I have read recently on this forum, that it would be enough to just talk to women. Be a man... Shit-test's don't exist... I doesn't matter what you say... It doesn't matter how you look bla bla bla -> BULLSHIT! >:(

As a recovering AFC, I've conducted an experiment in the field, where I
A: Was myself, I'm such a nice cute little kitten (thus the avatar )
B: Applied what I learned about PUA, being way more assy, way less "myself", way less "nice".

You may guess which method sparked attraction ^_^

This is for the Seniors and self proclaimed PUA's:
First you can't know it all, I might pull women you'd never get and vice versa.
Second don't tell beginners to just "man up" or that this and that isn't relevant.
Actually it is, it fucking is and don't tell me you didn't read and applied the material as you began PUA and it made you the PUA you are today.

It is so easy to say just be a man, be you doesn't matter blablabla with a 100 lays under your belt and experience from years of in field.

That's it for my little rant, hope this can spark a useful discussion in a section where it belongs. Instead of the trainee threads ;P
(Of course I've seen also some REALLY awesome master threads popping up lately. So it's not to be taken as general critique)

_________________
Life is not a Disney Movie. It's a frickin jungle out there...

experience will help you more then anything, just going out and doing it and not worrying so much can help a great deal, I see what you're saying and yes the quality of your plan and how your present yourself makes all the difference, but if you just get out there and talk to girls with some sort of logistical goal/plan in mind you will eventually just add to your plan and know what has worked for you in the past, people are people and they are random, there is not really a straight answer to the how to get people to like you equation since the equation is not linear, but the more you just attempt to solve your problems the better you will get at just being sure of what you are trying to do

Well I never say shit tests don't exist. They do. The problem comes when the newbie starts taking a "hello" as a shit test. Or even worse when they're starting to take everything as a shit test in a fucking relationship...

I also don't say "be yourself". It's rather "find yourself" and then you can forget about every stupid BS because you already have it inside you.

As much as I don't like Mystery, the "Fake it, till you make it" does work, though it gets misinterpreted badly. It's meant to say that by doing the right things over and over again, you can train your mind to alter yourself in a way that you no longer need to think about doing it.

The real problem I think is, that many people here think that if they have no life whatsoever and just start reading all kinds of PUA material and start applying it to the dozens of women who friendzoned them it would work. And it will never work. You need to go out, you need to meet people, you need to build an attractive lifestyle. Taking up exciting hobbies, building a bigger social circle, chasing your life-goals, etc. etc... This gets ignored way too much, and lots of times a girl blows a guy off because she was uninterested is majorly because the guy is simply not interesting. I'm not necessarily talking about DHV bullshit here, I'm talking about simply having a life. Something that might get women to want to be part of it.

And lastly about the "this and that isn't relevant". I know what you're talking about here. We can see it all over the boards. Looks don't matter, and other bullshit. But many times newbies come here with questions about really irrelevant stuff. This is caused by overthinking and overanalyzing anything and everything. They go through a process and want to classify everything a girl says as an IOI or an IOD, or a shit test. And they don't realize that a real interaction is nothing like that...

So you have much truth in what you're saying, but reality, as always, is not so black and white. Just my 2 cents.

Peace,

In$tinct.

_________________
"Bros before hoes"

Relationship guide: extended-relationship-guide-vt170687.html

http://wayoftheplayer.com/become-a-player/instinct

Here's the deal... Be a man. It's that simple. HOWEVER, most guys who are in your situation don't know how to be a man... So I can understand why hearing something like that might be... frustrating. (I would suppose is the right word for it.)

Once you learn what it means to be a man, shit tests won't exist because as a man, you don't care and you know how to react to them... by not reacting at all... which is a fucking mess. Alot of guys will "not react at all" and actually that in itself is reacting. As a man, not reacting is really not giving a fuck.

And it doesn't matter what you say... It's the vibe you put behind it. That's why routines are useless unless you know what vibe needs to go behind what you are saying.

The way you look only matters if it matters to you. I've gone out dressed to the nines and I've also gone out dressed like a complete slob (in sweat pants and house slippers) and seen positive results from both. So the way you "look" only matters if you make it matter.
That's great if it "sparked attraction." But did you get laid?

The "nice cute little kitten" (meaning yourself) may be seen as someone who is a pushover. I'm usually extremely nice to girls... However, I don't take shit from them either. I'm a nice person but I also have boundaries. Being an asshole will just make girls laugh at you like you are a clown.

