I sincerely hope I'm posting this in the correct section.
Had a hard time trying to figure out where this particular issue fit in... I couldn't even Google it.

I went on a 3Rd date this past Wednesday and everyone is always saying "oh 3Rd date is the sex date"
It also marks the 5-6th week since we started dating.
I consider this significant because some coaches say it's around the 6-7th week that a woman will bring up "the relationship talk"... If you play it right.

Here is the thing, we've ended EVERY date in her bedroom so far, watching movies and chilling...
1St date we just cuddled and it ended with us kissing
...
2nd date we started French kissing and making out...

But the 3Rd date has me confused on "technicalities"...
We started making out again and I reached for her butt, slipped my hands in under her pants and she let me...
When I tried to touche her boob, she stopped me by tightly pressing her arm against her chest to block my hand as it slowly moved up...
( even though she already let me unhook her bra?!)

Then eventually she sat up straight, hooked her bra back on and then spooned with me instead...
And almost instantly her 1St question was: " do you like me? "
( none of my guides gave me tips on how to answer this right) So I just said yes... But I asked her if she liked me too ( she said yes, but I'm not sure if this hurt my game)
And I asked her why ( and she just said she was curious)

So I decided to just spoon would be boring and tried seducing her by kissing her neck and shoulders...
It worked and she started to press her back up against me and grind...
This time she also straight out eventually took my hand and placed it on her boob ( with her bra still on) ...
I just slipped my hand in underneath after a while and started playing with them like that.
I also tried to work my hand down infront, but as I was about to slip just past my knuckles into her pants, she grabbed my hand and placed on top of her pants but right ontop of the right spot, so I "rubbed" her off...
Heck she stopped making out earlier cuz she thought she heard somebody coming, but this time I'm pretty sure someone basically walked in on us and she was enjoying it so much that she didn't want me to stop anyway!

...
Two things bugged me afterwards...
1. She seemed to mutter " I'm sorry " when she was finished? ( I don't know why the hell she would, but I might have miss heard and been mistaken)
2. I actually asked her if she orgasmed ( she said yes. And it is actually important to me) I just don't want to seem needy... And if any of you have a better way of asking this or finding out that seems less "beta" then I'd appreciate the pointers...


I rewarded her investment that night with a small gift that reminded me of her... It was like "$5" so I didn't think it's a big deal, but I'm starting to wonder how that might have affected things...

My question to you all is, how do I know where I'm currently standing with her?
I want to transition this into a relationship, but I also assumed this might already be one now?

Should I text her more regularly and try to see her every week instead of just every 2nd week?

One of my texting game books states that post sex you shouldn't try play it cool and should try meet here the next day for drinks if possible and it's even okay to come across as a little needy, as long as you get to meet up with her and show her it's about more than just sex...
The theory is also if she won't meet up with you then, then she won't meet up with you again...

Truth is she still only replies to some of my texts but I got the impression before we started dating that she sometimes gets upset to the point where she even blocked me when I didnt text her... Yet she doesn't always reply... And I don't always have something I feel is worth texting to capture her attention and emotions.

I appreciate any pointers on how to transition it from here, how to handle the time we're apart and how to define what we have

Thanks guys!

I'm no expert but in each date the intimacy seems to be progressing forwards so I'd say you're doing good.

I don't normally give gifts so early on.

Also I call the day after sex just to say hey so that she knows I care about her and not only just after sex.

To me, her asking you if you like her just sounds like she just wants reassurance that you like her before getting too attached and intimate with you so you telling her you like her is what she needs to hear IMO. I don't think it's any kind of test. I normally don't ask girls if they like me because 1) I don't trust words as much as her actions and 2) sounds a bit insecure IMO.

Regarding how often to meet/text/call etc. I think every girl has different styles, if she seems like the independent type I don't initiate conversations more than once or twice a week in the early stages. If she contacts me more frequently, I'll do the same.

There could be a number of reasons she doesn't reply to all your messages. She seems to like you but maybe she's busy or talking to other people or might like some others guys as well or playing hard to get. So best not to over analyze this and just keep cool and do your thing.

I think asking for a meet up one time per week is ok. If she shoots me down I just say cool, not be phased by it and try again a week later or accept her suggestion if she proposes something else.

I'm not very advanced at this so take my advice with a grain of salt.

The reason why most guys are horrible with women is that they listen to what "everyone is saying". With that in mind, however fast sex is happening has nothing to do with the number of dates you've been on, but with how you actually invested that time.
3 awkward dates while sitting across from each other talking about politics will not end in sex, I guarantee you that.

