This is GF related, and I've encountered it before both myself and with buddies (male and female). Curious to know what the consensus is.

Never ever drop anyone for anyone else. It demonstrates total weakness and subservience plus a lack of loyalty to "friends".

As a relationship develops and progresses, you will both naturally move away from others. One thing is guaranteed, females never surrender their options, no matter what may appear on the surface.

The key to a healthy relationship is having many other options.

Never ever drop anyone for anyone else. It demonstrates total weakness and subservience plus a lack of loyalty to "friends".

As a relationship develops and progresses, you will both naturally move away from others. One thing is guaranteed, females never surrender their options, no matter what may appear on the surface.

The key to a healthy relationship is having many other options.

I agree completely, with exception of holding onto a female friend who has beyond-friends interest in you.

And again, this is why you fail. It's like throwing away the ace up your sleeve. Please explain to us why getting rid of a female friend who has beyond-friends interest in you is beneficial to your cause. Particularly after you seem to agree that females never surrender their own options.

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You must be overconfident and cocksure, even if you haven't got a god damn thing in the world going for you. And you must fail with women until you do not fear the possibility of failure, whereupon you will succeed wildly.

I remember you, you aren't too bright. So I'll save my time and not even bother. Bye:)

And I remember you; you don't have too much success with women.

OP, the reason why you hold onto a female friend who has beyond-friends interest in you is because it serves the dual purpose of a) having a backup plan in case it doesn't work out with your current girlfriend, and b) having a "check" against the innumerable orbiters to whom you'll be compared if you date a very attractive woman. Women like men with options because it communicates that said men are desirable, which has biological and social benefits. Getting rid of an option reduces those benefits.

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You must be overconfident and cocksure, even if you haven't got a god damn thing in the world going for you. And you must fail with women until you do not fear the possibility of failure, whereupon you will succeed wildly.

Hey chantos.. To your 2 points...

A) why do you need a backup plan if it doesn't work out? See to me that sounds like you're already in the relationship incorrectly. If she dumps you tomorrow, you need a backup plan if you don't have good friends, hobbies, passion, stuff going on....see how if you need a backup plan that signals there are more important things lacking?

B) why do you need a female friend to communicate you have options? What does that say about how you are with your gf? If you need something external to see you as a catch? I never get this...

Maybe you can explain. It just seems like you're 2 points are the other areas of my life suck so I'm going to hide behind another chick wanting me. Like saying if things end today I have such shitty friends and life would be so rough without a gf that I would need to have a chick who likes me easily assessible.. Since there are guys after my gf I need to beat them by having chick's into me...NOT by just being better. Maybe you can clarify.

Hey neo, i guess the best way to respond to your first question is to ask you why anyone wants a gf at all if he's completely satisfied in life with good friends, hobbies, passion, stuff going on, etc.? my guess is having a gf enriches particular areas of your life that the other stuff can't always satisfy. otherwise we'd all just develop incredible inner game and never deal with any of this, right? so having a backup option is a means of keeping the status quo in whatever areas your current gf satisfies you that the other stuff you're talking about can't. in my opinion it makes no sense to sacrifice that for the sake of your current gf, who isn't sacrificing any of her orbiters.

as to the second point, you don't *need* a girl liking you to communicate options... but a girl who likes you is in fact an option, right? i mean, that's what options are. girls who like you. so my question is why you'd knowingly get rid of a girl who likes you as more than friends just because you think it's the "proper" thing to do in your relationship? every single guy who is friends with your girlfriend has a high chance of being sexually attracted to her as well. is your girlfriend supposed to never talk to any other guys? it's impossible to do that in 2015 in america. and yet it seems like you're confused as to why i think it's ridiculous for you to completely break communication with a cool girl who thinks you're attractive and wants to date you. let's forget about all the "looking attractive for future options" angles and just think for a second-- how beta is that, to totally stop talking to a cool person because your gf doesn't want you to, or because you think it makes you a better boyfriend? that's insane. i'd never do that. you wouldn't either.

my underlying message to n2 is that your gf will be more attracted to you if other women are attracted to you. that's the truth. and i don't understand why anyone would think excommunicating an attractive friend who is romantically interested in you, who you could possibly date in the future, and whose interest actually increases you current gf's interest in you as well-- why excommunicating someone like that is supposed to be the right thing to do in any circumstance? if your girlfriend is truly worth keeping she's not going to give you an ultimatum or force you not to talk to other girls. she's going to trust you. and if she's worth it then you're not going to go behind her back. simple as that man.