The reason you hear "man up!" so much is because that simplifies all the bullshit. Just learn how to be a man. My advice to you is find a role model or a mentor (or multiple) and implement their habits into your own life. That's what human beings do.. we mimic others.
It's easy to say that because it makes it easier to understand. Going out makes you immune to the bullshit. It toughens your skin... It makes you more of a man. You've gotta get burnt a little bit though... You've gotta put yourself through the pain.

Hopefully this clarifies things for you

Telling a generation of men, raised by single moms to be a man, is kinda not helping them "to be a man" don't you think? ^_^ WRONG! Given the case she says shit-test xyz and you don't respond at all, ignore it and keep your show rolling. (I did that in field so no excuses here!) MAKES you look like a pushover.
The opposite of vibing like a bull (Which I also tested; Ye kitty is conducting this like sience ;P ) will make more fragile "personalities" run from you.
(Yeah don't care it's a numbers game bla... right? WRONG ^__^ it's a calibration game) Absolutely, vibing is something I just started a few days ago, with visualizing having sex with the girls I talked to, damn it's POWERFUL ;0 Again you are missing a crucial point, it doesn't matter to get A women at all, true. But to maximize your chances with ALL women it matters a lot. No ._. I just started a month ago... Hmm maybe I was a pushover, the gym and PUA took care of that. But that's exactly the point "being me" wasn't the way to inner happiness
And nah I calibrated quiet good now I'd say, with assy I mean more like "teasing" than being a clown or something ;P Yeah I got James Bond and that Salesman Video from -> Brandon for the role model parts, so +1 here get a role model.
And no "man up" is just the excuse for -> "read the material yourself and apply what works for you."
(It should be actually replaced by that =P ) Getting burned is easy, make use of the experience is more difficult I'd say. But I'm pretty immune to burns anyways nowadays as I am not a kid anymore Nope not at all, but thanks for the input Magic much appreciated.

Regards Cyber

_________________
Life is not a Disney Movie. It's a frickin jungle out there...

Let me ask you this - option a, you said you "were yourself". Now is that actually you? If you took your best two mates and went down to the pub, would you be the same as you were on the night where you went out trying to game girls and trying to be yourself?

I very much doubt it. You see, the thing is, even if we're just trying to be ourselves, around most people other than our family and closest friends, we aren't ourselves Even very confident people are often not entirely themselves around new people. They might be more themselves than the shy kid is, but even these really confident people often - almost subconsciously - hold something of themselves back in certain circumstances.

Whether it's because you're afraid of being judged (and let's face it, pretty much everyone is or has been at some point in their life), or because you're just not entirely comfortable around them, whatever. It might take some people months or years of knowing someone before they're completely themselves around that person. It might take other people only a matter of hours. But there is almost always a point for most people where they aren't entirely comfortable with the new person - especially if that new person is someone they're attracted to - and where they therefore aren't completely themselves.

That's what most of the advice above is trying to get at. So, what the more generic advice is saying, is that if you go out and get used to talking to strangers, you'll cut that "awkward/uncomfortable/not entirely yourself" time down until eventually you can be as close to entirely yourself as you're ever likely to be with virtually anyone.

Your option b says you used pick up skills and ideas you'd learned. Fine. Many on here advocate a "fake it til you make it" stance. But the point of doing that isn't really to try and become this almost comic pick up figure. It's to try and put across a facade of confidence and comfort. So if you're not entirely yourself, you put up this confident fake facade which "tricks" the girl into thinking that you are being entirely yourself - confident, cool and suave whatever - and then because the girl warms to you, you relax, and you can eventually reduce the pick up skills/techniques etc. and actually become more yourself.

Now obviously some things you read on here aren't "techniques" as such, they're more about helping you get laid in certain circumstances or they're about ways to help develop this more natural type of game and work on yourself. So I'm not saying that everything on here is getting you to create a fake personality - a lot of it isn't. But I think the general idea is that you use some of the technique type stuff as a crutch to help you overcome that awkward period of time where you don't feel yourself. But the overall goal is to be able to go up to girls and be entirely yourself. But just thinking that you're going to be yourself isn't the same as actually being your full confident self.

