You still have not mentioned your age. She got married meaning she said "I do" and said "in sickness and poor health." Bails because of a "porn addiction." Likely, she was not working out, likely she was not fulfilling his desires and needs. Clearly, she did not keep her word cause she left. See, this is not what I am seeing. I am seeing women suddenly become desperate for marriage, for children, and men are disposable. The Link broke or is not working but, you may google it.Quebec man court ordered to pay for 3/4 children despite DNA evidence proving 1) they are not his and 2) she is a hoe.

Thosewho say, "cannot say that" are pushing censorship but, the problem is that, more and more men are raising children that are not his. Its pretty fucked up. The issue amongst genders is so prevalent today it is sickening but, women are taught that, they can do no wrong. They can run up a financial monstrosity of debt and some schmuck will clean up her mess. This is why men may date someone in their late twenties or early thirties who has never evolved and matured into a woman. She will still be lacking developmental character traits you normally develop. Society is setup to provide a safety net in the event they cannot support themselves. The narrative is still, "you don't need a man" and "I am a independent woman" yet, how few are actually in that driver seat? Probably more now then ever before yet, the actual amount with good mental health, fitness, income, debt free, ambitious, won the genetic lottery, works out etc. is miniscule at best.
6s males are not getting the same attention as a female 6. What we have is, women swimming in a dating pool much larger then her attractiveness should allow. What follows is a woman riding the cock carousel until her looks and physical form wain. Now, she wants to settle down, start a family, get married, and a man is disposable. This is why we have sexodus. As I stated above, likely, these men have a avoidant attachment style starting from early childhood. Factors begin with parenting but, they also include personal experience and a variety of others. If they spent their life being rejected by women, this would only amplify their being avoidant, and here we have sexodus or exodus.

For us, we date, we do PU, we experience interactions, and we do not take rejection or blowouts to heart. Most of us are likely anxious in attachment theory or possibly avoidant. I suspect some are secure although, those are usually the ones in long term relationships most often. The studies suggest that secures can have relations with both avoidant and anxious people. Secures make up 50% of the dating pool, 25% avoidant and 25% anxious. Now imagine, someone anxious dating someone else avoidant?
She made the pass immediately after talking about wanting kids like right now. This created anxiety for me. I was content to fool around a bit but, I was not going to have sex with her and we rarely talk anymore. I was completely disinterested from that point on. If you just met a girl through PU who states, "I want children." She follows up with "I am X years old. My body is telling me to start having children," would this not send off bells and whistles in your mind? I did not have a condom on me (I don't carry them in my wallet). I was not going to take one from her. Long story short, it was a experience I took as far as I wanted to and forgot about shortly after. If a woman said she wants children one day and to get married one day, that is fine but, first hangout? We were suppose to go to a cafe and she suggested going back to her place for a movie. A Christmas Story was on but, we watched none of it
Many links I posted are feminism accusing PU as rape culture. Men want to get laid. Instead of PU being readily available and on every counter at a convenience store, we have cosmo magazine for females, and nothing for the men. The many articles that talk about dating are some factual science geek in a lab jacket but, very few to no quality information.

To answer your question; some men are adapting, and becoming better. PU for me has helped increase opportunities for me. There are many others who have improved in their dating life and now have choices. Others in PU are capitalizing on a niche market in order to exploit the socially awkward and inept. I think most guys in PU are awkward and lacking social equity and therefore, easily susceptible to exploitation. We saw the recent day game sham. I suspect more will be outed over the years. Not much has changed in regards to passive and dating roles but, the access has improved and regardless of Jeffy Allan's program, women do better at online dating. Passive dating role is typically what women resort too. I believe I mentioned all of the above women throughout the holiday having online dated at one time or another.

To the first point about my divorced friend, it's exactly the opposite. She has always been into fitness and remained so during marriage. She's one of those crossfit chicks. Her body is amazing. She has a very good career but is one of those please her man types so she was sleeping with him regularly. And no, she didn't bail on him, she went to therapy with him for years and fought for the relationship for about 3 years I think. Eventually the guy became abusive physically and after a couple of incidents like this they filed for divorce. I have repeatedly joked with her that she is a ride or die chick because that's what she did. She did get a house in the divorce, but that's because the guy gave it to her during the divorce after all she had been through. In total they were together around 12 years, dating for around 3.

I don't agree. Before DNA testing(which is only about 30 years old), men almost always supported other men's children. It's not like affairs were invented in the 90s.
I would say now, men are supporting the lowest number of children who are not theirs, in the history of civilization.
This is an MRA fantasy, that is not based on general truths. Yes, there are some women like this. They are also a minority. A small minority.