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You must be overconfident and cocksure, even if you haven't got a god damn thing in the world going for you. And you must fail with women until you do not fear the possibility of failure, whereupon you will succeed wildly.

But just for the sake of clarifying my views: the correct answer to this question is to next any girl who legitimately demands such a thing as not speaking to friends of the opposite gender. The *only* scenario where this would be acceptable is one in which a girl is hitting on you and you're blatantly hitting on her too and your gf catches you in the act. In that situation if a girlfriend *doesn't* ask that you stop communicating to a potential threat, then either she's not that interested in you, is doing that same thing to you, or has unhealthily low self-esteem.

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You must be overconfident and cocksure, even if you haven't got a god damn thing in the world going for you. And you must fail with women until you do not fear the possibility of failure, whereupon you will succeed wildly.

Yes...A gf fills some place that the other stuff doesnt. But look at the mentality you're taking about. If gf dumps you, you need something to fill that space. Theres a difference between someone ENRICHING your life and someone filling a void. See, this is where the neediness seeps in, there is a distinction between something enriching and something that is filling a hole that if it disappears you need it filled with a backup. Gf leaves, you cant just chill and do your own thing, you need another chick in your life for sex or emotional connection. Why not just chill for a while? If something enriches your life, you can go without it for a while. If you're dependent on something you need a backup or a new chick right after. So women are something you're dependent on, not something that adds to your life.

Also, why wife up chicks with orbiters? I'm sorry but I dont think I've seriously dated a chick in the past 5 years who had orbiters. Orbiters are a symptom of low self esteem women. A guy wants to fuck them or likes them, and they use the guy for attention and favors. I dont know a chick I've seriously dated who would spend time with a guy they didnt genuinely like as a friend to use for attention or for them to pay for stuff. This is what you find with independent, mature women. Sure, I've met chicks who had orbiters, but these are the girls who have time to spend with lame dudes so they can feel good about themselves and I wont seriously consider these girls gf material. Orbiters arent a symptom of highly attractive women, they're a symptom of lse women. Gf material isnt keeping a ton of lame dudes around because she likes the attention. Gf material is having a good time with her real friends and she's not that desperate for company to lead on some dudes for attention. Yes, there are very attractive girls who are attention whores. DO NOT MAKE THEM YOUR GIRLFRIEND.
My thing with stuff like this is...focus on the chick you're with. If a chick is a good friend, keep her, but not for the sake of some preselection thing. If you're taking care of business at home, you dont need your female friends trying to be with you. I've met way too many dudes in PU who when they get a gf, they focus on keeping these other chicks around them who like them and they lose their gf, simply because instead of being the fun guy that their gf enjoys, they try to show her her other girls want what she has. Eventually, all that matters is how your gf feels. If the relationship is boring, doesnt matter if you have 10's begging to suck your cock, the girlfriend will leave. If the relationship is fun, doesnt matter if you have 0 female friends, because she knows you can get girls.

My stance is, you shouldnt wife up a chick with orbiters in the 1st place. Stop accepting these things as normal hot girl behavior. Accepting these kinda chicks is what makes guys think it's normal that their gf "shit tests" them all the time when she's just a rude, negative person, and it's normal for her to flirt with dudes because "she's testing your frame." Pick better women who dont need the attention like that. Focus on making your relationship fun and truly something that adds to your life, not something that if it disappears, you gotta have another chick soon because you wont be able to function. Keep it fun so that she is attracted to you not jealous that you have a hot friend.