The anwser is yes I'm afraid... Fun fact: it scared a lot of people in my life when I was younger that I never put on a facade. I've learned to put on one when I got older though. True, but fear is a part of life we shouldn't get controlled by. And it's not really the issue if someone (happens to me too ofc) is nervous and does mistakes resulting from that. Yes, I know. It will surely help a lot of people to overcome their anxiety I am sure. (We should have a "get motivation" section in the forum for that though... on second though =P ) Wrong, that's not what I meant. It's not putting up a facade. I'm boiling with testosterone and confidence from working out 5 times a week + waiting at least 5 days before I masturbate + absolutely no porn anymore + stopped smoking 5 weeks ago etc.
What I am talking about is actually not a confidence thing, neither a I use canned line A or cue the moment to posture my body different from a PUA book or similar... there actually is a "code" of behavior which is boiled down into PUA "techniques" and lines.
It is NOT solely about being confident and being yourself as a result of that! And that is a sticky you make it easy for yourself to say that's all there is because your training has made you follow that "code" subconsciously probably, if you are aware of it or not is irrelevant.
Truth is you are USING a certain behavior pattern.
Part of this pattern is what you say in a certain situation or as a responses to hit a trigger.
(Pushing a girls buttons you surely have heard of that before)
Which is basically what I am learning at the moment, to hit the right switch at the right time, sorry but that's all there is deep down, especially when it comes to sexuality we are primitive instinct driven machines. But we also have the mind to manipulate the odds in our favor if we are conscious about that, which is what PUA is, no doubt about that.
(Btw I only do daygame) About the "techniques": it's sad that there aren't more, maybe I'll make some threads in a year or so, as soon as I got more experience myself.

@The rest: Sure this will work for most people and suffice to their basic need of getting a lay at some time, but it wont make them a master. It wont enable them to choose more freely (ofc there is no absolute choice, you can't have them all, but you can learn to maximize your chances with you desired targets).

Now don't criticize me for being all scientific about it it's in my blood. And we all know this motivation will probably stop go away once I got layed by any HB8+.
But till my primal instincts are shut down I'll try to use this opportunity to learn as much as possible in the process.
And it is NOT about "becoming a man" "or being confident" and if you are a real pua master/teacher :
deep down you know the truth you have taken the "red pill" (matrix reference) after all ;P

(To clarify here which I think is appropriate, I am not talking about the "dating advice" for the average bloke which is also provided on this forum. And thanks for that service guys btw.)

Thank you a lot for your input 7000 much appreciated

Regards

Cyber

_________________
Life is not a Disney Movie. It's a frickin jungle out there...

One of the most important things I've learnt is to be real. I also tell them, "I'm real. I don't play games." And I'm serious. I think I've experimented with all methods. Even crazy Tyler Durden stuff. I've evolved from a pussy to a douchebag and then calmed down and act normal. Now I'm myself. Real.

The best advice I can give to beginners is to improve. Learn from your mistakes. After a sarging, ask yourself what could you do better. And then do it.

I have a friend who's a year in the game. He hasn't improved. Nothing. Not one single solid #close. He's using the same lines (no routines, but his conversations are always the same and boring) as a year ago. What's the difference between me and him? I learn from my mistakes and I try not to make them again and improve.

Most people are like my friend. I tell them what I know and they don't apply it and make the same mistakes all over again.

Another mistake most noobies make is lack of calibration. I know, it's field experience, but some guys just don't get it. They're blind. Most of the times, for me it's so obvious a girl isn't interested but for some men they just stay in set. Wasting time. And then I think, "OMG, how is this possible."

Now I am curious... you don't play games? Hahaha :'D ...I don't believe you :/
And how to you create interest for your merchandise then? How do you sell? Just strike a conversation touch a bit and she's all steamy? I don't believe that shit unless you got money and looks of a model, are famous or hit on undesirables I wouldn't even look at ;P

Fun fact: last girl I texted with I acted "normal" which means I conversed with her almost like I converse with my friends, so "normal" you might say. Did it get her interested? Of course not.
I also remember doing texting completely different. I was just reminded of in a thread yesterday. Something in the lines of : cutting short responses, creating pressure in a way, creating a pull etc.
How normal is such a conversation?
It's not.
But it works. Of course that goes without saying. Yeah, see what you know hasn't much to do with "be a man" or "be yourself" it's acquired wisdom of the attraction code, a girl's buttons if you will. [/quote]
"Calibration" is a wide term I wish ppl would be more specific about it... there's calibration of the own persona, calibration of conversation, calibration of frame etc...