And it's honestly much less true of 6s and much more true of 4s. One of the main reasons being, the 4 struggles to find a decent boyfriend. She can get fucked by nice looking, relatively popular 7s. But can't net any boyfriend much above herself looks or status wise. So she bangs piles of dudes who are out of her league, because she likes that better than the alternative.

Then she goes ahead and settles for some guy she doesn't really want, because she sort of likes him, and she needs a second income and an extra set of grandparents for the children she wants to raise.

These are not attractive women. Attractive women are always selective in choosing a husband. Because an attractive woman always has options. Even if she's literally a crazy bitch.

_________________
RSDTyler

6 males have never gotten anywhere the same attention as 6 females. Heck, a 5 female gets more attention than a 10 male. This is how it's always been. Yes, a 6 today may get more attention from 8's (males) online, but this is mostly "come to my place." They still don't have the option to date more attractive men, on a consistent basis. I've only found this cock carousel thing to be true for the slutty party girl types. It's a fantasy that women ride this cock carousel and then try to trap a man once it's over. Most girls get into relationships, and they end.

Yeah, I was gonna make V's point but I see he made it. Dudes have always been raising other men's kids. It's fucked up, but has been happening for centuries.
This is what I see. In fact, I'd say 4's typically don't keep banging the popular 7's, because after a few it makes them feel badly. Guys never taking them out in public, having them drive to his place at 2:00am, getting kicked out after sex, this is how a 4 banging a 7 is treated. So once she realizes that 7's treat her badly, she settles. There is SOME settling by women, but men settle too. People learn what they like in a relationship as they grow older. So the guy who dates party chicks in his college years and learns that they're mostly immature, may choose a reserved chick in his 30's for marriage. It could be seen as settling, or it could be his perspective has changed. Same for women.

Well, I used KK as an example of a typical woman today. Exploit her sex appeal, sloot it up, and then, get married. I have no doubt she will take Kanye to the cleaners at some point. As with your 10 male, I would have to disagree. Lets assume a 10 male models. The saying 90% of women are sleeping with 10% of men would seem to be true. I have seen what a inbox for a 10 male looks like. I recall seeing the Zyzz fb messages on 4chan and other sites. Attractive men will get attention but, from a passive role in dating like online, it is tailored for women. Its only natural it would work best for their dating style. The confusion is the pressures of equality, pushing gender neutrality, and then, having a lack of follow through when everything else fails.

The link I posted above is an example of hating male gaze only to wish you got it once age kicks in. I am not going to say all women try to trap men but, they do try to lock down Mr Beta Male with resources once the psychos, the sociopaths, the assholes, and douche bags stop returning her calls. Once all her friends get married and are settling down with children, its suddenly about a different perspective. They choose these betas, the men who do not get any female attention, and similar to what Chris Rock stated in his comedy, "you were her second choice (if that)." Not doing PU is a detriment. The alternatives are not pretty.
KK is attractive but, she is not wifey material. Any woman who puts out a sex tape for money also known as prostitution is a whore for hire. The problem now a days is that, men are marrying whores, settling down, and then, getting court ordered to pay for children that DNA proves is not their own.
What age range are you in? Early 20s? teens? mid 20s? 30s? I am in my mid 20s. I am seeing women who have been attractive and have hit the wall. The past life, the party life, the cock carousel lifestyle was what they want but, now they feel bad cause nobody wants them. They had been given all the opportunities in the world to settle down, to find a good man, and be happy. Tyler has a video called, "what I would do to lock down a man" on youtube. Its a little rough reality cause, women do not get called on their shit very often so, it does not aid in positive development. I think sexodous is a very passive aggressive way of handling what they feel is a silly cycle. Nobody here commenting has been through a divorce. God forbid that fate were to fall on any of us. I notice many of those men turn into curmudgeons and hate women afterward.

Yes, and I think this is generally true. As I said, it's a small minority of women who do what he describes. I really couldn't guess exactly how common, but some do. And it seems worse in some areas than others.

But I absolutely have heard of pudgy girls in their mid-20s deliberately attempting to get pregnant by their their nice looking fuck buddy(who usually has a fairly good job) to lock him down.

I can't say I know anyone personally who experienced this, but I've seen enough anecdotes to make me think it does happen at times.

_________________
RSDTyler

Maybe there are better areas to do PU in lol

How long did these men engage your friend before she decided to travel and see them? I've been thinking of only messaging wealthy women who live in different states or internationally, but I don't want to spend 6 weeks emailing back and forth.

At most my message chain has about 4-5 messages from me, and if I can't get them offline by then I become suspicious and stop responding to the girls.