I think you're superimposing that mentality onto what I'm saying. This isn't coming from a place of neediness. It's coming as my response to someone who is saying "get rid of girls as friends who like you more than friends because that is what a good boyfriend should do." My response is, "Hey, girls like it when other girls like you, and if you're genuinely trying to find the best girl to be with you, why would you willfully exclude another option?" If my gf left me today I'd do exactly what you're saying as far as chilling and enjoying life. I wouldn't rush to another girl to fill some void. But you're confusing what I'm saying. I'm simply saying that I'm not going to get rid of my options *preemptively*, because it's not a logical thing to do, moreover it (ironically) harms your current relationship by creating stagnancy on both sides.

All of that is just supplementary explanation, though. The actual response is "don't ever let your girlfriend tell you who to hang out with." You agree with that, right?
You're conflating definitions here. A quality woman isn't something that guys overlook. If you're dating a solid girl, she's going to have guys all over her hitting on her under the guise of friendship. She's also going to have genuinely friendly guys who genuinely think she is cool as well as being attractive. These are still orbiters. You're assuming every girl with orbiters is a low self-esteem girl who is starved for attention. Why? That's a misstep on your part because it's not the fact that she has orbiters or the number of orbiters she has, but rather how she responds to the orbiters that dictates her self-esteem. Every hot girl WILL have orbiters. Period. Male friends who continuously hang around are orbiters. They don't have to be used for money or attention. They don't have to be losers. They can be co-workers, they can be trainers, they can be literally any guy in any walk of life hanging out with your girlfriend when you're not around, so long as they find her physically attractive. So by saying you wouldn't wife up a girl with orbiters, you're constructively saying not to wife up a very attractive woman.

The "genuinely like as a friend" angle is where you also show a bit of naivety, too. I once dated a very attractive girl who was genuinely good friends with a guy. And she genuinely left me for him. She wasn't using him for attention or money or anything. They were both photographers and they just spent a lot of time together when I wasn't around, as friends, and it escalated. There's an underlying sexual current in most male/female friendships. Ignore that at your own peril.
Again, this is all a straw-man of what I've been saying. No one is saying ignore your girlfriend for the sake of showing her how many other girls you have interested in you. I'm saying that excommunicating girls who like you more than just friends makes you less attractive and needlessly reduces your options.
My entire point is that if you have 10's begging to suck your cock you're most likely a fun guy and the relationship will most likely be fun. It all goes hand-in-hand. So why would you then go to those 10's, who are also cool and are your female friends, and say "never talk to me again because my girlfriend is jealous and because it's just not right to be friends with you?" And then I go on to explain why doing that actually harms your relationship when you're trying to make it better by getting rid of girls who like you.
Again, you're equating all hot women with needy hot women. Both have orbiters. You're going down all of these rabbit holes by assuming stuff that no one is saying. Who on earth dates a girl who flirts with a ton of orbiters and hangs out with guys just for money and attention? Do you think I do that or something?

I think your overarching message in this forum is always a pretty good one, but man you're just all over the place with these hypothetical viewpoints you're shooting down, viewpoints that aren't even a part of anything I'm saying.

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You must be overconfident and cocksure, even if you haven't got a god damn thing in the world going for you. And you must fail with women until you do not fear the possibility of failure, whereupon you will succeed wildly.

Don't fall into her frame and ditch your female friends to deal with her insecurities. You have the right having a social life just as much as she does.

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Hey Chantos, you're twisting your argument here. I asked 2 questions: why do you need a backup? and 2) why do you need girls who like you to hang around to communicate options? Now you're piggybacking "well you shouldnt let your gf tell you what to do" to appear like that's what was being debated.
Again, you're throwing a bunch of stuff together. So a guy interested in your girl is an orbiter. Ok And a guy who is just friends is an orbiter. Now, I always consider orbiters as guys who only hang out with a girl because she's attractive and they're trying to eventually get something. Orbiting. Hovering. Waiting. Never considered orbiters as a blanket term for male friends or any guys who hangs out with an attractive girl. And just from the fact that the guys around her have eyes and find her physically attractive. So by your reasoning, they dont need to be trying to sleep with her, just find her attractive. Ok, even with that, it's like your argument is breaking down more. What you stated was having a girl with a beyond friends interest with you is comparable to a girl having a friend who just finds her attractive. The girl your describing sounds like a female orbiter, as she has an interest in you; they guys you describe, well some can just think your girl is pretty and not have a beyond friends interest in her. Beyond friends interest is much different and a stronger term than saying someone finds someone attractive. So are you saying since your girl has friends who may have a friendship interest in her, but can just recognize she is hot, that you would need to keep girls around who are interested in more than friends with you?