Also, 7 weeks can be 3 dates, 7 dates or 14 dates. You think the same pattern applies in all scenarios? And again, it's not only about the amount of time spent together, but also about the way you've spent that time together.
Plus, not every woman is looking for a relationship.
Look. A woman is either certain sex won't happen - in which case you will not end up in her bed.
Or she's certain sex might happen - in which case you do end up in her bed and will have to make the most of it.
And that brings me to my point. Why are you walking when she's rooting for you to sprint? It took you 3 dates in her bed for you to make an actual move. Ofcourse she asked you if you liked her. Because she was confused as to what the fuck took you so long?

In this particular scenario, answering honestly was probably the right thing to do. For the simple reason that any other answer would have not been productive at all, considering what I've already mentioned above.
Yeah, well, that means you were finally doing it right. About time too.

1. ???
2. Some women aren't as "vocal" or otherwise expressive when they cum. Still, it's pretty obvious even so. But if you really can't tell just ask. You can't seem needy unless you are needy. The way you formulate the phrase has little to do with it. The man behind the words has everything to do with it.

So let me get this straight. You got her off, made her cum, and rewarded her for her investment? It must be slipping me right now, but what exactly is her investment?
Does the cook reward his clients for "the investment of allowing him to cook for them"?
Do you see the problem in that?

Why would you want to transition into a relationship so soon? From what I can't tell you didn't even have sex with her yet. Moreso, you barely know her. And no, it most definitely is not a relationship yet.

You either had sex and didn't mention it, or gave her an overclothes orgasm and think you had sex. In which case, you did not.
That being said, yes, you should see her at least once a week.
Again, neediness has to do with the person performing the actions, not with the actions themselves. Depending on who the guy is, she might cry happy tears because she called her the day after, or she may cry sad tears because why the fuck did she ever agree to sleep with him.

Ok, I answered all your questions even though I didn't really want to. I'm assuming you're new here, so for the sake of providing some perspective, I did. But. You are seriously mentally masturbating.
What do you plan on doing in the future? Planning out every single move you'll ever make? Meticulously trying to distinguish between needy and non-needy, not realizing that the very effort necessary to do so automatically makes you needy by definition?

Look dude, it's important to have these concepts in the back of your head. But you're thinking surface level stuff. The point of PUA is to help you become a non-needy, genuinely attractive male. Not to teach ways in which you can pretend to be so. And I know most so called "Pickup" material sells you magic routines that have a 100% guaranteed chance of success, because everyone wants the easy way out and nobody wants to be told they'll have to work, hard, to achieve their goals. But those are bandaid solutions that will only ever build houses of cards. And you know who easily those tend to crumble.

At any rate, if you need help with texting I have a bullshit free guide for that in my sig. Have a look. If you have other questions or feel like you want to provide more details, feel free to do so and I'll try answering.
However, my honest advice to you is to re-evaluate your situation. You don't want to become a social robot, always wandering what the next optimal move is. You want to develop a natural feel so that the right thing to do becomes instinct, and a part of who you've become.

_________________
I know my place. It's me on top of the world.

My in depth texting & dating guide.
There's no such thing as shit-tests.
How to keep a girl.

Thank you for your help R.C & coldfire3k3

I can see now that jumping into a relationship at the time would have been too soon.
I can see now I was starting to fall into that trap.
I do have a question concerning your guide on the " She never initiates " section.
( honestly, thank you that was an eye opener ... I have had only a hand full of girls that have initiated contact. This would seem to do it, but then it would usually be after I'd sent her a message and instead of replying to that she'd just send a message like " hello hope you have a good day " ... so she's never just done it out of the blue on her own )

The problem is we've now moved to her not replying.
The reason it's a problem is I'm not sure it's me or what to do about it ...

She's gone on a trip to Israel for holiday now and it's been about 2 and a half weeks.

Before she left we were supposed to go on a date, but I canceled and moved it to the next day ( she seemed fine with it and many coaches say it's sometimes a good thing to cancel because it creates a sense of "chase" in her. I'd like to hear your opinion on it too though )
The next day she canceled on me, but it was a lot closer to the date and at the time it caught me off guard and I came across as needy and asked her " why wats up? " ... and then when she told me she just needs to spend time with family before she goes, I told her " I'd still like to see you before you go " ...
BUT when I got no reply, I just texted her an hour later and told her " hey let me know when you're available again "
...

