From NEO

This perfectly makes my point. I mean no disrespect but let's look at facts. You pulled a chick from a guy. She's now your gf. You play games for lack of a better term with her. But now you are the one that she lies to and you have to wonder if she is going to meet her ex in a recent thread. Not trying to bash you or call you out but logically this is what I've been saying. You screened for a girl who likes games. Now she plays games with you. Now you don't know whether to trust her because you use this form of communication. Wouldn't that teach you that maybe playing games in a rs or getting into relationships with girls who play games is not a good thing?


^^^This is not the reason for my relationships current issues.^^^

**My GF has lied to me about little things because she is insecure, has anxiety issues, and doesnt like to say no to anyone. This I screened this first 20 minutes I met her, but I have been able to look past these things (for a large majority). The only reason I posted that thread was to get another opinion.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I guess I see both sides of the coin (as I have stated before) but was just making an argument for freezing out because it is something iv done and to spice up this post a little. I am naturally the type that goes against the grain nothing personal, you all make some very good points for not freezing out and I agree with what you are saying. I just think freezing out can work in some situations as well.

No Hard Feelings!

I appreciate your opinions and taking the time to help assess my current relationship. Thats why im here. To see others opinions/relationships and make mine the best it can be.

A "Freeze-out" aka a take-away, is just that. If the guy wasn't needy to begin with, a freeze-out wouldn't be necessary. This has everything to do with being one's own person. A confident person doesn't sit there and think about "should I call her now, or tomorrow, or a few days from now?"..."oh no I better pull back, I'm contacting her too much...that's beta". All withdrawing your attention does is ramp-up anxiety in the relationship.

Confidence is one of the most attractive qualities in a man for women. Acting one way one moment (e.g., being intimate), and then flighty the next (e.g. "Freezing-out") makes you look unstable. To be clear, unstable and unpredictable are not mutually exclusive. One can be unpredictable and 'mysterious' while also coming across as stable and very grounded. Freeze-Outs are for the guy who overextends himself and puts her needs before his own - the eager beaver, the guy who operates from a scarcity mentality. The thing is, you'll never live out of an abundance frame UNTIL you learn to love yourself; something which a lot of the guys on here clearly do not understand how to go about doing.

No problem. But arent you more doubtful knowing how you got her and the fact that she has lied to you especially about an ex? I mean, there's a line between screening and just avoiding realism. That fact was left out of the other thread, and it would be safe to say what the advice would have been then. See why honest communication is better than hiding? You couldve gotten better advice for your situation instead of brushing off what most would agree is a high risk/bad situation.

I dont know why being direct is equated with lack of confidence and "niceness" for some reason. Please guys, think instead of saying the whole PU alpha male thing. If you have a problem in your life, and it breaks you down so that talking about with your girl causes her to dump you or lose interest someway...then you're a weak individual in the first place. This freeze out thing is just a way for guys to not let the girl know that they're weak. And my advice, is to make sure you're not weak in the first place, instead of hiding behind any tactic. I'm a fan of outer game, just not in relationships. Your inner game is what makes or breaks it. You can only pretend for so long. You can use jealousy, but if you're lame, doesnt matter if she thinks supermodels are trying to fuck you, she'll leave because you're lame. And you can NOT use jealousy, be fun, and she doesnt have to think anyone is trying to actively fuck you, she will know and feel that you can get women easily. Please think deeper. If communicating causes you to lose a girl, put your ego aside and assess why she really left. There were holes elsewhere. If communicating makes her think you're needy...guess what...you were way needy before. If comm makes her think you're a pussy...you were a pussy before. A freeze out, and tactics like these in a relationship are just bandages to hide real problems with who you are. You're crying at home about a bad grade, you keep that a secret...instead of getting to the point where you're emotionally stable. Being open, doesnt mean you arent cocky. And it doesnt mean you're predictable. It doesnt mean you dont fuck her good. And to the argument that "well its how women communicate..." we ARENT women. If its effective to communicate like a woman, lets do high pitched voices and complain to our gfs. Shouldnt we then, be men and do direct conversation? Or should we communicate like women?

I've been there. Alot of these PU theories, make sense until you dig deeper. Until you think deeper. Communicate as women do? Be old school and freeze out...when old school men were direct? Did your granfather come up, your grandma disrespected him, and he disappeared for a few days? Or did he call the shit on and "LAY DOWN THE LAW."

Push pull, emotions of roller coasters? Bro get your ass in the pick up forum, this is the relationship forum. You don't "game" your girlfriend. You're honest and open with her. If you have to do all those tactics to keep a girl you need to next her, as the stress level of maintaining that relationship will be extremely high.