I've read some statistics online that say 1 in 5 adults you meet were raised by a father who really isn't his own. This figure doesn't include guys who are knowingly doing this. The women cheated had a kid and allowed the husband to think he was raising his own child. That's insane.

I have a theory on why women behave in more evil ways by default as a gender more than men. It's in my field report, just skim through it until you see the ying yang picture.

Joe, maybe you should learn some social circle game (the most powerful form of PU I'm aware of, Adam Lyons) and form a cult rallying the sexodus/mgtow guys to combat feminism? You can call it MTTPB
men Taking the power back!

Then return us to the 1920's

_________________
I am a hunter of human excellence. I seek out those individuals who break the norms
and demonstrate to all of us what’s really possible. I learn what those few
extraordinary individuals do that’s different from everybody else, and then emulate
them.

I've read that Secret Society stuff years ago about the 10% but is it true? "Beta" dudes get laid. Beta dudes get into relationships. The world isn't just this 10% of guys having sex.

As to women vs men, no doubt Zyzz or whoever gets propositions. But no where near what an average girl gets. As you said, passive dating role, it's just more tailored to them being on the receiving end. If you made a profile of a male model and one of a 5, the 5 would get more messages. Even at the bar, a 10 guy gets approached less than the 5 girl.

And KK has options. She didn't settle down with a broke dude. She's gone from basketball millionaires to Kanye who is a millionaire himself. When you look at it realistically, she had sex with her bf years ago on camera and people saw the tape. She hasn't been known to be a cheater. She's dated a couple millionaires and is now married. So the girl who had a sex tape and abt 3 public relationships, has millions now is not wife material. And the woman who has no resources and rides the cock carousel isn't wife material as well.

It just seems like these "beta" guys you describe are just complaining. When they don't have a woman, they complain. When a woman likes them, they complain that he is her second choice. For an analogy, let's say I just dropped out of high school and played video games all day. Never improved myself. Then I get a cushy job offer from my uncle. Is it right for me to then complain that I'm getting a better job than I deserve?

As my name says I was born in 87. It's not that women are not wanting to settle down, they just haven't been able to if they're in their 30's and 40's and single. It's extremely rare to meet a woman who just went about her life passing up opportunities to settle down in her 20's. As someone else said, the world has conflicting messages so the change isn't that grand as you may think. Sex in the City was a show about girl power, women sleeping with different dudes, but they were all excited about getting married at the end of the day. Beyonce sings single ladies, and then put a ring on it, while being married herself. Even movies like Legally Blonde, still end with the girl finding the guy. The things you may see online or in magazines are seldom what is really going on when you look at real life. It's not that women dont want to settle down, now, its moreso that they CAN'T or it's harder to do so. The cock carousel, completely career driven woman is a rarity, not the norm today. The girl who is desperate to settle down in her 30's was most likely trying to settle down in her 20's. It just didnt work out that way.

I think on average a couple weeks to a month. And they would facetime a bit before hand. I think it would be different in your case, because these are men who are ready to settle down, hence she can invest money in meeting a potential husband. I don't know if it would be this straightforward for a casual relationship if thats what your looking for. Also, she is Morman, so she dates on Morman dating sites. This means that the men she meets aren't looking to get laid before marriage. I'd figure other dating sites like Pof would create more doubt as to your intentions long term, making it tougher to get a woman to fly out to you.

I've always significantly doubted the whole, "Only 10 or 20% of men are having all the (casual/novel partner) sex".

It seemed like a statement designed to hook younger (18-22 year old) virgins/low sex count. Probably ones at big American universities.

I would suspect there is a skewed gender ratio - but I'd estimate it as 40% of men getting about 70% of sex. Possibly even better than that.

I think a lot of this thinking is skewed by the environment that a lot of those kids are in - to a socially shy freshman kid, it must seem like all of the (pretty) girls are dating athletes and frat brothers.

I think part of it is also the top %20 of men getting %80 of the attractive(7+) women in casual hookups. I would say that's not too far off from reality. The bottom %50 of men may never even sleep with a single 7 in his entire life.
I don't think the idea is that the top %20 are having %80 of total sex. Just %80 of highly desirable female partners. Which in fairness is what, %25-30 of college girls? I think the numbers are true. If not somewhat understated.
Yeah, somebody is banging porky Betty, but who the hell cares, lol.

What that is saying, is that the top %20 of men, are banging 4/5s of the top %30 of women. That seems right to me. As I said, if anything, it seems understated. Even if it includes 6s, we're looking at %20 banging 4/5s the top %40-45. Seems about right.

%80 of 42 is 34. Colleges skew about 60:40 female. Which is %50 dominance. He's out performing his representation by less than %20. That seems completely fair.

