I realize I'm kind of asking the same questions, but I think this is different....

So I went out and made some approaches. Generally, they talked back to me for a few seconds, but this brought a new problem into light.... I have to have some follow up conversation past the initial "opener," however clever or direct that opener might be.... it does me no good to sit there with nothing to say after that.

What are some general guidelines for keeping the conversation going?

Should I ask about them? Should I tell them about myself? Do I need to introduce myself with some kind of strong identity to separate myself from everyone else.

I think if I genuinely show an interest in getting to know them, that might be the best route, and this would assume that they would want to talk to me in the first place.

How do I show them that I am a person that is worth having in their life, whether it be just for a conversation at a bar, or transitioning into their every day life and knowing them more than just at a bar stool.

I see other guys at bars talking to girls for hours, and I always think "what the hell do they have to talk about for hours?"

Is there anyone on here who has done this many of times and could offer me a clue?

Who am I? Who are they? And why do they want to know me?

What value do I have to offer them?

What do you think of this shirt? Should I wear it when I go out?

Stop.

Really? Why?

I swear I'm not trolling. I actually wore this shirt one day and girls came up to me. Some of them even wanted a picture.

Why'd you take a picture of the t shirt in a mirror so that the writing is backwards? I had to write it out to work out what it the whole thing said

Anyway, the reason you are seeing people talk to girls for ages is because they're past the uncomfortable stage. When you open the girl you don't have much of a connection and so the conversation isn't going to flow like it would with a friend. Try and elaborate on one topic rather than ask a series of questions/topic changes so that it feels more like natural conversation

I would probably follow up from the opener (which would probably just be 'Hi, I'm Clocks' or some shit) by asking about who she's here with and what the occasion is. I.e. here's how it could go:

Me: Hi, I'm Clocks (hold hand out to shake)
Them: I'm girl A and girl B (shakes my hand)
Me: So you 2 are obviously out together - what is it, some sort of girls night out?

blah blah blah

Just practice and you'll come up with stuff. If I run out of things to say, I like to call it out (it only really happens very early on in the interaction):
'I didn't really have anything to say, I just wanted to come meet you'

Then they might come up with a topic or it gives you a bit of a breather

Yes, I just went out down town fully intending to wear that shirt. But right before I got out of the car, I decided it was stupid and I took it off.

I went out and one thing I noticed is..... there are hundreds of girls that look like models. Do you ever get those emails telling you "How to date models?".... well there are girls who aren't professional models that are just as hot as models.

I went out and I just started thinking about that book Models by Mark Manson and how much sense it made. How it's more important to invest in yourself and how girls can notice that. Despite the fact that I didn't say a single word to anyone except a bartender I already knew, I felt confident and a lot of eyes on me. Could be just mental masturbation, though.

The opener that Clocks said was very simple. I have done that before. There has to be some substance behind it, though after that. How do you turn that into a conversation?

Beyond simple openers, and Clocks example was a perfect example of how simple they should be, there is some underlying intention that needs to be exposed.

This may go against everyone here, but I think I may be past the point of treating a girl like a disposable cum rag and where there actually has to be something there that makes me want to know them. Like I said in a previous post, the last time I went out and a girl wanted to have sex with me, I turned it down.

I've had sex before.

I hope that I can get past the "uncomfortable" stage. I sure as hell hope so. Unless the girl says "hey want to go have sex?"... I think it might be a little uncomfortable talking about surface topics. I so badly want to have sex with a hot girl. Like a really hot one. And I see hot girls all the time with boyfriends and don't tell me how I know, but I can just tell those guys don't fuck them right. I want to fuck the hot girls just like I've fucked the ugly ones. It's all the same feeling.

And once you find out why they're out, who they are there with, etc.... how do you extend the conversation after you get the little facts out? And, referring back to the books, there is a point where you have to become something more than a "bar fantasy" or "club fantasy" and be able to transition into their normal life. Why would they want to give you their phone number? Just so you can talk to them again at a bar someday?

They probably work 40 hours or go to school, etc. What are these girls out to do? Maybe some just to have fun. Some are with friends, or a boyfriend (which makes me wonder why they are at a bar in the first place).

Also, i noticed the importance of social proof. It is a lot easier to talk to people when you are in a place where you already know some people, such as a bar where you know the bartenders. It shows that you are sociable. Smiling and being friendly to everyone is a great place to start.

I can't read minds, but I would venture to guess in the mind of a girl... they are wondering whether they want to know you in their "real" life and not just to talk to you in a bar one day. Their real life where they are shitting on a toilet, getting sick sometimes, working or going to school, even talking to their friends, family, etc.