For the record, I think that if a chick tells you to cut off your female friends you shouldnt. But that would be my choice after carefully assessing whats going on. For eg, I had a female friend who an ex told me she didnt like me talking to because the female friend liked me. I didnt really think anything of it, until I began to realize that the female friend was disrespecting my relationship, ie saying smart comments to my gf and doing passive aggressive girl stuff. I confronted the friend and cut her off, not because my gf said so, but because what the friend did and how she treated my gf was inappropriate and disrespectful to my rs. And if it were the other way around and the friend had said my gf had done catty stuff, I'd have cut the gf off. I've cut off female friends because they disrespected one of my male friends. Regular female friends, to me, that's fine in a relationship. But I wont have a girl who I know is interested in me as a friend while in a relationship. My gf wont have to mention dropping her, because I'd already distance myself. It's just drama. Why would I want to hang out with my gf and a friend who likes me to rub it in the friend's face?

If the orbiter stuff is confusing, it's because you've changed the argument. First I took it as you comparing orbiters who most people would probably assume are guys who are trying to get your girl, ie ORBITING.... with a female friend who has BEYOND FRIEND INTEREST. This makes sense. Because you're saying girls have guys with beyond friend interest ie orbiters, so you have orbiters to, ie girls with beyond friend interest. Now you've turned male orbiter into well he can just be a guy who hangs around with her and finds her attractive. Beyond friends interest. I wont want my gf to hang out with a guy who likes her as more than a friend and she KNOWS that as you would hang with with a girl you KNOW has interest in you. Not even a jealousy thing, I just wont want to date someone who wouldnt have the sense to cut that person off knowing that the guy likes her. But that's just me...I like girls who are considerate enough to realize that hanging out with someone who likes them isnt a good thing for the other person and is just going to give that person the wrong idea or hurt them.

Huh? My entire argument assumed what you're claiming I'm piggybacking. I made that clear in my second post after your first post to me.

1. Don't let your gf tell you what to do.
2. Beyond that, getting rid of options actually harms your relationship this way:
a. you lose a backup option for no reason (where do I say that you *need* the option?)
b. having options communicates attractiveness, thus killing them off harms your relationship (again, where do I say you need them or have to keep them? I simply say this is their worth in the narrow context of your relationship, and this is a supplementary reason (in addition to 1) why you shouldn't unilaterally excommunicate them just because your gf tells you to)
Ok I concede you this point because orbiter is a term that means a zillion things in pua. Narrowly, a beta orbiter is just a loser guy who is hanging around your girlfriend trying to fuck her. And an orbiter is the same thing except perhaps he's not beta.

But in my experience that is a fruitless classification. It's much more functional to classify any guy who is spending a lot of time one-on-one with your girlfriend as an orbiter, especially when it's not required like co-workers or student-teacher. I agree with you that guys and girls can just be friends... to an extent. I would absolutely NOT operate from that perspective if my girlfriend suddenly started spending a lot of time with an attractive guy without me around.

And dude again, I'm not saying you need anything! You don't need to keep other girls around if you don't want them around. That's absolutely operating from a very beta frame. I'm just saying "here are the benefits of having them around, and you shouldn't lose those benefits unnecessarily." If you want to get rid of them then fucking get rid of them. But you will lose the benefits I'm talking about. If you're cool with that then fine.
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Agree with all of this

_________________
You must be overconfident and cocksure, even if you haven't got a god damn thing in the world going for you. And you must fail with women until you do not fear the possibility of failure, whereupon you will succeed wildly.