I put a lot of effort into my appearance, so the way I see it is, I'm doing double work. Plus girls can double their image with a bit of make up, no easy tricks like that for guys.
Well, that's the thing. I know that's the way it is, and I'm still putting in the effort.

Anyway I deleted the girl from BBQ but she replied to my message anyways so I asked her out for a drink. Hope she doesn't notice.

how could you misread what i said? i said the old school gurus (the guys who came up with game modern game theory as we know it. the ones who know how to get women and know their shit.) they are the ones who teach that it's never the woman's fault.
good, best thing you said in this whole thread.
again you completely misread/misunderstood the point here. also, sounds like you are racist on top of being misogynistic. again basic gaming 101. don't try to game while drunk. it's the first thing they teach.

conclusion:
why the heck are you here? are you trying to improve yourself or are you trying to get validation for your hatred of women and how awesome you seem to think you are? i have to side with foxe_hunter and the others. you don't seem to be here for help. change your attitude first and foremost. this is a place for help. not for trolling and self validation.

Ok you guys are right, a change in attitude is what's needed, last night's fiasco confirmed that. I'll post again when I've approached some more.

Girls would like you if you weren't so defensive. Do you know what a shit test is? You will never succeed with women if you cannot even get past her basic shit tests. You take things too literally and too personally.

Your problem is you don't truly love yourself. If you did, you wouldn't give a shit if 1,000 girls rejected you, because your opinion of yourself and your own sense of self-worth would come from within. You keep saying "i'm awesome I'm awesome" but you don't truly believe it, it's just your way of reassuring yourself. Deep down you are massively insecure. You fail because you are outcome dependent.

Think you might have Aspergers or autism bro. Learn how to pass shit tests!

Good luck dude, I'll be interested in seeing how you do

Ok, so last night started off good then hit rockbottom as I overdid the alcohol (every time). I had a nice haircut done and blonde highlights a few days ago, and last night I went to a summer ball with a few friends. I was dressed in a nice suit with a tie, waist coat and grey trousers (no blazer), so with the hair I was looking pretty good. I saw someone I knew on campus, he was with a crowd of people all dressed up for the ball. He told a girl he was with that I did boxing and MMA. She looked impressed and obviously flirting with me, said I could probably beat up most guys. I brushed it off, "oh no I'm just a big softy," I said - which could easily be the truth (never been in a proper street fight). Then they left me and my group (not involved in the conversation).

When I got there (cue was massive) I started off easy, made eye contact with the girls, smiled. One girl even flirted at me when she was with her boyfriend (touche). He didn't look pleased with me. I stopped one girl with her fellow walking out of the bathroom, put my hand on her arm, looked her straight in the eye and said she had toilet roll on her shoe. She spent a few seconds looking then I noticed it was already gone, so I pointed to the floor and slowly turned back to my group to save myself embarassment. But they both thanked me anyway and walked off.

I was feeling pretty powerful and in control. I wasn't seriously trying to hook up with most of these girls or anything, just warming up. One girl came up to me, looking me in the eyes seductively, asked if I had cigarette papers. I smiled charmingly and said no, sorry, and I was walking away slowly so she walked with me asking me if maybe my friends did and I said, well maybe, I mean you could ask but I'm not sure if they're smokers or not... then her friend dragged her away. I have a kind of nervous energy sometimes that people find charming. It's how I make up for my social awkwardness. I use it less nowadays though as I generally feel more relaxed and in control.

Then I was at the bar and the drinks were really expensive. There was a cute girl at the part of the bar I walked up to (pretty tipsy at this point), as soon as I saw her I said playfully, "you know what? The drinks here are soooo expensive, it's a total fucking rip off." And she smiled and said something, can't remember what and the bar girl overheard the conversation and made me guess the price of the drink. I guessed close to the price of the drink, "sooo expensive", I said to the bar girl who was giggling. I maybe said something else to the girl next to me but walked off with my drink before the conversation turned lame. Don't think she was interested.

Went on the dance floor, gave a few random girls the twirl (twirled them around) - I think I have to be at least a bit drunk to start doing this. Some hot girl in a white blouse was sat by herself looking at the ground or on her phone or something (can't remember). I came out of nowhere and crouched down on the floor to speak to her. It seemed a funny/spontaneous thing to do. She was like "umm do I know you" and I said something like "does anyone really know anybody" or something. Somehow managed to squeeze out a minute's worth of conversation, she obviously thought I was humorous enough to be worth some of her time if she wasn't that interested. My legs got tired pretty easy in that position though and I was too drunk to keep myself stable, plus I prefer to be the one who closes the conversation so I walked off.