Trust me, I did it with my girl for awhile and I was stressed the fuark out.

Now I'm communicating, and wow... I'm genuinely really happy with where we are at. Stress is nearly non-existant, where as before it was at a constant 6-8 out of 10.

Ahhh.. Life is good. Effortless love. Relaxed. I got cruise control on in this bitch and there will be no sudden stops/jerks anytime soon. I'm stable, my nigga!

FYI, girls don't want all that rollercoaster of emotions in a LTR. You're a man, so you should act like a rock... not like another women.

I wholeheartedly agree. Unfortunately, here, you're preaching to the choir.

I'll even take it one step further in saying that HEALTHY minded women DO NOT like emotional roller coasters of any sort. In fact, for the more mature women, that is one of the biggest turn-offs. Girls who like the "emotional roller coaster" are generally damaged, and I'd steer WAY clear of. Those are the same girls who create drama in relationships. They are used to drama in their own lives, and "bore" of a stable guy because the reality is these women are damaged and if they aren't being treated poorly by a male figure, they are out of their element and uncomfortable.

Going by N2's reasoning, the BILLIONS of women who vicariously enjoy emotional roller coasters day-to-day in romance novels, literotica like 50 Shades of Grey, soap operas and Oprah are mentally and emotionally damaged.

Now, on to the topic...

Communication in relationships is not black and white verbal nor 100 percent purely nonverbal. There' s a delicate balance between verbal and nonverbal.

Likewise, relationship disputes have different gradients of gravity. Some posters rooting for the 100 percent verbal solution in supposed disputes are not disputes at all.

I'll explain this later after finishing two school projects.

_________________
Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html

Thank you all for this information. it has given me a new perspective and understanding of LTRs. If I could go back I would have done a lot of things differently. But this is how you learn isnt it? Trying something, seeing a different perspective, then trying something different and seeing how it works? -- Thanks all. Duke

There's a marked difference between escaping in whirl wind romance, or sexual adventure with someone mysterious and somebody being erratic, using creepy strategies to lower another's self-esteem, and being hell-bent on maintaining 'power'.

Honestly, I'd be shocked beyond belief to find out if you've had a single relationship your entire life.

I will agree, however, that communication ins't 100% verbal, in fact most of it is non-verbal and suggestive.

For sure. You've got to find your own path, another person can't impart their experience on you.

Definitely bro. Go out and learn from experience. You will fuck up, but as long as you learn from those fuck ups then you're gold.

Emotional roller coasters in relationships do exist, are fairly common and are universal. And this is not just my say so or experiences from several relationships.

Foremost authority on love, Helen Fisher has in fact defined the different stages in human love relationships which start with the emotional roller coasters (Early-Stage Intense Romantic Love) and then gradually progress toward a more emotionally stable and predictable relationship, then boredom sets in and the cycle begins all over again. The need for emotional roller coasters are firmly ingrained in the human brain (whereas women empirically need it more than men). According to Fisher's MRI scans of the human brain, the very volatile ups and downs of cocaine addiction magnetic resonance imaging patterns in the human brain are very similar to the magnetic resonance imaging patterns in the brain of people in love.

http://www.helenfisher.com/downloads/ar ... mpNeur.pdf

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/a ... -1,00.html

This is NOT something new. This is a scientific fact that has already been established for about a decade. Emotional roller coasters are what make relationships healthy and happy so relationships will progress into a more stable, mature form.

To get to point Z from point X, you'll have to go through point Y.

@Neo: Ludwig Wittgenstein knew way back before 1953 that humans communicated differently according to the target audience.

Carpenter to carpenter communication is different compared with engineer to carpenter communication and carpenter to client communication. Likewise, man-to-man communication is different with man-to-woman communication. You cannot apply the communication protocols of man-to-man communication with women because that type of communication will NOT be effective.

What works for women is man-to-woman communication which includes both the verbal and nonverbal aspects but has more nonverbals compared with man-to-man communication.

Communication Scenarios with Women

No Dispute with a Submissive Woman

Man: Babe, I'm hungry. [Verbal statement communicating what you need in the relationship]
Woman: I've made a nice hot meal for you. Sit down and let me take care of you.

Dispute with a Dominant, Verbally Abusive Woman

Man: Babe, I'm hungry. [Verbal statement communicating what you need in the relationship]
Woman: Shut up. You mentally stunted, anachronistic misogynist! Can't you see I'm watching Oprah? Are you on drugs?

