Ride that keyboard.

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first, i would never tell a girl "i won't waste your time." who says that?

and let's get something straight: if OP wants to next the girl, then by all means he should next her. but that's not what OP is asking. OP is asking how should i play this in order to keep things good between him and her. specifically. and the difference between your advice and my advice is that your advice simply says "don't be afraid to lose her" and my advice says "here's how you can possibly keep her."

so again, for all your alleged experience, you are simply telling OP what will more likely than not lose him the girl. and the problem i have with that is, unlike every other dude around here it seems, i actually believe some women are better than other women. much better. and that if you have a chance with a quality woman, you shouldn't fuck it up by rushing things on your end. and if you do, you should try right the ship. because if it doesn't work, there's always, always, always, always your way of doing things. but if it does work, you get yourself a quality girl and save yourself the hassle of having to wait around for another quality girl and doing this whole process over again.

again, what did the girl do wrong here? nothing. this isn't a situation where the girl is hitting on other guys or some bullshit like that. OP just rushed things it seems.

you appear to consistently blur the line between the attraction stage and the relationship stage. all of this serious, tell-her-how i-feel bullshit is inappropriate in the initial stages of a relationship. ask anybody who knows what the fuck he's doing. it's a buzzkill. if you don't know that, you don't really have as much experience as you're putting on. sure, you come out with the right frame, your inner game is unharmed... but there's that glaring issue that you're not getting the girl, which is correct me if i'm wrong the whole point.

there's a time for talking things out and being transparent and communicating exactly how you feel... and guess what jack and neo, IT'S NOT THREE FUCKING WEEKS INTO A RELATIONSHIP...

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You must be overconfident and cocksure, even if you haven't got a god damn thing in the world going for you. And you must fail with women until you do not fear the possibility of failure, whereupon you will succeed wildly.

and another annoying thing is that if you were really following your b.s. yoda-isms, you'd walk up to a hot chick on the street, whip it out, and tell her to get to work.

that's what all of us want to do jack. guess what? doesn't fucking work. but somehow you and neo going through all the same hoops the rest of us go through is not playing games, because while you're going through the hoops (playing the game), you're simultaneously deluding yourself by repeating some fucking mantra about how you're doing what you want. lol spare me that brothers.


your entire "always do what you want" spiel is utter hypocrisy if you so much as engage in a conversation with a woman you'd rather just fuck right there. there are rules of attraction. you will fail if you just do what you want all the time. in relationships. in life. you obviously know this and abide by it. so please do not go around advising people otherwise.

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You must be overconfident and cocksure, even if you haven't got a god damn thing in the world going for you. And you must fail with women until you do not fear the possibility of failure, whereupon you will succeed wildly.

Your advice was based on there being another guy. You told him to back off when you believed that there is another guy. Your advice is basically useless and it allows her decision to be for the other guy. So while he's sitting there hoping that she'll come around to him, she'll lose any emotional feelings because of his absence and the presence of the other guy. Then OP feels worse because you've given him false hope that he can fix it with useless advice. I don't get how you can't grasp that. Yeah...it is odd that not one person has jumped in and said that your advice was better or even had the chance of working and no one other than you is saying that I'm giving bullshit advice in 300+ views. Should make you think a little bit, right? I haven't blurred any lines. The thing is that you are blurring "how-I-feel bullshit" with accepting and not accepting situations that you don't want. That is worse than moving too fast. You can move too fast and lose the girl...it happens. But being in a relationship and the rules of that relationship being dictated to you is far worse if you don't like those rules. My opinion is that he wanted something different than she did and if she got her way, she'd be happy but he wouldn't. He'd be the submissive and she'd eventually leave him high and dry. That's prolonged misery and it's harder to recover from. That's a harder lesson to learn than slow down, but it's way more important.Blurring lines again.

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Lol Chantos I'm confused. You assumed there was another guy and gave tips to combat that. How are you getting a quality girl from that? So a girl that tells you to slow it down so she can date another guy is quality? Also, a girl you would fuck and kick out and that actually works to get her back is quality? So fuck her, kick her out your place, she will come running to you because she is quality? Quality girls by your definition sound more low self esteem than quality.

yes i do believe there's another guy. makes no sense for things to be going well, then they get some space, and suddenly she's saying we gotta slow down and not responding to his invites. either it's another guy or OP has made some serious mistake demonstrating neediness or controlling behavior, which i don't think he has.