I don't want to talk in much detail about the rest of the night though because my behaviour became absolutely atrocious and someone said something that upset me into acting up. When I'm like that, I just think that I'm invincible and that I can go up to any random people on the dance floor, act like a total idiot, dance with strangers, throw my weight around, etc. and nobody's ever gonna get physical with me because I'm so bad ass. Ended up getting on the bus back by myself and woke up with a hideous hangover.

My main problem is, I have the stomach to make a lot of bold moves - touch, eye contact, etc. - but I just fall short on conversation every time. Small talk I've always found intellectually draining and this is on a pretty non-sexual level. In short a lot of my conversations will be quite boring but I'll make up for that with eye contact, touch, acting just a little cocky and using humour. Dancing's good because you can lean in for a kiss without saying anything and I'm a good dancer (at least I like to think so). People find me charming to an extent but I know they can get fed up of me pretty easy, which is why I'm always having to close conversations and move around.

In short, I'm pretty desperate to get laid now so I can just get on with my life. I don't care if the sex is awful, or if it really doesn't matter that much or whatever. There's other things in my life that I want to focus on and I feel that I can't because of this little gremlin. I am a bit pissed off at women and I know that most people don't share my attitude but in my situation I think most people would feel in a similar way. Most people got girlfriends and things earlier on in life than me and I just feel that I'm athletic enough and cool enough that I should be able to do better than I have done.

I just don't know what it is holding me back. You might say it's all mental, but I can't put a finger on what it is exactly. Maybe it's a negative attitude, but that's not easy to change. Maybe it's a lack of self-esteem but that's because of the way my life has gone so far, always being broken down at school. Now people are different and I don't need to be so cynical or paranoid anymore and yet I just find myself questioning people's motives all the time - why they say and do things - even people quite close to me. I don't know if I have the heart to approach any more girls like this. All I can do is go down the friendship route and yet, I don't have that many female friends or the ones I do are bordering on acquaintances.

I thought joining societies would help, like people suggested about a year ago, but I didn't meet that many girls I was interested in that way and the ones I was, couldn't find an appropriate time or place. To be honest, the last year or so, it seemed like most of my friends were more like acquaintances and the ones who knew me better knew about the shit I get up to and disapproved. It's like I can make people like me quite easily to start off with and then when they get to know me, they start to dislike me. Most of the people I live with probably think I'm vain and totally unmanageable. They slowly stopped inviting me to things they were doing and on the whole I just pretended not to notice but I'm quite bitter about it. The funny thing is I can't tell if I deserve it or not, with my personality and the way I am. It's like 50% people like me and 50% think I'm obnoxious or not even that but just plain idiotic.

In any case, everything's about to change, I'm about to leave uni, all my social circles will be different, I'm probably not going to be in work any time soon, I'll be living with my parents and the place we're moving to is very isolated indeed (10 acres of land) unless you get the bus to town. I might just get a part-time bar shift just to fill in the time and so that I don't feel totally worthless and dependent on others. I'm probably going to have to put a lot of my goals and ambitions to the sideline for a while since work needs doing on the house. I probably won't be able to box or anything unless I can find a gym nearby me although it's not like it's a career choice of mine, though I do enjoy it. On the whole I feel a bit pessimistic, at least about my short-term future. I don't feel like I got everything out of uni that I had hoped to get out of it. It just doesn't seem like I'm worth anything much.

The answer is yes to negative attitude and yes to low self esteem. are you even trying to get help here or just complain online? because people including myself have been giving you good advice that this post shows that you've just ignored.
perfect example of advice ignored. i already said that not drinking alcohol while trying to game is one of the first rules that are taught. so if you drink then you automatically reduce your chances of success.
example of negative attitude.
you do not need sex to move on with your life. i know people that were in their 30s before they've had sex. they had very fulfilling lives. one got a pHD before they've had sex. i know someone else who was half way done with medical school before having sex. it's not the end all be all. however, if you have an aweful first experience then it can be jade you for all other encounters. if you think you hate women now then you will really hate women if your first time is awful because you grew impatient.
old school thinking. you don't need to have good conversation to be good with women. as a matter of fact long conversation can actually hurt you. you need a romantic connection. this is best achieved through kino. stop using your pickyness as an excuse for not getting women. success breads success. having any woman will only lead to other women wanting to be with you. women can sense men that are not available and will want to be with them. you can even make those women your wing. so stop being so picky.

finally, get out of your own head. stop with this image you have of yourself and what you think other people think of you. you write as if you are picturing yourself in this movie scene where everyone is thinking about your or not just because they speak or look at you. it's not that serious. most people won't think of you one way or another. it doesn't matter how you think you look. just interact with people (sober) in the best way you can and state your intentions (nonverbally if possible). women will let you know they are interested by how they respond. they will want to see you again ore do more with you.