Now she's still there and I've texted her again today and on two other days, 1st just trying to joke around and asking "if she's skinny dipped in the dead sea yet?" ... ( no reply)

Then on another occasion to just let her know I'm thinking about her and I hope she's having a great time... ( also no reply )

And then again today where I joked about her being kidnapped and that I hope they're feeding her and I'll be right over to rescue her and I'll bring chocolate just in case ... ( also no reply ... yet ... but she has viewed it )

I mean, I know some days before when she'd get really busy she's also just never reply ( especially on sundays, she's never text me on sundays )

So what do I do? I assume she'll be back next week or even the week after that ...
But should I really be worried about her not replying?
I mean she is on holiday? Granted, when I didn't text her when I was on holiday she got so mad off she blocked me on watsapp! SO I don't feel it's fair, but at the very least it is understandable, just because I would have probably done the same.

What's your opinion on the matter though ?
You mentioned having a " two strike rule " ?
Would that still apply? Personally I'd love to try again next week when she might be back ... I'm just not sure when she might be back because I can't get any damn reply out of her ...
This is especially tricky because she mentioned wanting to meet my parents and now they told me to invite her to dinner at the end of the month ... so I find that very frustrating ...

Also, I'll confess that I got tempted in Instagram and I went ahead and searched for her.
I didn't add her yet, instead I just looked at her pics and tried to asses if she's still on holiday or if she's just ignoring me. SO looking at her pics and her friends I could then asses that she's still there ( I know, big no go and creepy as fuck ... not proud )
That's also when I noticed an old lover or ex started following her and her sister on there too!
Neither her nor her sister started following him back, which is a good sign imo. But I'm not going to lie, it's messed with my mind set ...



Thanks again for your time

Maybe you should post snippets of actual conversations. "Hello hope you have a good day" sounds boring as fuck to me. Be it a reply or initiation on her part, you probably have some fault there too.
Simple. Stop talking to her.
Mystery is probably one of the most renowned "guru's" and "coaches" in this industry. You'd think the man was a god with women. Guess what. He was at the brink of suicide. Multiple times.
In short, he was a very fucked up individual, like most so called "guru's" are, and the quality of the women they attract is mediocre at best.
So yeah, playing stupid mindgames will only work on stupid, mindless women. Pull that shit off with a quality chick and I guarantee you won't be getting day 2's. You know why? because it's pathetic.

Why the hell would you be sitting at home, canceling an AGREED UPON date? This is the very definition of shooting yourself in your own leg.
Not only did you not meet, but the next day she canceled on you. And as expected with using routines or frankly, stupid tactics, when shit doesn't go your way, you panic. That's what happens when you pretend being something you're not. You can only fake it for so long.

So in your moments of panic, what did you do? You went from the wannabe aloof "let just meet tomorrow guy", to the clingy and needy "why? what's up? I really want to see you before you leave. Let me know when you're available pls" guy.

Do you see how contradicting those personas are?

And also, no one who actually knows what they're talking about will ever tell you dumb shit like "ok now just cancel the date to get her to chase". You get women to chase you by being a high quality male. Not by pretending to be so.
You're thinking about her? About a chick that's on vacation, who you did not have sex with, and has not been replying to your texts for god knows how long?

As I've said time and time again, the words little meaning, the man behind them is all that counts. And right now, whatever you text, in her eyes reads as this:
"You're my only option"
"Please don't leave me"
"I have no one else"

This is just you rationalizing. Trust me, for the right guy she'd sleep with her phone under her pillow and get wet whenever it vibrated, hoping the text was from him. There's no such thing as "too busy". Just "too busy for you". Replying takes like 1 minute. She just doesn't consider you're worth it.

No, you should not be worried that one woman, who owes you nothing, is not replying. You should be worried why she's not replying. And the reason is you.
Rationalizing again.
Yes the two strike rule always applies, but you're well over two strikes.
Also why the hell do your parents know about this chick? She's not your girlfriend for Christ sake! She's not even your fuck buddy. She's no one worth so much damn investment and attention from your end.

Dude, it's crystal clear to me that this woman is your only option. And if I can tell just by some forum posts, she as a woman, being 10 times more perceptive, saw straight into that festering pool of insecurities you have going on.

This chick has very little, if any, interest left in you. And your lack of confidence, options, and overall attractive lifestyle is the reason behind that. Invest in self-development. By the sound of it you're a young dude, so there's plenty of time to improve. But as I've mentioned in my first post, you need to re-evaluate yourself.
Right now your neediness is all over the place.

PS: DO NOT text this girl again unless she initiates with you.

_________________
I know my place. It's me on top of the world.

My in depth texting & dating guide.
There's no such thing as shit-tests.
How to keep a girl.

