You're so obsessed with the way guys look... You sound like you're gay.

You need 2 scales for men: Manliness vs. Looks

You could have a rough looking bad boy outlaw with a motorcycle, shaved head, unshaven face, tattoos and really muscular, doesn't take shit from anybody, doesn't play by the rules, but not what you would call "model looks". Then you could have an Armani model with perfect looks but acts like a fucking woman and screams if he breaks a nail etc.

So Rough Guy would get a manliness rating of 9 or 10. Model Gay would be a 1 or 2 on manliness scale. If you were a cave-woman, you would pick the Rough Guy 100% of the time, even though his looks were only a 4. But nowadays, with extra factors affecting a man's status such as wealth, social proof / pre-selection, fame etc. the model guys are still a good catch because they can offer you more than just good looks in terms of social status.

We men assess looks in women, because we are looking for a lack of deformity. By nature, we sub consciously see beauty as a measurement of how healthy our potential kids would be. So lack of skin disease, lack of spots, good physique, nice body odour, healthy long hair etc. Whereas sub consciously as a woman, you are looking for a protector, the man with the strongest / manliest sperm, who could kill an entire rival tribe to protect your babies if he had to. The pathetic vain model would be a useless caveman and would probably be beaten or ostracised for lacking testosterone.

Of course, some girls go for really affeminate guys, but this is only because they have excess testosterone. Tomboys tend to go for more submissive / passive / affeminate guys. On the flip side, the more estrogen a woman has, the more masculine her type of guy will be.

Your job as a girl is really easy. Just spend all your time and money to make yourself look as pretty as possible and your quality of men will increase. That's all you have to do, because looks are all that matter to us. Yes, personality matters too, but looks always come first. We men would never spend time getting to know a girl who was a 1 or 2 in terms of looks. She might be the most intelligent woman in the world, who was "beautiful inside", but we wouldn't even say "hi" to her. It's harsh, but true. All my female friends are hot, I just ignore ugly girls. Most guys are the same, but are not honest enough to admit it. Invest in your looks and you will never fail to attract high quality men.

Pebble has only just found out that the OP is a woman.

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Hunter's two scales makes sense. I mean we do have two scales for women: Cute vs Hot Babe(HB/SHB). Some guys value cuteness, others just value how hot the women are. The same could be said for women but I think there would be many more scales and it needs to be generalised into just the one scale give or take a few points depending on what factor they fall under(e.g. cute vs hot) for general obscurity.

As long as you above average in looks, you should be ok... Same with fashion! the less good looks the more attractive behavior and less room for error. The better looking you can have a bit more room for error, maybe less numbers.

But both need to put in the work and still approach and do the rest.

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@Pebble: Sharp boy!

@Game: Now we're getting somewhere. Male "beauty" is difficult to define, because you have all of these contradictory factors: height, musculature, slenderness, handsome face, ugly face, etc. There's got to be a general height to musculature ratio or something that constitutes as a good body. Although, a woman may have a a fuller-figured Jessica Rabbit type body or a Waif-like body, and those are pretty equally attractive.

There are different kinds of faces: your ugly, ruggedly handsome face, your pretty boy face, etc. Women have this too: there's the more adult-looking beautiful face and the more baby-looking cute face, but both Anne Hathaway and Eva Longoria are 8s. They fall in the same category.

With Men, I think beauty is some balance of body, face shape, hair, and facial features.

@Most of y'all: Why are you self-conscious about your looks? It's like you don't want to breach the topic of your own attractiveness, so you hide behind game and hair gel.

what the fuck are you talking about, and what are you asking?

it is a 10 point scale. meaning 5 is average. If you look slightly better than the average man you are a 6 and if you look like brad pitt you are a 10. Whats so difficult about that? TO some girls you might look like a 7 and to others an 8. This is subjectivity. Are you asking us what girls find attractive bc you could have said that in a more simple way.

@Hunter: Most women learn to love most men in spite of our natural revulsion. Women naturally find most men physically detractive. Even the most svelt guy is only going to trigger no physical reaction. The type of man that can physically attract me to himself by merit of his looks, that actually makes me want to go to him is rare. This man also has a huge natural advantage over other men. In the kingdom of women, a male 7 is like a female 5: not bad-looking, but not tingle-inducing. If he made a move, I would say, "sure." A male 8 is someone that I would notice after spending a small amount of time with him in a classroom. I'd get a crush on this guy. I might approach this guy. A 9 is someone I would want to make a move on, but be afraid of rejection/ my "womanliness" (or prettiness) being called into question. Anything less than a 7 needs to approach women with the best game he has, because he's only going to get attractive with time and under the right circumstances. I don't care if you have the hipster look down, sitting and waiting for an attractive woman is a stupid idea.