This is good advice in general I think

Nice post

Sure, it's a good philosophy on life but I need more concrete suggestions. Openers, things to say, etc.
I'm not ignoring your advice, I'm just saying it's not as simple as, *oh well, smile, be positive and everything will be fine*. I've achieved a lot of personal goals the last year and learned a lot about myself. I'm a cynical person and that gives me strength in some ways but it also means certain mindsets take time and patience to work my way through. People often think I'm not taking their advice seriously and then they see later that actually I'm just thinking everything through slowly, breaking it down and analysing.
First off, I didn't ignore you, I said that it was bad I did this. But it's something that gives me more social lubrication and eases off the nerves, so it's a hard habit to break. I'm not just going to be able to game stone cold sober straight away. I need time to adjust. Second, actually nothing's wrong with a certain level of drunk. Like I said, social lubrication. Just need time to adjust that's all.
I just want to focus on certain goals without having to worry about this one stupid thing.

Well that's where I'm generally strongest and just using my dance moves and eye contact in general. The conversation I use is quite limited. And yet in practice it's not working, so...
I'm not that picky. I just want to know that there is a degree of attraction with a girl if I'm going to have sex with her.
It's not like I don't interact with people. It's just I do it through clubs, hobbies, etc. I'm just shit at small talk in general.

Ok, so I tried to think of some solutions to my girl problems, and I decided:

1. Lay off the alcohol,

Being drunk doesn't help me pick up girls, I get it. Just some times in bars or clubs I get bored or whatever so I that's when I start drinking. I won't be going out much now uni's over anyway and I'm not a massive fan of non-social drinking.

2. Take girls on dates,

I don't mind doing this, I mean dates are pretty nerve wracking but I don't think I'm above them or anything. Just dancing and saying a minimal amount in clubs seems like a more simplistic option because I'm a bad conversationalist in general. I'm just going to find it hard to find the right time and place to ask someone out. I tried online dating before but couldn't really find many people to start a conversation with.

3. Ditch misogynistic mindset,

It's not like I'm inherently anti-women or anything, I've just had a hard time not getting what I want and that's bruised my ego a bit. Apart from the fact girls expect us guys to do all the legwork approaching I really don't have a problem with them...

4. Look in other places besides bars

Not hard, I have a lot of interests and things. I've quit uni now so I'll have to find new clubs to join and I'll have to balance those interests with my work but I think I can do it. It was just kind of bad luck that I didn't really get to meet up with any of the girls who went to my societies at uni. If I can sustain a conversation long enough with someone I think I can pluck up the courage to ask them out.

5. More confidence

I have a lot going for me, but I have a negative/self-critical mind set. I don't really know what people mean when they talk about confidence. I mean I get what they mean literally but if you think about it, it's not really something you can just turn on and off like a light bulb. A lot of guys only feel more confident when they do things like improve their physique, improve their intellect, acquire new talents. Then there are a lot of subtleties involved in the kind of philosophy on life you have that can impact your confidence. I just think it's bad advice to say to someone, "oh just be more confident" because often times confidence is mistaken for arrogance which is not right. In some ways I do have a lot of confidence, it's just that I feel I've been held back in certain aspects of my life (e.g. women) and that's had a negative impact on me.

You've answered a lot of your own questions Please take the advice of others that have posted before me as the words are mostly truths and confirmed by my own exp and read literature... ahem

I didn't see you talk about your PUA learning. If you dig into PUA material, you will see any PUA will talk about self improvement being just as important as the women. What have you learned about pickup that brought you here? The one good thing I noticed is that you take care of yourself. That is a big thing, a lot don't. So focus on improving on other things.

What is holding you back is your self limiting beliefs (such as being bad w/ small talk) which stem from your attitude, like others have pointed out. When it comes to talk, guess how you get better at it? Practice. You don't have to go after just women. Try small chatting with other males. The leader of men is also the leader of women. From what you say, I doubt you have a large social circle. I didn't and it hurt me for a good part of my life.