Alright, I'll post a few post a few from our earlier chats too

Like this one...
https://app.box.com/s/plid2lzx9r6whw03e9zvl1anc52mx9u3
That's where she's asked me out basically... But again she didn't reply to my message before that at all...
And the one before that
https://app.box.com/s/pezyhgpdz8mbkgoigs0y82mwvqd6a041
I'd post more, but her messages tend to look like this
https://app.box.com/s/vuoezvp754kckoy1hq191jsuu1gxevwg
And this

https://app.box.com/s/v3agtv3ditnbcc2r8d4r6xv5po8k9zje

So we'd usually have that vibe where we have fun and she'd usually spam funny pics at me, like 5-8 in a row

Now, I do apologize for this, since I realize this isn't ideal, but here are the last few messages we sent before she went cold
Here is where I canceled

https://app.box.com/s/jyi2lga4hsac0kxea17g1hkn4x360qmp

We still went on to chat till late and she sent pics she took and she seemed fine with it
To answer your question and be 100% honest... Car trouble. For our last date I had to borrow someone else's transport... I hoped that canceling would have had a positive effect... But if I'm honest, I'd give my left nut to go back in time and change that now... I'd freaking walk if I had to! I honestly regret it...

Here's the rest of our conversation to date... ( in chronological order)

https://app.box.com/s/umyncyu5kglq1cfi7cn56zk9yv5jzcyh

https://app.box.com/s/vanasbrfc3dt050bwsbjh482ze2owysh

https://app.box.com/s/vtuxtn12ozfhxgtbtzn6tw3v94att0rs

https://app.box.com/s/hvjc4o0lropc55hxgu26zup76xxsx5hp

https://app.box.com/s/xobr8j99hujh3rgszcp0vf9phj0z5cbz

https://app.box.com/s/tn0yrwxhmpxcl2kpja6eoi9s25bh6asn

I should thank you, digging up my old phone and going through those messages again really helped remind me how things used to be... But that's what makes it so weird.
She was never like this... This only started since she went overseas on this trip...

I mean granted, to give you some background info, I had hey number since the start of the year basically.
I met her at church and tried to ask her out multiple times but back then, she'd always flake at the last second...
Eventually she told me she just has things to deal with and she's sorry and something along the lines of "I hope you'll wait and be patient with me "

Then fast forward to this, and she was eventually the one that asked me out! ( like you saw from the one screen cap)
I wasn't even looking to date anybody at the time, in fact some days I'd actually message her stuff like this

https://app.box.com/s/8bk10u4felgsmo1gk9ed6156nuefgd85

I was frankly just trying to shock her there and maybe even get her upset or even a little frustrated. I frankly stopped caring about her there and was just looking to get a good laugh in... ( I wasn't even looking for a reply there and as you can see, I didn't get one either)

How ironic she's the one that's frustrating me nope


That's the thing, she asked to meet them, she wanted to meet them. So I had to have a talk with them to try and set up lunch or whatever...
I don't know why she wanted to even meet them, might just be because I've met her parents ( she still stays with them)

But again, I hear you loud and clear...
I won't text her again...

I'd still appreciate your insight on these matters.
Thanks again for your time!

A thread this long over a chick you hardly got to 3rd base with? Yet if you did actually fuck her you post would have been more like.- Hey guys I fucked a girl!.

_________________
They call me the cat whisperer, cause I know exactly what the pussy needs.

See? That's the problem.

You had car trouble. That's a legit reason.
The huge issue is your neediness. You'd walk if you had to. You're talking as if this is the first and last woman on this planet. And you haven't even had sex yet!
There is absolutely no reason for which you should be so invested in this girl. And this enormous over-investment is repelling to her.
Do you honestly think it's appropriate for a girl, and I'm saying this the 20th time, THAT YOU HAD NO EVEN HAD SEX WITH to meet your parents?

Look OP, bottom line is, as I've said, you have no other options and it's painfully obvious. That shit is repelling towards women. You're interpreting this situation as if you were in a 1 year long relationship. You aren't.

Don't contact her again. Ever. Unless she does. When she does, decide what you wanna do.

_________________
I know my place. It's me on top of the world.

My in depth texting & dating guide.
There's no such thing as shit-tests.
How to keep a girl.

Thanks man.... Much appreciated

I'll be honest again, I'm turning 27 the 1St of Jan, but I've never had sex before.... The "heavy petty" I had with this girl is the furthest I've gotten....
Anyway, enough of my shit... Hahaha

Alright, I took what you said to heart and I'm going to work on myself and signed up with a local relationship/dating/life coach to help sort me out.

She's not cheap, but I genuinely want to improve and not make this mistake again...

So thanks again

Ask for the 'Happy Ending'

_________________
They call me the cat whisperer, cause I know exactly what the pussy needs.