Cliffs:

- Been in the game 7 years
- Slept with quite a few women who I found out ether had bfs or husbands after the fact
- Been in two LTRs that resulted in both cheating on me
- In the second LTR, the gf's friends (whom I shared friends with) knew it was happening and said nothing
- Feel like shit -- not finding a woman that is loyal, honest, or not having a mature relationship that has open communication
- Suggestions? Ideas? Advice? Any material I should be looking at?

Having got in the game nearly 7 years ago, I always aspired to have a relationship with someone, and that one day I would buy a house, get married, have kids, the whole 9 yards kind of deal. Lately though, I have been losing that kind of hope of finding someone on par with me.

I have spent a long time trying to find a fulfilling rewarding relationship with someone that is on par with my friends kind of deal, in terms of honesty, trust, loyalty, and forthrightness. I ended or messed up a number of dating relationships because when she did stuff, it just wasn't meeting the standard I had in mind. Loyalty is a huge trait I look for in other people, and I never really felt that I found it with the women I dated. I developed a pretty keen eye for bullshit through my job, and having a few buddies as cops/officers of the Canadian Border Services Agency (CBSA). A lot of relationships I had with women, I found my bullshit alarms going off at some point.

Part of my development being able to sniff out the BS girls fed me was when I moved to a different province to be with my cousin who is a natural around women. Him and his buddies help strengthened me to become better with women and what not. They always encouraged me to be kind of an ass towards the girls, especially where I'm pretty funny, only showing my nice side later (because I am a really nice kid by nature). We also hooked up with a lot of girls who had boyfriends/husbands. I remember my friend urging me to make a move on a girl who I thought had a bf at the time, all he mentioned was that as long as she doesn't mention the bf, she's fair game. I took her number, fucked her a week later, and found out that she was actually married...when I asked her "why me?" she told me that I seemed interesting, I was an escape from her boring marriage and that she needed some sexual energy in her life. Apparently she didn't get it in a long time. While it felt good to have this kind of power and to be able to do that, it also made me feel a tad uncomfortable about women. If she could do that to her husband of 2 years (dated for another 3), what's to stop a gf from doing that to me?

I remember another time I hooked up with a girl who said she wanted out of her relationship with her bf because he apparently cheated on her...after a month of fucking her I found out she was still living with him (he goes away during the week for work) and they were together for 8 whole years, since high school! In fact, they are still together to this day. I was floored! Any average person would think these two were sure to get married, but she cheated, and didn't seem to care in the least about it.

In the two "serious" relationships I was in. I was quick to jump in because I wanted exclusivity as well. In both relationships my bullshit alarms were going off, one half early and the other pretty later about nearly 4 years in.

The first time, it was my birthday and my gf says she couldn't spend it with me because she had to work. I figured it was OK because we were both poor students at the time and needed money...later on I noticed she posted something on her friends wall that I was also friends with, turns out she wanted to hang out with her...on my birthday, go to some thing, and book time off work. I got really pissed at her for lying to me and I ended it pretty quick. Turns out, through FB she was dating a guy not even a week after we broke up so obviously something was going on there.

The second time followed a similar path. My gf wanted to go to her hometown for her mom's birthday. I wasn't able to at the time because I was moving the day she was gone..but then something came up and I was able to make alternate arrangements and move into my spot on another day. I asked her if I could go with her and she says no...and of course, the alarm bells start going off in my head. I know when a girl is seeing/fooling around with another guy because I've been the other guy a few times. All of her reasons were obvious bullshit and her actions just weren't adding up. I told her I was uncomfortable about the situation, and she just said you're just jealous/overanalyzing and that I needed to trust her. I broke up with her when she came back from her hometown because what she was telling me didn't add up. I felt devastated. I loved her and pictured a future of us being married and having kids, but I couldn't deal with the lingering doubt in my mind of what happened. Sure enough, a male cousin of hers (whom I am also friends with) called me up a month and a half later and told me that she went out home to see this guy that just got out of jail for a few offences and fucked him while we were still together.

No surprise there, but what pissed me off was that her friends and family, who seemed to really like me, didn't tell me anything. I could tell just looking at their faces that something was up. It could have saved me a lot of grief and wondering what happened. But then again, they were all women. It was like the girls were sticking up for each other even though they knew fully well something was wrong, and that they weren't super close friends.