There are many programs about things to talk about. Clothing, Relationships, Culture/Music - those are always interesting for women and most people. That's why folks like Mystery used canned material, it was so they had something already in their head to say. As long as you know a little about a lot, small talk is easy. For example, today, in this line at subway there were like 20 people lined up. I was pissed about waiting, but I utilized my time to chat up a random guy wearing a Redskins lanyard, in front of 15 other people. Of course, as is the norm, no one said anything to anyone else before me, while I was there at least. I talked about how they are my dad's favorite team, and as the chat went, we talked about other sports teams, where he was from etc. Take those opportunities to chat when there is less pressure, and it will get really easy.

I think you need more practice just talking with people. Like I showed above, the reason I can chat that guy up is because I have a lot of practice with both sexes. Another thing from your approaches, you need to spend more time talking with the woman. Of course this will be easier once you learn how to (interestingly) shoot the breeze with people in general.

Ever hear that 90% of what you say is non verbal? By dressing up too hard, you might be saying "I'm over compensating for my inability to talk." If you want to dress like a clown like mystery, that's fine, but by being a good talker, you are demonstrating you are a man of high value, as you are around many people, and talking is easy for you. This subcommunication is more of what you want to do, instead of being direct. The more directi you are the more likely you are to fail. I bet you if you go up to 100 different women and say "I want to fuck you!" you will be denied 100% of the time. That's why you see those "fat ugly" guys with women. They don't give a shit as someone pointed out, but they also are probably good with words/subcommunication.

Women are more emotional and tonal than men are. Therefore, you should not fault them for not seeing the full you. That's your fault, and where you need to improve yourself. You need to learn the proper way to project yourself. That's what the true message of great PUAs.

And one last thing. Once you get laid, you will realize you were stewing for nothing.

Oh, well, I've read the Game. Thought some of it was a bit weird, like saying things to girls like, "oh is that hair real". I don't know what other PUA stuff says, so I can't really judge. I like some of the tips found in these forums.
Yeah, I know. I've learned more from girls than it seems I have on here.
It's not like I don't ever chew the fat with guys too. Probably more so guys than girls. Just most of my interactions are fairly short because tbh, long winded conversations have never been something I especially enjoyed. I'm just a bit antisocial in general. Most people like talking about simple, ordinary things like clothes, the weather, where they're going on holiday, etc. It's just that none of that really interests me if I'm honest. I prefer to do things - active things. And I hardly ever know anything about the band someone's t-shirt says or what sports club it is they're in to.
Well, a lot of what I communicate is between the lines.
Like I said earlier, I just want the experience.

Hey man,

I really wanted to have my first post here in introduce myself or so, but cannot help myself from replying. I have no skills in game, look average, have quite a low self esteem, but at least I have respect for women!

Your blog is just complaining without taking any advices. I am also quite sceptical to everything myself, but take these advices, as your attitude is absolutely wrong. I don´t want to be offensive at all as I really believe you are a great guy to party with, but you are too concerned about fucking a girl.

For myself, the best approach is to don´t give a fuck as others mentioned. Stop thinking about getting laid, go to some girls and just chit chat with them about random shits, make fun of yourself, of your friends, neg them, go out. From my experience, some of these girls just stops me later same night to chat with me. It is evident IOI for me and I don´t have such a problem to push it a bit then as she is actually the one who showed the interest.

Again, I know, there is no game in it, but I am enjoying this and that is what the game, chatting and sex should be about in my opinion

Good luck in your effort!

i just want to add that it's not about what you think about the advice. it's about what works. outcomes will vary but i do not give advice that doesn't work. gaming is actually unnatural and illogical in many aspects. you learn to go to bars and NOT drink (drinking is the purpose of bars). you learn that women actually do not care about money or looks or anything that we learn is important in attraction. you learn that you can actually kiss strangers before even talking to them (what's up with that?). the point is that if you really want it. it's there and alot simpler to achieve for those that are willing to listen and accept the advice of those that know.

i'm not a master. but i can meet any woman. i can close about 1/3 of any woman that shows the slightest bit of interest. i can sleep with just about 50% any woman that will day two will me and 90% of any woman who will day 3 provided they aren't a virgin (my ultimate sticking point). and over the past few years i've dated just about every woman race and age (18-40+) you can think of. so when i tell you these things it's not from theory (unless i tell you it's theory). it's from actual experience of me and other gamers in the field that i have personally witnessed.

If any one who posted in this thread is interested in my progress, then check here:

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