now when she makes that declaration, both you and neo say to ask her and clarify what she means by "slow down." i would not do that. it opens the door to a negative, frame-destroying response. again, if they're dating for 2 years things are different. 3 weeks in, you don't want to have a serious talk like this, especially from a position of her defining what "slow it down" means, i.e. her instructing you, her the teacher, you the student.

and he does not just sit there twiddling his thumbs while another guy bangs the girl he's after. he goes and games other girls and demonstrates high value and non-needy behavior. who knows maybe he finds a better girl that day. the difference between what i'm offering and what you're offering is that my way casts a wider net. you don't just sacrifice the girl and the sex and move on.

he's already fucked her well enough, we both agree he has a hook in. so why on earth wouldn't you be advising OP to freeze her out, create an absence, potentially get her missing his d and whatnot? is there seriously a better way? is he supposed to *keep* annoying her and moving too fast? why wouldn't he start making her contact him, chase him? you act like you have this magical other way up your sleeve. if so, please tell OP... it's the whole reason he's here mind you.
again, your advice is going to have OP back here in a month, wondering why the next girl he got with suddenly wants to slow things down. if he just took your first response and left, he'd have no clue why she was saying that. instead of saying something like "let her tell you she likes you first," which literally makes all the difference in the world, you leave OP hanging in the clouds, with a vague impression that he should somehow do what he wants. does that mean he should move too fast every time? according to you, yes.
the situation he doesn't want is the situation where the girl even says "i want to slow down" to begin with. he put himself in that situation. now, after the fact, you're coming in and saying "do not accept a situation you don't want." whereas i'm saying "here's how you don't get into that situation to begin with. and here's how you may be able to get out of this situation."



if your advice alone is to be accepted, OP will, out of ignorance, continue to create situations he does not want, and then, following your advice, not accept them.



that's all i got. if you can't get that, we agree to disagree i guess.

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You must be overconfident and cocksure, even if you haven't got a god damn thing in the world going for you. And you must fail with women until you do not fear the possibility of failure, whereupon you will succeed wildly.

wait neo, a quality girl with options can't feel pressured into a relationship, can't like more than one guy, and can't test the waters and see which guy is better for her? i'm not saying that this girl is out fucking 10 other guys. nobody knows. she could just have feelings for her ex, who may have contacted her over the holidays.

and yes, you fuck her, kick her out, get her chasing you... are you still blue pill about how women actually are? do you think women want a guy buying them flowers, flooding their message inboxes with smilies, etc.? "quality" women go for the same guys all women go for if they can.

fucking her well + kicking her out communicates that you have options, demonstrates non-neediness, implies you can get similar or even better women easily and are therefore a high value mate that will give her strong babies to survive the veritable gauntlet that is human life. she has been wired thusly.

(and for whatever reason i guess i have to explain that "kicking her out" does not actually mean saying "get the fuck out bitch" and literally forcing her out of your place. you just don't sit there cooking breakfast for her and watching movies all day snuggled up on the couch. you are friendly, charming even. but you drop her off and move on.)

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You must be overconfident and cocksure, even if you haven't got a god damn thing in the world going for you. And you must fail with women until you do not fear the possibility of failure, whereupon you will succeed wildly.

You say keep annoying her. I never gave that advice, but it's been a theme with you. You also said that I've given a mantra of do what you want to do. I said if she doesn't want to get with his program, move on. It's just that simple. You want him to let some other dude fuck her and seem to think that while some other guy is giving her orgasms, she's going to start missing him. That's not reality.

If he moves on, he'll be in the same place that you're putting him in, with the exception that he's no longer considering this girl. And if you have any experience with women, you'd realize that there is a lot of strength by dropping the girl and moving on. You're more likely to get her wanting you back at your terms. He's said in his original post that he knew that he was saying needy things, so he's learned that lesson. What's the need in addressing it again if he knows? As he went on, he actually said that he would accept this woman because he had no other options. Bad thinking on two fronts. Bad in believing that he has no other options and bad in thinking he has to settle for what he doesn't want.

But let's be clear, he asked me this:And I've answered that question. You're still focused on the first post and you can't wrap your brain around that there's more. He's even told you that he already figured out it wasn't a good idea but he didn't know that at the time. You're trying to solve a problem with his thinking that he's already solved on his own. So good job, keep solving that problem for him.

So now you have to be thinking that Jack's advice is correct based on your own numerous comments. It was incorrect because he wasn't addressing the underlying problem. But since OP knew the underlying problem existed and has been on the right path in correcting that thinking, JackZero must know exactly what he's talking about.