No Dispute with a Dominant, Civil Woman

Man: Babe, I'm hungry. [Verbal statement communicating what you need in the relationship]
Woman: So sorry babe. I'm working on my homework right now. Can you fix both of us some dinner instead?

I will discuss how I actually handle such scenarios with women I have (and had) relationships with except for the abusive woman scenario which I still have to experience. For the abusive woman scenario, I will provide a theoretical reaction which does NOT necessarily involve a freeze out. For the Dominant, Civil Woman Scenario I typically do a takeaway nowadays; will explain how and why.

To be continued...

_________________
Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html

Hh, why do emotional rollercoasters equal freeze outs? You can talk to your gf differently that your guy friends. You can flirt, be cocky, tease, use sexual eye contact, touch all those things. But for me, if I have a problem with something she did, I tell her. If I'm confused about something I ask. Leads to less confusion on my behalf. Ironically, being direct is the killer to neediness. If I'm not afraid to lose her by saying something, she's not gonna pick up a needy vibe. It leads to less misunderstandings. If I freeze out, she'll freeze me out. Neither of us is learning. You can treat her like a child or a woman any day of the week, but when something genuinely serious is up, speak it.

I'll give an example? Why do we kiss a girl after a first date? Most say, because if you don't, you risk friendzone or her not seeing the date as a man to woman thing. One day I thought about the implications behind that thought. If I have to kiss a girl after a first date for her to not friendzone me, then I'm not communicating as a man to woman in my dates. So my kiss at the end was just a bandage for lacking man to woman communication. I stopped first date kissing or escalation even though I was solid for a while to make sure my communication alone on the date would prevent friendzoning and get second dates. Could I actually not escalate and still have her view me in a sexual way? So I did, I would not kiss on my first dates so my sexual vibe regardless would be so masculine that I wont get friendzoned. And once I played with it, my communication during dates was so solid, that I didnt need to kiss or even be physical to get a second or keep her sexually attracted. After I did that for a while, I didnt need to kiss or go for sex on first dates. This is how I view freeze outs. There a tool to create an emotional rollercoaster, because without them things aren't exciting enough.

Emotional Roller Coasters do NOT = Freeze Outs Neo.

That's just a side topic in which I wanted to emphasize that emotional roller coasters are essential in any happy and healthy romantic relationships as N2 is suggesting that women who love emotional roller coasters are damaged.

_________________
Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html

A story popped into my head from a while ago ago that I think speaks to not being afraid to tell a girl you're feelings. One day, my gfs dog got really sick so we took her to the vets. Think the dog had vertigo disease or something because it stopped being able to stand up and would fall over all the time. It was a big black lab. So we're at the vets and I'm holding the dog down and petting her to calm her down because she was going crazy. This was a new relationship and the first time I'd met her dog. After a while the dog calmed down and was licking my face while the vet checked her out. So I'm holding the dog and we're petting her, and I tell my gf "You know....I'm secretly really afraid of big dogs" She asks why, I tell her where I'm from dogs are really viscious. She asks how are you so relaxed now. I explain to her, well I'm kinda afraid to be honest, but I'm not gonna let the fear keep me from doing what I need to do. That night she ripped my clothes off.

My point is, whatever you're worried about or afraid of, or sad about, dont let it keep you back. Girls dont dislike when a guy says something's bothering him, they dislike when you sound like you're being held back by fear or sadness. If something is bothering you, or making you sad, make sure you have a plan to fix your problem before bringing it to your girl. Girls don't get disinterested from you saying how you feel, they get disinterested from you sounded helpless. You can tell a girl "Im worried about my job laying me off" and thats just complaining. Or you can tell her "I'm worried about my job..BUT I'm sending out new job applications out so I have options if shit goes sideways." If you can show a girl that you may be sad about something, but it wont defeat you and you're taking actions, it can be more powerful than just keeping quiet.

I think this TED talk by Brene Brown on the Power of Vulnerability may speak to a lot of you guys:


http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on ... anguage=en

NEVER let anyone tell you that being vulnerable is a sign of weakness. It is actually quite the contrary. People who preach this belief that showing vulnerability = weakness are completely out-of-touch with themselves and will never truly experience deep meaningful relationships with other people. After all, how could they seeing as they aren't even connected to themselves.

ANY woman who shames you for being vulnerable is DAMAGED and NOT WORTH BEING AROUND. You need to next her not tomorrow, but LIKE YESTERDAY!

Sharing your vulnerability will actually connect you more to your partner, and result in a deeper love between the two of you.