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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 8:08 pm 
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But isn't that usually the case?
It usually is. Men are more invested in women before sex and less invested after. With them it's exactly the other way around.

At the same time she has to know that you like her, but can and will drop her in a heartbeat if need be. Not only that, but you'll be spending your time with a woman of at least equal value by the end of the day.
Willingness to walk away does not mean not caring for her. It simply means caring for yourself more, which is something she'll always moan about, but it will also be the reason for both why she'll never leave your side and her genuine love you for it.

One more thing OP. Seeing her almost daily is fine. As long as you're not sacrificing your own schedule to achieve that. If you do your own thing and she tags along that's perfect. But the moment you cancel your plans with someone else to be with her you start treading on very thin ice.

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Last edited by R.C on Tue May 12, 2015 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 8:12 pm 
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I don't see any issues here if I understood it correctly. You weren't monogamous at the time, and she even gave you her phone which unless she's reaaaaaaally stupid, is a huge sign of trust in you and your rational level.

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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 9:18 pm 
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But please, don't confront her verbally, or let your self-esteem be rocked by this one chick.
I know exactly how stupid confronting her verbally would be. Thankfully I do not have the urge to do so nor do I see any point in it.
My self esteem will be fine most likely, but thank you for the kind words.

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I get the pedestal idea from how he excuses her lying whether or not they were serious. She owes him nothing but if they were supposedly open about other flings it's still dishonest. That an the fact she owns the frame of whether sex will happen... Nothing necessarily wrong with it but she knows she has him. By the amount of time they together to start. As I said I just encourage the guy to proceed and escalate better.
Ok, look. I don't know why you think she lied about us being serious, because that's a conversation we never even had. Yes we used to talk about side projects, and that's normal up to a point. But once you start getting "close", the constructiveness of those types of talks goes out the window. It's like push/pull. It works wonders, unless you over-push it.

She never said "he's just a friend" and then went fucking him behind my back. I don't even know whether or not there's something there and frankly I don't care. I just assumed he was friendzoned because that was my read on the guy.

However, I will agree with you on the sex frame thing. Yes, she does own it. But isn't that usually the case? Owning it myself never happened unless I wasn't really attracted to the girl in the first place and couldn't give a shit less about her. Which is hardly any fun for me.

I never said she lied about being serious with you. Look, she didn't tell you about a guy she liked that you know. That's a fact. As I said..doesnt mean she's a bad girl or something, it's just a fact. The way you keep changing that as if I'm saying fuck the cheating whore or something screams to me the whole pedestaling thing I stated. It's not to demotivate you..it's not to bash her..it's not to make you do anything but realize a fact..she didn't tell you. Her reasons could be whatevr and they could be good. I'm not harping on her for keeping a secret but she kept a secret. There is no judgement on her with that statement so don't see one. If I meet a girl for a one night stand and she doesn't tell me her correct name or she hides some info from me..it's not a big deal but the fact is she hid something. Your reluctance to just say oh yeah she did keep that from me when I thought we were both being open.. Oh well..is what makes me see over investment. Again it doesn't mean she's a bad person..it just tells you she wasn't as open as you thought. Fact. It doesn't have to mean she hid something so she's xyz it just means she hid something and wasnt being open as you believed.

Good luck and just change things up when you get her alone.


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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2015 9:32 pm 
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KeepItNatural wrote:
But isn't that usually the case?


It usually is. Men are more invested in women before sex and less invested after. With them it's exactly the other way around.
Now I have to disagree with this. Women like sex and want to have it just as much as men do and if it weren't for outside influences and the fear of being judged, it would be a lot easier for them. Unfortunately for women, being a slut carries a stigma but for a man it's fine because he's just being a man. Meet a woman in a bar/club or even on vacation, the odds of her having sex with a guy that she has just met goes up drastically. Why? The judgemental repercussions don't exist. That makes sex an equal investment for both the man and the woman.

Now let's take that and put it on a woman that's known by the group of people that you hang out with. She is going to assume the moment that she has sex with you, the group knows that it's happened and her slut value goes up. Even worse if it gets out that she's had sex with two guys that are acquaintanced with each other.

The trick is holding a sexual frame from the beginning. Allowing her to understand that you are viewing her in a sexual way and she should see you in the same sexual way. Getting her to understand that sex isn't going to have negative repercussions is important. Her tagging along and seeing you from the same point of view of a group diminishes being viewed as a sexual being (usually).

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 6:44 am 
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KeepItNatural wrote:
But isn't that usually the case?


It usually is. Men are more invested in women before sex and less invested after. With them it's exactly the other way around.
Now I have to disagree with this. Women like sex and want to have it just as much as men do and if it weren't for outside influences and the fear of being judged, it would be a lot easier for them. Unfortunately for women, being a slut carries a stigma but for a man it's fine because he's just being a man. Meet a woman in a bar/club or even on vacation, the odds of her having sex with a guy that she has just met goes up drastically. Why? The judgemental repercussions don't exist. That makes sex an equal investment for both the man and the woman.

Now let's take that and put it on a woman that's known by the group of people that you hang out with. She is going to assume the moment that she has sex with you, the group knows that it's happened and her slut value goes up. Even worse if it gets out that she's had sex with two guys that are acquaintanced with each other.

The trick is holding a sexual frame from the beginning. Allowing her to understand that you are viewing her in a sexual way and she should see you in the same sexual way. Getting her to understand that sex isn't going to have negative repercussions is important. Her tagging along and seeing you from the same point of view of a group diminishes being viewed as a sexual being (usually).
You're 100% correct. And the side effect of what you just explained leads to men being more invested in women before sex.

Since it's "harder" for them to give it up, we have to "convince" them to. That leads to us being more invested. Doesn't matter if it's by 1%. And once they do give it up, they become more invested.

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 9:25 am 
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You're 100% correct. And the side effect of what you just explained leads to men being more invested in women before sex.

Since it's "harder" for them to give it up, we have to "convince" them to. That leads to us being more invested. Doesn't matter if it's by 1%. And once they do give it up, they become more invested.
I actually understand why you see it this way because years ago I also had the belief that I would have to convince a woman that is already attracted to me to have sex with me and I invested a lot of unnecessary time and energy into it.

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 9:34 am 
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You're 100% correct. And the side effect of what you just explained leads to men being more invested in women before sex.

Since it's "harder" for them to give it up, we have to "convince" them to. That leads to us being more invested. Doesn't matter if it's by 1%. And once they do give it up, they become more invested.
I actually understand why you see it this way because years ago I also had the belief that I would have to convince a woman that is already attracted to me to have sex with me and I invested a lot of unnecessary time and energy into it.
By convincing I mean what you said yourself:
Quote:
Getting her to understand that sex isn't going to have negative repercussions is important.

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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 10:05 am 
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By convincing I mean what you said yourself:
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Getting her to understand that sex isn't going to have negative repercussions is important.
Yeah...but that doesn't mean words. That's character. If you're trying to convince, you're setting yourself up for failure.

But we are at the point of thread derailment. If you'd like inbox me and we can go into details.

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