Come to think of it, I have never been steered in the right direction by any woman...

After two relationships, and a few situations of just dating, I feel like shit. I tried looking for "the one". I just want to have an open, honest relationship with lots of communication and so far it has failed dramatically.

I just don't know where to turn or what to do. Suggestions? Ideas? Any advice is appreciated.

That's karma. What goes around comes around.

You don't really sound sorry for doing what you did, WHY should your gfs have felt sorry for it? Double standard with no sense and I doubt there's a rhyme or reason for it. Your morals and what you're about are fucked up, and silly for you to think you deserve any better than what you are.

So the first place to start is what do you want? It seems you like getting girls with other guys as you write as if it makes you more of a man. Maybe you should keep on doing that since you're such a badass.

Or you could actually go the harder route of doing what you did with pickup, failing alot in something and learning as you go. In this case actual RELATIONSHIPS.

In a way I'm in the same boat because I am not good in relationships and don't know how pickup applies to it and doesn't. BUT I am learning

well heres the deal. i don't think what you did was wrong. because you didn't know and its more the girl who should have stopped. but relationships over time get kinda dull and boring. thats why when i want to keep someone around i play a little value game with them. i let them know I'm higher value than them and at first ill hangout with them a lot and have a really good time. but then ill start to slow down, stop hanging out with them as often. i don't ask her to hangout anymore, she has to ask me. and its funny, they start chasing after you a little bit. they get a little clingy. and you can take it as far as you want too.

I added a cliffs at the top of my post. Didn't realize it was that long lol.

I'm not paranoid of girls cheating on me per se. I'll admit, I had trust issues going into my second relationship after the way the first one ended. Looking back, I just don't fully understand the whole relationship dynamics thing. I know I am a good catch for someone. I have a good job, physique, educated, and I get along pretty well with most people I meet. I know I can have a rewarding relationship with someone...the problem is like you said in your second paragraph, your start to learn of other traits after the fact, when there's an emotional investment in play and naturally you keep chugging along because if the relationship isn't broke, why fix it? I guess I have to start looking in better places, and just keep plugging away at myself.

I don't really understand where you're coming from on this.

The problem with what you're saying is those girls are still gonna fuck other men. If I had said no to her at that moment in time when she wanted me, I'd wager my next paycheck that she still would have fucked some other guy that night. Ultimately, at the end of the day, it's her decision whether or not she wants to fuck you, not the guy's...even though men would willingly take sex 24/7. I can never understand for the life of me that when a woman cheats on her bf/husband with another man, the guy feels the need to beat up the other guy who fucked her. Sure, you can argue that men fucking a taken woman is morally wrong, but these men didn't make the commitment not to screw anyone else, the wife/gf made that commitment...voluntarily I may add.

You may have moral standards, and I respect that, but I think it's a little much that your standards are being imposed upon the party to an act that did not volunteer to commit a moral outrage, let alone someone who didn't even know she was taken, when the other party had a clear desire to do so. JMO.

At the end of the day, if a girl wants to cheat, she's gonna cheat. There's nothing that you can do to stop it. At all

Everyone has moral "standards" whether they appear to impose them or not. You not caring if a girl or guy cheats is a "moral" believe it or not. Since you knew she was taken you showed that is your "moral." And you CHOSE to take part in that act not involuntarily. So according to your own moral people could and should be expected to do the same with you and it's fine. Basically YOU uphold that moral by taking part in it so what is the problem? You're getting what you want or at the least believe in and SUPPORT when someone cheats on you. You speak general of generalities like saying all men would have sex 24/7 etc which just shows you let THE STATUS QUO and what the average person believes true to create your reality. So what you did was right because according to your FLAWED logic every guy would do so why not you. Well keep doing what your doing and reap the karma you deserve. I don't care either way, BUT I think it's funny and interesting when people have karma knock them down and they don't realize they've been doing the same thing and DESERVE whatever they got though sometimes the karma is often FAR worse then what they did. If karma does or doesn't exist, it's ironic and interesting when it's clear cut as in this case