i just want to add that you are looking at it purely from a success or no loss point of view. experienced gamers can vouch that you can encounter all kinds of negative scenarios when gaming. responses can be negative and unpredictable. even worse the person themselves can be negative and unpredictable. this is why i said that kids shouldn't be anywhere in the picture until you know for sure about the person.

That makes perfect sense.

Just wanted to update on something, too. I got a girl's number at Petsmart today, very nice girl, very attractive, a good prospect from the connection we had.

My kids were there with me. My mom was, as well, since she was visiting me. My kids were standing next to me as I was flirting, but were not there for when I got her number (I left and came back for her number, the situation was interesting, but she seemed ecstatic).

My kids were doing their own thing, talking to each other. I didn't notice completely because I wasn't paying attention to them, but I think the older one was helping the younger one fix his hair, and I noticed she looked at them and gave a genuine "that's adorable" type smile to them. So I'm gathering that my kids are not a problem with her. We'll see, I suppose.

I think you've got the right idea. Having your kids with you can be a big boost, but actually trying to get them to run lines is just not a great idea. Not because "OMG, you need to be celibate, please think of your poor children!" stuff, that most everyone is talking about. But because the kid has no real investment in it. Imagine the reverse. Your son says "Dad, next time I see a cute girl, can you go run this line for me?". Honestly, how well do you think that's going to go? I'd imagine not very well. It's just sort of socially odd to you and it would come off in delivery. It would also get quite old after a while. "Every time we're out, Joe is pointing me at some 5th grader and I ask her the question... *Sigh*".

However, demonstrating that you have kids, and are a good father is a huge boost. And it's definitely worth utilizing. The only reason your kids will have issues with you being with someone other than mom, is if they've been raised with fucked up values. Since it seems like you've kept their heads free of this, I see no problem. It's funny that most in this thread advocate for raising your kids with a repressed backwards mindset in sexuality. Yet they should realize that instilling these mindsets in childhood is exactly what leads to the "AFC" mindset in adults.

You're doing what you should as both a man and a father and I personally tip my hat to you.

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I wouldn't personally do it, but it is genius and it would prep your 10 year old so he won't be scared to talk to women.

Thank you, Versalis.

I appreciate your observation, and I agree.

I've been having good luck with openers and approaches at random stores with my kids present. I just act like they're not there, and they stand back and do their thing. I've noticed that every time I talk to a girl with my kids there, her eyes will divert to them, but it's never in shock; just more in that they see a dad and his kids, as far as I can tell.

I am glad you brought up the AFC mindset; I don't want my kids to grow up with that mindset, and I've always told them both to just be themselves. Divorce is crappy, but I do see it as a positive that they can see their dad going out there and talking to women without any hesitation. The other day the 10 year old was with me and I got this girl's phone number at a fast food place. Afterward, he said "Dad, did you like that girl or something?" I told him "I don't know if I like her bud. I like how she looks, she's really cute looking, don't you think?" He agreed and then asked me if I was going to take her out on a date, and so the conversation went from there. On his end it was a lot of questions, and a lot of "huh. That's interesting" type comments.

So I do see that as a positive for sure.

Come on. Don't get hyperbolic and be too hard on the guy.

My older sister is a single mother, living 2000 miles away from me. She's often invited me to come out to visit, take her kid out to the beach, and use him to pick up girls. (This kid is also a natural with grabbing a cutey's attention). TBH, the offer is tempting. I wouldn't just go out to have a 7 year old wing, it'd be for other reasons, but hey, I do think I could spin it into a cute story.

Honestly, I don't know how I feel about this. I'm conflicted. No, I don't want to see the kids used as pawns, but on the other hand, they are absolutely the most integral part of you that you can display openly. I'm not bothered by the OP's plan so much as I'm concerned about what happens if it succeeds. Yes, having your kids on display is totally fine- they are the biggest part of who you are. But using them for deliberate and self-serving aims troubles me. I'd focus more on just being a cool dad and letting the chips fall as they may, I guess.

I'm havent been a child of divorced parents nor am I a father, so maybe I am not at liberty to say... But to me it sounds like something I would do if I was in your shoes... Maybe you can test it out for 2 weeks or so and if you see any negative effects on the boys then cease immediately... just my 2 cents.

Casually talking and being social with other women while you are with your kids is perfectly normal and fine. As long as you are there for your kids and being a supportive father, I see nothing wrong with occasionally flirting with women when the opportunity presents itself. Get enough attraction and investment for a number close and game her normally and escalate when you are away from your kids.

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Not enough time to make a huge reply, but figured I'd give just a quick synopsis of an update.

My kids have been with me on several occasions now where I've gotten a number. I haven't used them for anything or given them any cheesy lines, they just hang out and do their thing. On one occasion at the mall I got to talking to some girl and my older kid butted into the conversation naturally, because we were talking about movies and horror came up. The 10 year old butted in to let her know "the shining is the greatest horror film ever made!," which she loved hearing and then asked him a couple of questions about his liking for horror. Other than that, they've just hung around and done their thing while I talk to the girls.

A few times when I've called the numbers I've gotten with my kids present, me having kids has come up, and one girl even commented on how she was surprised I was hitting on her with my kids there, but that she thought "it was sweet."