Also, I have to start working out and eating healthier. When you're up close, these things come to the surface right away. Do I want to be a skinny guy or a muscular guy? The choice is pretty obvious. And I can sit home all day neglecting my nutrition, but as soon as I get up close to the "trenches" (as Dragula would call it).... my malnutrition becomes apparent to me and I wish I would have ate a plate of pasta rather than drinking energy drinks all day.

Also, when I go out, one of two things can happen:

1: I order one drink, then another and another and another.... then I become a drunk guy smoking cigarettes on the patio who probably has to call a cab.

2: I can not drink, or maybe drink one... and not only would I be healthier, but it would also help my financial situation. And rather than get super drunk, I would actually talk to people. This hasn't happened too often yet. Although, I have, at times, gotten really drunk and talked to people like some sort of social butterfly. But alcohol should not be a legitimate tool for this.

Also, to quote the book Models once again. You have to be aware and open about your emotions, and just like it said in that book.... there's a lot of resentment. Why? I don't know. I noticed that I was slightly mad at complete strangers. But, the book called this the "pain period" and I guess it's just something I have to work through.

Why do I have so many issues? Did anybody else have real bad emotional issues when they started?

I have just tiptoed in the trenches at this point, but I'm a lot better than I was when I first got on here. Remember when I used to just wear a suit and brag about a fortune that I don't even have?

I just had a brilliant idea. When you talk to a girl in the intro.... say impressive facts about yourself. Tell them you just built a house from scratch or something (if it is true). Display value.

Last night I was at a bar and this guy who was a regular there that I had talked to a few months ago started talking to me. He asked me how my real estate business was going. I told him it was going well and that I was about to get into exotic car rentals and I'm going to rent a Lamborghini on Miami Beach that will profit over $120,000/year. I noticed all the girls around starting looking at me. Could be just mental masturbation, but I don't think so.

That is what I'm passionate about. I'm not going to sit there and ask them if they like magic tricks.

I am about to start a business where I build houses from scratch, then rent them until I can sell them. I will do as much of the labor myself as I can. That is me. Honesty always comes through and your true character will always come through. Now, it is another story to have to impress a drunk girl at a bar with this who has the audacity to wear a ring on her finger even though she's not that hot in the first place.

When I get one-on-one with a girl right now, I feel like I give off the vibe of...... this guy is "bad news" and he wants to devour my life. Not a good thing.

I can spend all day filling out permits, doing my own architecture, talking to government departments, but what good is it if it doesn't "impress" some girl(s).... and how would they even know about it if I don't tell them. But it is more likely more impressive than anything they've ever done. They most likely sit in a chair all day, whether that be at school or at their "job."

And, to quote Majikal...... I'm still a creep! I don't know what to do about that. When a girl stands next to me, intentionally or not.... I just think.... "wow your hair smells so good. Want to come back to my place?" What do you think would happen if I said that?

I just thought of a brilliant idea. I'm going to get a shirt that says "my name LLC" and then my phone number (or business phone). This way, it will lead into talk about my business. Yay!!!! Good for me. That's peacocking for you! (not that anyone is probably still reading at this point).

Don't wear the shirt. You're not at a level where you can get away with things like that yet.

_________________
I know my place. It's me on top of the world.

My in depth texting & dating guide.
There's no such thing as shit-tests.
How to keep a girl.

I actually did a few months ago when I had a bunch of confidence because I thought I was about the be the next Donald Trump. One hot bartender asked me "is that a true story?" and then would ask me about the shirt every time I came back there.

And about 20 people took pictures of me.

I so badly want to wear that shirt again.

I'm getting a shirt made soon that has "my name" and then LLC so people could ask me about my business. And I might get another one made about Lamborghini rentals. I was talking about that to a guy at a bar and I "thought" I saw all the girls glancing at me when I said it.

That confidence was temporary. Even the worst player can score a home run once in his life. That doesn't make him a superstar. Just a nobody with one moment of glory.

You're way to obsessed with this need of compensating. I don't mean this in a disrespectful way, but I don't even own a car and get more pussy than you would driving a Lambo.

And if you would it'd be attributed to nothing but the shiny car.

If that's who you wanna become than by all means, keep building what you're building. Shit like that attracts low quality women. I don't know why you'd want that, but it's your choice.

Your problem is not the shirt you wear nor the things you say or do. It's why you're wearing it and why you doing/saying it.

_________________
I know my place. It's me on top of the world.

My in depth texting & dating guide.
There's no such thing as shit-tests.
How to keep a girl.

I am sorry to tell you, but if you think you are going to profit 120,000$ a year renting a Lamborghini in Miami you are kinda retarded in the brain.

Sorry to pick that up.

Stop trolling the forum, redstar.

You've asked the same thing 50 times, and you even know it. It's the first line in your post.