER HAS BEEN BANNED FOR REPEATEDLY IGNORING MOD WARNINGS AND MULTIPLE RULE VIOLATIONS

Not true at all. You can express attraction, be charming, and at the same time be aloof. The problem is that you're saying that there is a single best way to express and build attraction.

I can't get into statistics when talking pickup because at that point it's all bullshit, just as the whole direct and indirect debate.

_________________
mpuaforum.proboards.com

I gotta say not true as well. This is all just direct game marketing. When a 5 approaches a ten, she doesnt think wow I admire his balls.

1. Girls dont understand the difficulty with approaching. They dont understand AA. Most girls are confused when they hear a guy say he had to muster up courage to approach in the first place. Girl's have poor insight into how difficult approaching and meeting women are for a man, hence they give poor advice like "be yourself." So when a 5 approaches a 10, most girls wont even see it as courageous or confident. They see approaching (on the part of a man) as something that should be natural and easy.

2. Many guys when they do cold approach, do so directly. Guys hit on girls at the bar directly. There are many guys a girl will encounter, who will approach her with direct interest. Even losers do. Guys take shots they know they wont make. When a guy approaches a chick out his league, chicks just think he's stupid. It doesnt look confident when the 5 approaches the 10, it looks desperate. Most think "this ugly guy must be crazy to even approach me like this....He's not on my level" more so than "wow this guy must be confident to come up to me." Its a bar. When you're attractive, girls see a direct approach as a compliment. When you're ugly, they see it as an insult.

This kinda stuff always cracks me up, like girls can distinguish between your direct approach versus the 20 others she got that night. Yeah, she's half drunk, yeah the place is dark and the music is bumping but she's gonna distinguish you're hey blah blah from the drunk guy 10 mins ago.

The advantage of direct is it saves time. That's all. If the chick likes you, its attractive that you approached directly. If she doesnt, its just noise.

Does it look confident when you apply for a job you're not qualified for?

Does it look confident when you apply for a loan and your credit is shit?

Does it look confident when you try on clothes you cant afford?

No.

So why on earth would women think that a guy opening her who is below her level is somehow confident for doing so? Guys all around the world hit on girls they have no chance of getting

This is when the direct guys all say that you have to be properly calibrated. The fail-safe of no proof.

_________________
mpuaforum.proboards.com

Dead on.

What's the difference between a guy who's creepy and a guy who isn't? She's not physically attracted to the creepy guy.

Very interesting read so far.

I somewhat agree to Melodical's earlier statement (if anyone gives a shit about my opinion lol) that generally it is OBSERVED that more attractive girls are with less handsome guys.

Reason is guys with good looks tend to be more entitled and don't feel the need to improve their Game, in many cases don't even know what Game is or how much it matters to girls (for the same reason that they never felt the need to... in their mind). Less attractive guys know their looks ain't enough so they work on other departments thus (usually) improving their game more than handsome guys.

Now that doesn't mean it sucks to be handsome. In reality an ugly giy with maximum game won't be able to reach the level of handsome guy with just a little game. But that's not what is seen mostly. I've seen many cool guys are shy and awkward as fuck. Atleast that's what I've observed so far.

Peace

Ps: I think the OP trolled us all. Where are you OP?

_________________
Don't get confused by my username. I am not Bald.

Tunnel vision - Come to a western country where it's mostly white people

Open your eye's with a neutral lens and the next 10 attractive girls that you will most likely see that have guy's holding their hand will be guys that look good and seem confident.

It's not like Russia where it's gold digger central. I am talking about USA/UK/Australia...most of Western Europe

Where I'm from, I walked passed a bunch of pick up dudes on the hunt for girls and despite that I'd met them many times, the fact was because I was with a girl, they didn't even see me because they are focused on what they want to see (girl walking alone)

Yet I see them everyday banging their head's against a brick wall, dressed the same way as they did 2 years ago- no improvements apart from 10k flakey numbers in their phone.

_________________
USER HAS BEEN BANNED FOR REPEATEDLY IGNORING MOD WARNINGS AND MULTIPLE RULE VIOLATIONS

I will say this though, when I moved to the upper midwest a couple years ago, I have seen more attractive women with less attractive guys generally. Only exception I've seen has been the extreme fitness chicks who are typically with the extreme fitness guys. But the dynamics in the midwest are different, people typically date exclusively from social circle, and settle down early. Whenever I'm introduced to a girls friends and bfs, I'm surprised that its mostly hotter girls with average guys. Now the guys aren't "alpha", they're just typically regular guys, average looks, average body type, they have a simple group of friends, regular job. But they'd be with girls at least 3 points more attractive than they are. In other cities, couples are typically more looks matched but midwest is weird.

