Hey guys,

I have no choice but to create this thread to seek for advice and tips. I'm always out with a particular friend, sometimes a small group..but I always have this close friend with me at all times. I feel that I can't game whatsoever with him around and I'm looking at how I can improve my game or appearance in order to stand out a bit.

Unfortunately, this guy is 6'4", natural tan, broad wide back and shoulders naturally, in shape, great looking, great dresser, and this guy knows how to talk. Me on the other hand, I'm about 5'11", I tan once a week, good shape, decent looking. I open sets no problem and I have no problem closing them. In group convos, it's very difficult to overpower his convo skills, he starts, he's loud and never stops bc he always has things to say..he creates lots of bs stories too, he's a sales guy.

Anyway, even if I tell him to stfu while I work sets around me, I still can't get anything. Any set that I talk to, they just have to look at him and I'm done, it's really that easy. Other than cutting this guy off, I'm not sure what to do lol. I have no single friends left unfortunately. I need to work on mastering my game while he's around...even though it's a challenge, I think with the help on here from you pros, maybe you can offer me some solutions.

I have a prime example from Fri night while at a restaurant. I was picking up the waitress and had it all laid out and told my buddy what to do and say to wing me. While I was chatting her up, she told me a couple other girls think we're drop dead gorgeous...then I worked her more with that one. At the end of it, I'm sure the others were referring to my buddy. I asked for the number and bill and she came back giving her card to the BOTH of us. Right away, I knew it was done. I texted her that evening, never heard back. 2 days later, I told my buddy to text her out of curiosity even though he's not interested in her and she got back to him. That's probably the biggest kick in the nuts which I'm still feeling.

These stories are all familiar. No matter what I do to game, I always get the number but it never sticks and my buddy gets everything based on his looks.

I'm thinking I need to change my appearing drastically and different. Other than facial reconstruction surgery, heightening surgery and roids, what do you guys suggest? I don't think my game has anything to do with it, he just has to sit here and I'm game over. I'm not sure if anyone's ever experienced this but it's a huge obstacle.

Thoughts from the pros?

Thanks

Your wing needs to help you out. Tell him that he needs to talk you up to the girls, let you lead the group set, etc. He's gotta help sell you to the girls more if you wanna take control.

Me and my wings always decide who's going to lead the set before we go in. If I let my friend run the set I'll always do my best to support him and take care of any obstacles (and vice versa).

It sounds like you just need to work together more.

I have the same situation but I've learned to deal with it and here's how. Everyone has their own strengths right? You say your friend is really loud and outgoing and really good looking. Obviously the girls are going to like him. Why would they not?

Don't worry about what he's doing though. He's alpha and so are you. Don't let his success control yours. He's loud and outgoing? Adopt the frame that you're almost patronizing him. Look at the girls like "yeah I know he's soooo loud isn't he?" Act like you're above what he's doing. Or, if you are also loud and outgoing just go bigger than him. I don't really know your personality but you get what I'm saying.

Also, like the first responder said, if you don't want to try and outdo him then you guys need to correspond and work together. Just tell him something like "look man we both know you're better at getting the girls than me so can you just give me a chance to shine for once?" Swallow your pride and say something like that. If he's you're friend he won't be a douche about it and will totally go along with it. Flattery will get you everywhere.

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"Why do we feel it's necessary to yak about bullshit in order to be comfortable?"- Mia Wallace

Girls always compare guys against each other, "who is the best catch?". In your case, he is better looking and becomes the alpha male in most groups. Most importantly is that he is "more alpha than you" so to speak, and you become beta when he is around. There can never be two alpha males in the same group without conflict, so don't try to outcompete him. IMO you have two options.

Take the role as the beta male.

You can accept yourself as beta and keep him around, and choose a strategy based on that. The alpha male always get more females than betas (just accept it), but betas still have a chance. If he has opened a set that you enter, you need to carefully select your target to be one who doesn't feel comfortable around him (perhaps insecure girls), or who have given up on him, since he doesn't give her any IOI's. In the latter case, you will be her second choice, which probably doesn't feel very good to you. When you have selected a target and started talking to her you need to isolate her from him. Go somewhere else where she can't see him.

If you have opened a set, and you know that he will soon approach and ruin everything, you need to isolate the girl ASAP, just as he shows up, you are about to leave with her.

Go out alone

This is what I recommend. If you don't have any other friends who can wing, go out alone! That is what I did with great success. Seriously, don't go out with him ever again. He is not good for you. In every group you enter, make sure you are the best catch.