Hey guys,

Well... I didn't want to do this, but I feel like I've done all I can to be fair ...

So there's a lot of people I would refer to as "vultures" on this forum....

People who will give you just enough advice to get you out into the field so that they can then pick over your carcass when you die in the sun.....

People who want money for knowledge that men used to share among themselves freely!

And these men think the only path to enlightenment is for you to be like them?!?!

Screw that. When I was a young man we gave each other these tips for free. I'm sick of the commoditization of love, and it being withheld for lack of wallet.

So, what free resources are available for men like me, who don't want to take advice from someone selling them a product?

I know all websites make money when you use some product that is related to the page, like advertising, but this doesn't bother me because I use Ad Block Plus.

And, I'm going to put in a plug for Dr. Nerdlove. No, I do not work with them or for them. I'm sure there's bad information on the site, and it does tend to repeat a lot of the same mantras, but I'm pretty happy for what it offers for free.

What else is there thats fucking FREE?!

Watch me get banned for this post .... I'm sure I've stepped on a sacred cow with this post.

You're not going to get banned for it.

Who's trying to sell you?

I'll say this: There are a lot of smart guys here. So smart with this stuff that it's literally their jobs. Of course they charge for in-depth consults or boot camps (or whatever).

Do you do your job for free?

I can say all this because I'm not a coach. I don't charge for anything. I also don't really offer anything besides my opinion on posts and problems.

Nobody is making you buy anything. Lot of guys who coach and teach professionally know their shit really well. You'll also find some good opinions and insights from those users who just want to help -- It may not be as personalized and in-depth as you'd get from someone who's going to SPAM with you for an hour and take the time to coach you personally though.

Have you got an issue and you can't/don't want to pay? Post it up, man. I'm happy to look. The forum will always be free.

You can also try the chat if you need advice in a hurry.

Oh. No, I'm good. Just this girl I posted about before. She's got a bf. Everyone on here was saying I should ask her out and then try to escalate immediately while she's still dating this guy.

First off, I know this sounds cliche, but I can't just move to the next girl with this one. I need to do some really far-sighted game and not fuck this up.

Asking her to cheat on her bf is not really something I want to do considering that I wouldn't want her if she was willing to cheat on her guy in the first place, especially if it's because she thinks I'm better. This would mean she's just a hypergamous social climber who would do the same to me. If that's true, I don't want to fucking know about it, because she really does seem like a sincere person and I would rather live with this illusion than join the cynical game of infidelity.

Aside from that, I've messed around with girls who have a bf before and even if they do sleep with you, they may stay focused on the other guy. This experience can really fuck with my emotions. I don't want to deal with that..

I want her to end the relationship with this other guy first. I want her to make herself available and make it clear that she's available.

You say you wrote/asked about her before on here? I had a look and found a few that you asked about -- is this the acupuncturist?

Just want to be sure before I drop some advice... because there's a lot of background info on here about her already...

What are you talking about? So you don't want her to be the type of girl that cheats but you want her to be the type of girl who you can get to dump someone or end a relationship due to your actions? Look man..there are many free resources but at the end of the day you can't get this chick. You can either keep this fantasy going or you can improve yourself and put the time in to be better with women.

I think this forum is one of the greatest free resources on the planet. What more could you want? There are always lots of free articles, videos, and PDF's of free books all throughout the internet. Thousands upon thousands of them. There is also a public chat with guys giving out free help all day long. Check it out.

And I personally believe you should reach into your pocket to support the people who create material to help you improve your life. If you download someones PDF of free book and you enjoy it, go back and buy it. Show support for whoever it is that helped you. You sound a bit ungrateful.

I don't think its a surprise that all of the guys looking for things for "free" seem to always be on a "budget". The people that are more open to give, seem to "have".

Why does anyone pay for anything? Why don't we all just do everything for free.

How do you show appreciation to the people that take time and energy out of there day to help you? Whats the exchange. They do for you, and then you do what? Do you care about them or do you just want them to care about you?

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You're the one who's the "vulture" for wanting shit for free. Just don't be an idiot and buy into bullshit marketing. Of something means enough to you... You'll find a way to make enough money for it. Find someone who genuine is trying to help you. You kinda have to be able to read peoples intentions. (which, funny enough, most of the guys who get into all this shit are terrible at just that... reading people.)

I have my shit all straightened out. I don't need to spend any of my time on this forum. I make a living by coaching though and clients do find me through here... THAT is why I post on here. Honestly, this forum pisses me off. There is so much negativity on forums that I try to limit the amount of time I spend on here. (Posts like this are annoying...)