Even then, for cold approach or online, I cant remember who said it here but they are 100% correct. Girls and guys want the most attractive partner they can get. Now they may compromise looks for the guy they meet through a limited social circle, but at the bar or online, they choose the guys closer to their level. More options=higher standards. I've seen multiple girls whose last bf was a 6, when they go online they only swipe the 8+ guys. Their last bf they met at work had a flabby stomach; when they go online they only pick the athletic types.

To steal a Dragula line, "Just be normal." Alot of guys dont get that you dont need epic game to get a chick. A good looking guy just needs to be normal/not creepy. And by normal I mean, just going out a bit, decent social circle, decent conversation skills. Simple way to get girls : just have a way to meet them (social circle,work, going out) and just be normal. Cold approach is a difficult game, and you're competing with many other guys. When you meet a girl through social circle or work, you can do movie dates, you can do flowers, you can wait a month to sleep with her and still get her.

There is no single best way as every girl is different. What I'm saying is that certain inherent traits like attractiveness or confidence have differing levels of attraction generation dependent on the attractivness demographic you approach.

By approaching direct on a 10 you do express attraction but also imply aloofness by doing so. The approach in itself to a 10 is a quantifier of aloofness. You're unaffected by her beauty to the baseline of being outcome independent. An afc who hovers round her trying to make eye contact because he's shit scared to approach isn't aloof.
It's not a magic bullet but it does improve the guy's chances. Maybe by approaching he up's his attraction utility from a 5 to a 7 but it's still not enough to bat at her level. Maybe an 8 or 9 will up his utility from 5 to 7 but I'm saying that a 10 will up it more than her peers, maybe she ups his utility to an 8 as confidence is more important to her but still...he doesn't make the grade. Now suppose a guy with 7 looks and good game approaches her direct. Holds the frame, aces the shit tests then he's ascribed a probationary 10 unless he drops the ball.

The 10 is his attraction utility. The sum total of attractivness triggering traits he possesses.

If you've read Nassim Taleb's book "The Black Swan" then you'll now what I mean when I say 10's are "Fat Tails" the effect of confidence doesn't follow the stochastic curve by continuing it's law of diminishing returns regression. It stabilises and even increases as the intrinsic value it's tracking enters a scarcity environment. In other words; very few guys indeed show confidence with a 10 it's scarce for her but it's also valuable to her.

This is why I'm really having a hard time with you. On another post you outright say if you go direct you will be 2 to 3 times more successful. If you're not direct you are indirect by default. That is saying that being direct is the best way to go.

Why not try using a guy who is not an AFC that uses indirect techniques as an example? An AFC that is nervous, not making eye contact, and making bold statements isn't going to get the girl either.
A response to a guy that says he's never been direct but still gets laid.

_________________
mpuaforum.proboards.com

In the case of the individual poster I was replying to then yes I believe it applies to him. Although he does ramble on and get tetchy now and then most of his posts show a good knowlege of a game and a lot of infield experience so in his case then yes it's true and also true for other guys with good game.

Direct is better than indirect with 10's.


Indirect has it's place but I feel its effectivness diminishes with 10's as that's what everyone else is doing because most guys don't have the confidence to be direct with them. They develop a mental filter to it.
Maybe he wants to get laid more and with more beautiful women?

Look at it this way, it's not going to do you any harm.

What is with this whole "Treat 10s differently" thing? I'm all for rating a woman out of 10, providing there's no "hb" involved. But wtf? Treat all women the same, lol. Going direct or indirect should depend on things like how much time you have, your confidence, your priorities and your sensory acuity.

Didn't read the whole thread, obviously, so I could look a dick if this has all been said.

_________________
I grew out of the dumb shit I used to say on here. Most of my posts don't represent who I am today at all.