So hey it's working out really well. I just act like myself with my kids around, and it seems to have no glitch!

As far as breaking the AFC mentality in my kids. The older one has a general curiosity still and when I talk to some girl he always tends to ask me if I thought the girl was cute. He started off with the thinking, and asking things like "do you want her to be your girlfriend?", then we talk about just attraction and then girlfriends. He seems to get it pretty well. The younger one has no concept of anything outside of spongebob, so he's not a part of the conversation.

Very cool deal here. Anyone who does have kids, I wouldn't refrain from pickups just because your kids are there. They are neither a roadblock or a jump ahead; they're really just there. If anything maybe their presence helps, since it's a demonstration of higher value, having children and being responsible.

Which reminds me! Fuck! I discovered that when it comes to chicks who already have a kid, I have the ultimate demonstration of higher value story. You see, my older kid is not actually mine. He was my ex-wife's kid from before we even met. We don't look alike in the least bit. But the fact is that I've known him since he was two years old, and so now I consider him my own kid. Even though my ex-wife and I are split, he still visits me just the same as my biological kid, and he calls me dad. That's just the facts of the thing; it's something that I truly believe, he is my kid and that's all there is to it.

I didn't realize until I naturally told this little tid-bit to a girl with a kid, that it is a demonstration of extraordinary higher value. When I told that little tid-bit about me, I'd swear to god her panties got wet right there. She accused me of things like "being a real man," and "any boy can have a child, takes a real man to raise one," and "that is so amazing of you." Like I said, it's a true thing about me personally, I don't have it pocketed as a fake DHV, I just didn't realize that if a girl already has a kid - and even if she doesn't - it's an extreme DHV card for me personally.

Interesting thread. Your ideas are certainly creative....

Many women are very, very attracted to divorced men with kids. They demonstrate desirable traits that can be hard to find: Maturity, ability to commit, responsibility, lack of selfishness, family-oriented, etc. When you're out with your kids, you show all this without even having to say a word. Some women are looking for a ready-made family to step into, particularly ones who cannot have kids of their own.

Of course, there will be other women who want nothing to do with that situation. And what better way to weed them out than for them to immediately be aware that you have kids!

So definitely don't view the situation in a negative light.

I would not actively put them to work to help you get a woman though. There is something a bit unseemly about that, and what if it ever came out in the future? Kids cannot be trusted to keep anything to themselves, and your future girlfriend could be extremely put off by that.

Good luck.

Anyone that doesn't have kids should probably not answer. First, the way you position your post does make you sound a bit like a douche, like you are using your kids, but let's give you the benefit of the doubt, that you love your children and wouldn't put them in a position that might psychologically damage them.

I have two daughters, eight and ten, and when I was single, I approached women quite often with them. Because we are very close, they could see when I was attracted to a woman and often pushed me to go talk to her, or sometimes they'd do it for me and trap me into talking to her.

This is because since they were two years old any time we were in range of other kids their age, I'd push them to go be friendly with those kids, at line at the grocery store, at the cinema, playgrounds, didn't matter they'd have to go. Because of that they are fearless in speaking to others.

I approached it depending on the moment. Sometimes I'd just go talk to a woman and they'd come with me and see how I interacted with women or sometimes I'd "use" them to get something creative going.

I've sent them at an indoor climbing centre to ask for help from a certain woman. I've asked them to get directions from another on the street. They've approached certain sales people in stores to ask for help with clothes.

We'd usually make a plan together and then all laugh whatever happened, the best being when they started up a conversation with a 18 year old girl because they loved her blue hair. I have a rule that I don't want to date anyone that is closer to their age then to my age, which they know, but they did it anyway and so I spent the next 30 minutes chatting up an 18 year old while my girls kept popping up over the seat to laugh at me.

At the end of the day, some kids get really fucked up by divorce, others not. My girls saw that their mother and I didn't fit well together and were really miserable together, so they wanted both of us to find new partners and be happy. Sure they wished we could all be together, but they were mature enough to understood it wouldn't work (even at five they understood it). They also enjoyed being part of the process of dating and giving input on who I dated.

Maybe the way you write this isn't the best and hopefully you aren't exploiting your children, but kids are great wingboys (or wingirls) and can come up with ideas you never thought of. The women you meet will eventually have to love your boys and your boys them. Merging new families is hard work and getting everyone on the same page as quickly as possible is a very good thing.

Maybe just to add, I usually only dated girls without kids and as beautiful and fun as my daughters are, there is almost always a bit of awkwardness when they are present at first. If I were you I'd definitely go out and sarge with your boys, because it's awesome and you'll have more fun with them, but I bet you'll have more success on your own.

I don't think you're a terrible father. My perspective though is that I wouldn't do it if I had kids because it's not a good strategy in the first place and I won't want to divide my time between my kids and approaching women. You can approach...you don't need your kids there or need to do it when you're out with them. You have time to do approaches. You're not with your kids full time and if you don't have a couple hrs free, how are you gonna go on dates or see the women anyway? My one concern is sending the signal over and over to the kids that daddy will leave them for a few mins to talk to a stranger. I'd say don't show them that. When you're out with them be present and don't worry about chick's. Show them they are all that matters and have your undivided attention.