In order for the advice to be effective, the person giving it needs to care about you. Most likely a friend or family member. Or... you can pay someone to care about you. Does charging mean I don't genuinely care about my guys? I do. From the very bottom of my heart I do. I've lost sleep and gotten physically sick trying to help guys. I've flown across the country and gone to night clubs with a 103 degree fever. Been punched in the face for defending guys who I was coaching. I've listen to grown men cry and tell me deep stories about their fucked up pasts. I have to listen to that shit!! I LIVED OUT OF A FUCKING MCDONALDS BECAUSE I WAS SPENDING ALL MY TIME COACHING AND NOT MAKING ENOUGH MONEY DOING IT!!!! I should do all that for free?! Do you do that much at your job?!

People pay me... so I deliver. If you can't invest and show me that you care... why should I give a fuck? I don't know you. I don't owe you anything.

What type of things do you get for free?

Pens
Calendars
Coffee Mugs
Water

Things of that nature... But not advice. From strangers. On the internet. That involve things about your deep personal issues.

I'm trying to be as nice as possible but I really can't help but telling you to to fuck off... If you really want something... not having enough money for it is just an excuse. Make more money and quit being a leech.

And the fact that I'm 90% sure I spent a few hours on the phone helping you... for FREE... then you would run off and say some ignorant shit like this..... Pffft... I don't know who's the bigger asshole... You or me for wasting my fucking time?

duplicate post .. ignore

The only people who are REALLY going to actually help you are going to charge you alot for it because of the amount of effort it takes to help someone actually change.

You keep talking like there is something that you learn or do to meet girls. You have to make changes to who you are. And nobody is going to help you do that for free. Sorry.

Yes, it is...
Meh.. whatever....


Certain people on here want an hourly rate, for their services, that is 2-3X what I would make as a contractor, and is at least 4-5X what I make as an employee, and at least 2-3X what an independent teacher in any other skill would charge for lessons (e.g. music, the arts, tutoring,).

At best, their hourly rates are about 1.5X what I would pay a consultation with a doctor, who has completed 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school and 4 years of residency, unless we are talking about the cost of doing surgery or something.... And no, I really don't think that hanging out in clubs, grooming, partying and then going to bed with women is the same thing as getting an education in performing surgery. Sorry, I just don't see the level of self-sacrifice as being equivalent.

Anyone who has talked to me knows that I AM willing to pay for these services, I'm just not willing to pay through the nose, or offer my first born son, for these services. Listen to me, the customer, when I say that ppl are missing out on business because they're asking more than I'll ever be able to afford. It's a supply and demand thing and so far I'm not able to rationalize paying what is being asked.

I have spent 5 years in college, 5 years in grad school, and 10 years as an employee to make my wages that are a pittance compared to what you are asking. I had to dig myself into a mountain of debt to get the education just to make a fraction of what you are asking.

Paying off these debts could be considered working for free.

Working without pay in grad school absolutely was working for free, no doubt about it.

Working at the local community college, making close to minimum wage, teaching people who didn't want to be there, was pretty close to working for free.

I have paid my dues.

And, yes, there ARE people on the internet who are ready, willing, and able to give sound advice on serious topics for free. They're called friends. I have a network of strangers, people I have never met, who are willing to share information they could otherwise hide, because they are passionate about what they do and we have good rapport. They give, freely, information that has taken them decades to acquire.

Anyways, back to my OP. Let's get back to the subject of free resources...... What is out there, excluding coaches?



Yes, I know coaching is not free.. I am talking about articles and ebooks... Let's stay on topic.. I'm a little disappointed that I let myself rant for the last however many minutes.... articles and ebooks.... for those of us who are able to make changes in our lives with a "Do It Yourself" mentality..

Coaching is good for those who need it and want it, but some people, for whatever reason, want to go it alone and make their own way by reading .... That's me...

If you're not willing to pay through the nose... then you aren't serious. It's just a "hobby" for you.

If you want cheap help... expect the amount of effort put into the help to be "cheap" too.

To answer your question.... I don't know where you can find cheap advice because I don't support it.

So good luck to you... cheap ass.

Just go out there and talk to real girls. Once your done for the day, read the forum. You'll start realizing what you've been doing right and what you're doing wrong because you are combining real life experience and the knowledge of the group.

Just remember that you're getting what you pay for when you go the cheap route.

_________________
mpuaforum.proboards.com

Right. I only wish I could reach the same level of enlightenment and happiness as you, dear sir.

So, for my contribution to society, I'm being paid 1/5th of what you're asking for yours, hourly. Am I entitled to give 1/5th the effort in my endeavors, since the price of my labor is "cheap"?

What troubles me is the subtext or metamessage of PUA coaching, which is that PUA time and experience is supposedly worth 5x my time and experience. If I made close to the same rates as what PUA coaches charge, I wouldn't have a problem paying what they ask.

But I have a problem with the idea that what I do is only worth a fraction of what they do.

It's a serious slap in the face, to tell me that I need to give you nearly half of a day's pay for one hour of your time, otherwise I'm a "cheap ass" because your time is more valuable than mine.

Sage advice. Thank you.