_________________
RSDTyler

What do you guys think about the Adam Lyons divorce thing (also in the lounge)? Related to sexodus and men settling

I am not a economist nor a stats guy. According to numbers, lets say 10%. Lets classify Zyzz or internet troll YaBoyDave in this category of men who get laid. There are far more geeks, nerds, sexodus or avoidant males then men who are getting all the vagina. I met a guy from my gym who I have started to wing with and I have seen a lot from him. He does local competitions and fitness models in a physique class. The man has told me to get on tinder and other dating sites. He says how easy it is. Then, he shows me the responses he gets from women. Its pretty much simple lays from 7s and up. I actually did some PU and met a girl who said she "dated" a fitness model. Sure enough, she brought up the alias he uses. I said, "nice to meet you" then did more PU.

That whole 10% of men getting 90% of women goes back to that crap. Zyzz who knows nothing about PU takes steroids, does a bunch of drugs (cocaine, M, steroids, etc), shows up to music fests and gets laid. Several messages from social media exist of the propositioning he gets. Sexodus men are turned off cause, at best, they are getting the last of the last after the unattractive women are older, and even further past their prime. No doubt. The actual statistics are irrelevant but, the fact of the matter being, the 10% of Zyzzs and fitness physique models of the world are the ones pulling all the vagina. Genetic predisposition trumps everything. Sexodus is men just giving up. Quite honestly, I do not understand it now or ever. Even the most unattractive man can succeed if he was not avoidant and would not give up.
No doubt cause man has not evolved. 500BC nobody wanted to be around the prostitutes, whores, and hoes. Today, women put out sex tapes to get into the spotlight and some chump marries them. Yes, she has options which is a poor reflection on ignorance in men. It further suggests that, these women fail to develop character, qualities, and the right to be a wife. It is just taken as a given that some schmuck will marry her and they would be right most times. They are not great cooks, nurturing women that would make great mothers but rather, entitled women, many of whom settled for men not what they ever wanted, and scorned because the gaze has left forever. She could have found a man she would be happy with but, "i like bad boys" is what she argues. Many of these women have never developed into womanhood. They are mostly immature preteens.

I recently finished "attached" a book I brought up which discusses developmental attachment theory. It also goes onto argue that these attachments carry on into adulthood. Women continue to watch romance movies where the movie ends with getting married. This is only the beginning and when you get there, the credits do not roll nor do you live happily ever after. This is the narrative that continues to sell in Hollywood as does being "mr nice guy" or emotional tampon. This is because society wants some simple truth so, people continue to get fed more bullshit boot first.
The simple answer would be no. The truth is that, women do exactly just that the majority of their life. Sit back and get laid. No active gym membership, fast food, alcohol, and random casual sex with men. Its okay because someone will still date her. Swipe visa card and take out student loans for some ridiculous make up career. Who cares? Some jackass will marry her and pay for everything. Preach independence, wait for free dinners, drinks, and seek out traditionalism.
Exactly. Its more societal narrative; simple truths for simple minds. Sex and the city is an example of the trend in today's world. Ride the cock carousel until the freebies stop coming, when her friends are all married, having children or engaged, and now, she wants to sing a different tune. "I am not like that." As a man, I do not want to settle down with a woman in her 30s or 40s when she got it all out of her system, wants to start a family, wants to slow down, and pretend to be a good girl.

The hollywood happily ever after narrative always ends with marriage; give the women what they want. Shame him into settling down. Being born in 86, I cannot speak for you or your experiences. I can say, with age, I have done better, and I can attribute it to game improving but, I like more like a man as I have aged. I don't look like a boy anymore. Women from late teens or early twenties are very responsive. I am not saying I get them all as it does not work that way. I am noticing it more and more. I like it. Unfortunately, these men of sexodus are not having anything or zero luck with women. If they are in fact avoidant, it is no surprise they are responding with extreme measures to check out of society completely.

Either or. My point was not to become a stat but point out the fact that, what a woman deems as being attractive is usually attractive and sex worthy to the next girl.
Exactly. Now, we have Sexodus, men who likely are not getting laid ever or are risking all of their resources with women who they know damn well do not care for them. It is the Zyzz like characters that are getting all the pussy. Sure enough, they get a bunch of haters and angry trolls too who bash online. It is common occurrence. Regardless of the % the fact remains, these men are in fact getting most if not just about all the vagina. If Zyzz had his own boot camp, there would be kids signing up in single file.

I think it is as you say, understated. If you own out say your own house, you drive a high end BMW or Mercedes, you have a fair bit of resources, a wealthy business, several other side projects, and a woman who no longer is getting "the gaze" from men wants to marry you, likely, you wont be jumping for joy.
Nicely said.