Seems like you are twisting your statements again. Regardless, the 10 is a myth because one person's 10 is another person's 7. So saying that direct is better with 10's is not a realistic statement. Again, you're speaking at an "everyone" level. What about the guys that are good with women?You don't know if he's getting laid every day of the week or if he's getting top quality women. It's just a garbage statement to try to make direct into some kind of magical technique. Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying that direct is not as good as indirect. I'm saying from experience that it does not matter if you know how to carry yourself in either situation. The guys that claim that direct is better always feel the need to claim how much balls they have to approach hotter women and how the women love it because no one talks to them like that.

Bottom line. If you're going to be direct, be normal. If you're going to be indirect, be normal. Either way, express attraction and escalate because neither one works if those things aren't involved.

_________________
mpuaforum.proboards.com

You're making a better case for indirect than for direct. If aloofness and outcome dependence is important, then the best would have to be indirect, by your rules. Traditional indirect is opening the group socially, teasing and disqualifying the chick you want proactively, acting like you have to leave. THIS is aloofness. THIS is outcome dependence. More so than direct and then being aloof. Whats more aloof or unaffected by her beauty? Opening her directly, and plowing when she's rude ie shit testing you, or not even talking to her and disqualifying her when she says or does something?
Again, you are acting like indirect means the guy comes up asks about her dress and forces a conversation. Sure, guys do that, but that's not proper indirect. How many guys approach groups of girls, joke with them and disqualify the hot girl? Less so than the guys who go up saying hi or being direct. If we're saying girls develop a mental filter to some stuff, shouldnt you be more worried about them tuning out hi, than who lies more?

I'm not even an indirect guy, I do direct 99% of the time, except for social circle. But I can't act like telling a girl hi or approaching directly makes a girl impressed by my confidence and gains me points. It saves time and I'm lazy.
A guy who approaches her from the other side of the bar, compliments her or starts a conversation directly, and passes her shit tests as you say...is not aloof. Passing shit tests is not aloof. You're still standing there talking to her even when she is dismissive= want an outcome. You came to talk to her = want an outcome. If outcome dependence is important, then acting like you're leaving puts you in a better place than approaching directly. Approaching her friends makes you look more outcome independent than approaching her.

Look, I can't say that if you approach indirectly, its benefit is that you're displaying interest. Its just not true. But by that note, you cant say that direct approach shows aloofness and outcome independence. Both approaches convey something. But you can't just steal the benefits of one approach and apply it to direct as if it works that way. A disadvantage of direct is that it shows less aloofness and that there is something you want more so than indirect. If you want to appear aloof and like you dont give a fuck, approach indirectly with an opinion opener and all that shit. If you want to filter girls quickly, go direct. Tens get guys approaching them directly all the time. They get dinner invites. They get trip invites. They get mode one approaches. They get guys grabbing their arms at the bar. I dont know why we have to pretend that all they get is indirect approaches. Like few guys go for something out of their league. Like most guys are just stuttering shaking dudes who cant hold eye contact and say hi. But somehow when you do it, it stands out and even raises you a couple points. Even though she had 20 guys come up to her that night.

I'll even make a bold statement: Confidence, aint that important. Once you're not some nervous fool, women dont care. Fun will get you more points than having the "balls" to approach her. When you get a woman from a direct approach, its more because of the vibe, conversation and/or escalation than how you approached. To harp on N2s point, the difference between her viewing your actions as confident and creepy is how much she's physically attracted to you. The shy good looking guy who calls her 10 times a day and sends flowers, she'll blush to her friends how "charming" he is. The average looking dude who is really confident who texts her once some PUA line, she'll laugh at with her friends at how weird he is.


^And def this

If all women had the same psychological make up then I would agree. 10's have way more different interactions with men than 5's and have to adapt to them accordingly as their developmental psychology is different.
That's true in a broader criteria but I'm only refering to a girls looks in this scenario, and attractivness perception and rating is hardwired into the male brain and also cross cultural in its appreciation and agreement.
Of course.
Indeed they do, but dinner invites? Trip invites?.... You ever seen that Chris Rock sketch where he jokes that everything you say to an attractive woman means the same thing: "want some dick?"

Want to come to dinner with me? (want some dick?)

Want to come on a trip with me? (want some dick?)

Women aren't stupid as regards mens intentions and 10's have heard and seen it all, like you say they have guys approaching them all the time both directly and indirectly. A direct approach (as in walking over) and an invitation to dinner is still an indirect invitation to some dick.

A direct approach means making your intentions clear that you find her beautiful but not to the level you will be upset if she doesn't like you as you're outcome independent.