Just for educational purposes: Freeze outs should be done in two different occasions. One being when you give a girl attention and she still doesn't want to meet up. And the other is when experiencing LMR with a girl.

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She's known him for 6 weeks. You make it sound like he's gonna be able to just become superman overnight. 6 weeks isn't a long time, but she's fucked him. If the sex wasn't good enough to keep her interested all those times before, it's not like the guy is gonna suddenly become a stud in bed. She's met him, dated him, slept with him. She already knows what his league is. You act like freezing her out is gonna make her go crazy for him. That's why faking game sucks for relationships. Sure, first night, first few dates you can fool her, but as time passes if the real you isn't as cool as you really are she'll know. She doesn't think, well he's ok in bed and mildly interesting, but he isn't calling me as much so he must be banging models. Models must want this guy that my 7.5 self is iffy about.

Guys are seriously too afraid to have conversations with chicks. It's like "Umm...I know we've dated for a month, I've SPAM you, asked you to be my gf, told you how much I like you, given up my free time for you...what? you say something I don't understand? I'm going to act like a completely new person like I was this secret player and hope you're so dumb not to catch on."

Jeez, just communicate. Find out where her head is at. Sure, she could be lying but talk to her in person and decide. If her ex is on her mind, decide whether you want a part of that. If she tells you something that doesn't add up, then assume she can't be trusted or is just irrational and next. If she gets turned off from you wanting to talk like an adult, then how would a relationship work anyway?

^ This is great advice, she knows where she stands with you....you however are completely clueless and talking like an adult is most certainly the answer. Sit her down without being needy and just ask the questions you have. The last serious relationship I had started somewhat this way...was dating and banging girl, she left a party with her ex while she was drunk, we weren't exclusive so I just brushed it off and when she message me later I told her "we can still be friends" and meant it. She chased me forever until we ended up dating for 2 years. Be prepared to walk away and mean it, then you have nothing to lose.

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You must be overconfident and cocksure, even if you haven't got a god damn thing in the world going for you. And you must fail with women until you do not fear the possibility of failure, whereupon you will succeed wildly.

Neo, do you think men in the 1940s talked to women the way you're suggesting? I don't. Do you think modern divorce rates are absolutely through the roof off pure coincidence? I don't. Do you think 90 percent of the men in our society avoid communicating and making sure they're on the exact same page with women? I don't. Do you think women are more turned off by a man who convincingly acts like he's a "secret player" (aka confident, cocky, mysterious, high value male) or a man who communicates to them clearly and makes sure they're on the same page? I absolutely say the latter and it's not even close. Even pretending to be a player and pretending not to give a fuck is more attractive and masculine than sitting a girl down and having her explain to you why she wants to slow things down, so that you can understand where she's coming from and then respond with a butthurt ultimatum after the fact. That's just the absolute wrong way for a man to act. And if you act that way, you need to pretend to act the other way until it sticks, because you've got some really bad habits.


Look, I don't want to derail this guy's thread any further (OP I apologize for this going on and on long after you've gotten what you needed, that's on me), but this whole "communicate and find where her head is at" vibe is the death knell of our generation's men.

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You must be overconfident and cocksure, even if you haven't got a god damn thing in the world going for you. And you must fail with women until you do not fear the possibility of failure, whereupon you will succeed wildly.

OP stopped paying attention to you by your second post on this thread. He PM'd me that day and indicated that you didn't understand what he was trying to say and thus not posting on this thread anymore. He has since then come up with a pretty good plan on his own. Once he breaks his social conditioning, this guy's going to be gold. He's far more intelligent than you have given him credit for.

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I believe that you're confusing relationship dynamics with the process of using attraction (aka the girls curiosity)into seducing a girl into bed. Hell, you may even be using booty call tactics on a girl he is trying to form a relationship with, but your advice can keep her interest if she is one of those reverse player girls.

Communication is 100% necessary to build a strong relationship. I think congruence is also important. If you fake some shit 10 times out of 10 you will be found out eventually.

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I am a hunter of human excellence. I seek out those individuals who break the norms
and demonstrate to all of us what’s really possible. I learn what those few
extraordinary individuals do that’s different from everybody else, and then emulate
them.

Lol what is your logic? So 90 percent of guys avoid communication and divorce rates are high. So you're just saying its better to communicate then... If you had said 90 percent communicate and divorce rates are high then communication is a bad thing. But you said the opposite. Jac is right, you're just throwing stuff out there and not thinking about what you're saying. Thats like me saying work out and you say obesity is higher now, 90 percent of people avoid working out, hence working out is a bad thing.