Women often use "personality" as a crutch to bridge the gap between our libidos and our revulsion. We learn to do this at some point in adolescence, when our drive by the former is so strong, that it surpasses the latter (which, have you seen adolescent boys?)

And I do know what I'm talking about, being a woman. So, a woman is not initially attracted to personality, jobs, whatever. That's just a development to cope with not having an 8 or a 9. I've seen it so many times: women passively fighting over the hottie, something fierce.

Alpha, beauty is subjective, unique, and comes from within. Like a Dove commercial.

Slightly off topic, but never ever EVER get a short pixie haircut, unless you want to attract dykes. I hate it when people defend really short hair on women. They're all like "Some women can pull it off", but that's a total red herring. The fact is, every single woman who can "pull off" short hair (Halle Berry, Charlize Theron) looks even better with long hair.

I dumped a girl over a pixie cut once. I told her not to do it and that I would lose my attraction for her. She still did it. I think she was a closet dyke in hindsight.

I had crappy friends in high school who told me to do this. Learned my lesson there!

Amen to that... Crew cut on a chick or any part of a chicks head that's shaved is fucking dire.

Absolutely no woman can pull it off. Those who are famous and would still get it? Well they're famous so no shit. Take "JLaw" for example: Long... http://styleslum.com/page/jennifer-lawr ... _width.jpg

Short... http://blog.msalon.us/wp-content/upload ... re_800.jpg

She looks like a boy!! And it's a fucking shame such beautiful women are embracing this when they look so much better with long hair. Take Rhianna: Absolutely stunning ( http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-83D26UmAKLk/T ... 795475.jpg ) to this ( http://www.stylesvilla.com/wp-content/u ... yles-1.jpg ).

JLaw is pretty tidy, but I never thought Rihanna was hot even with long hair. It's not that I think she's ugly, just not my type. Eyes too far apart and she has a forehead the size of a saucepan.

Rihanna with bangs fo' sho

What topic is there to be breached? Bottom line is that you can't do anything about your looks other than the obvious - good hygiene to clear up skin, get a good hair cut which suits your face shape, maybe get some facial hair which suits you, get in good shape body wise. If you're ugly, you're not going to suddenly become gorgeous just because you've been to the barber and lifted some weights.

So if there is nothing you can do about it, why worry? Yes, there probably is a high chance that if you're only a 4 on the man scale, you're not going to be getting any women who are 10s. But what's the point in sitting here worrying about that? Far better to go out there, try it on with a 10, if you get lucky great, if you don't, then try it on with a 7, then a 5 whatever.

However, my opinion is that the scales which we talk about on here (and even the scales we might rate a girl on when talking to our mates in the bar) are completely different to how things work in reality. When it comes down to actually making up our minds about whether we'd sleep with someone, it comes down to a simple 'fuck or not' question in our head. I can guarantee that in that first 2 seconds when a girl (or man) approaches you for the first time, your first thought isn't a number on a scale, it's a simple interested or not interested. You might then later put them on a scale, but that first two seconds is the important bit.

If someone's looks are in the "fuckable" territory, then it doesn't matter if they're "very fuckable" or "only just fuckable" in terms of their looks. As soon as they're into fuckable territory, other things are more important. I'd rather sleep with an "average" yet fuckable girl who is flirtatious and fun, rather than a drop dead gorgeous extremely fuckable girl who is boring.

Of course what "fuckable territory" is for one person will be different to what it is for another. And, of course, generally, the better looking the person is, the higher their "fuckable territory" threshold will be. But again, what's the point worrying about it?

It's not even a matter of where you are on some imaginary scale, it's also about what the individual finds attractive. Some girls will find skinny lads a real turn on, whilst other girls will immediately put any lad under 12 stone into the not fuckable category. There's just so much that I could be worried about if I started going down the looks route. Far better to be as good as I can - good haircut, skin etc. etc. and hope I fall into as many girls' "fuckable territory" as possible. Then let my charming personality do the rest

Depends how average we're talking. I'd rather fuck a drop dead gorgeous boring girl than an exciting intelligent minger. With the boring hotties, I rely on my ability to break them out of their shell and out of their comfort zone. Most people are only boring brcause they haven't been shown how to be exciting.

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