Of course it's sad they just lack the ability to read and know when to go.

You know I'd say it more sad that they lack the skills to create interest for the merchandise. You can switch the whole night from one set to the next till you get some one to respond the way you want. Is good for training, very good indeed.
But I want to reach maximization with my chances on a single set / girl not overall. I am very picky and seriously I'd rather not go below a 8 though I'd surely fuck a 6, but I didn't start PU to just get the easiest lowest chick that just happens to respond nice because she hasn't got so many options.

Meh another believer of "be yourself" "I don't play games" ...what a "Pick-Up" :* community :'D

Regards

Cyber

_________________
Life is not a Disney Movie. It's a frickin jungle out there...

"I don't play games"

It doesn't mean he doesn't flirt, dude... A "normal" conversation is not equivalent to a boring/friendly one.

Not playing games refer to that we sell what we are. We don't bullshit the women to get in their pants. We won't lie to them about our intentions. We won't start with a bullshit "who lies more?" or some other stupid opinion opener(don't get me wrong. It's great for beginners with super AA to start a convo) because we don't give a shit about this. We want to meet and get to know her as a real person, to see if she's good enough. So that's going to be the coversation. It is real and normal because we communicate what we want. We get to know her, and we flirt with her, and then if things click, then we close the deal. If things don't click, or we fuck up, then we walk away with a smile because we have gained valuable experience, and then move on to the next set.

I don't really see your point about maximizing your chances with one set, but not your overall chances. There is just absolutely no difference. Your chances depend on mainly, what you are. And the other important factor is the girl.

_________________
"Bros before hoes"

Relationship guide: extended-relationship-guide-vt170687.html

http://wayoftheplayer.com/become-a-player/instinct

We play games because seduction is supposed to be fun for both the seducer and the seduced. If the girl(s) are not having any fun at all when you're interacting with them, then you don't get laid. That simple.

Hence, the really good PUAs have an arsenal of fun things in their seduction: pillow fights, banter, kino escalation, passion, dances, good sex, adventure, drama and so on and so forth.

It's easy to feel the vibe of forum posters around here whether they're fun people or not. It's even easier to tell the constantly bitter ones who don't get laid versus the emotionally volatile men (which a lot of women love) who get laid a lot. Even the ass tight, boring ones (I would wager my neighbor's fighting cocks 100% that they too like the bitter ones are not getting laid) are easy to pinpoint.

Take out the 'game play' and 'fun' and you're left out with nothing but your dick in your hand instead of a hot girl riding your cock.

_________________
Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html

It seems that I have another definition for 'playing games'. I do sometimes misinterpret what a girl says to me and make it sexual and blame it on her, on purpose. I do ask when I'm on the phone what she's wearing. I do escalate.

This is what I call 'playing games':
- You receive a text message and reply 30 minutes later to act like you're a busy person.
- You lie to get something from her.
- You act like you're rich.
- ...

Generally, everything you do that is not you is what I call playing games; acting like you're someone else. Flirting and having fun is not what I call playing games.

By your definition, playing games is about intent then more than the act. If your intention is to give girls fun and one hell of an emotional roller coaster ride, then texting a girl 3 days after because you want her to feel anticipation and excitement is all good.

Something like...

You: I dreamt about you last night.
Girl: What was it about?
You: [Emotional roller coaster ride here peppered with sexual innuendos]
Girl: And then what happened next?
You: Oh, I'm going to an errand at the mall a few moments from now. I'll tell about that to you later.
Girl: What a cliffhanger! Can't you tell me about it now?
You: [No answer for 3 days.]

_________________
Approach. Open. Escalate. Isolate

Here are my two essential rules on texting that will save you tons of time and money:

general-questions/topic137931.html

Why would anyone need to lie to a girl, if you knew how the psychology of attraction works and what is possible for you given your skill-set and experience?
That's not playing a game that's just being an afc or an idiot No actually all you want is to get her into your bedroom and have her ride your cock and scream of pleasure. Did I mix up the term Pick-Up with "Dating Advice for the average joe"... I wonder _._
(Of course you don't want that if she turns you off for some reason during the conversation so there's that "testing" ofc) You learned, you gained experience about how to hit attraction switches with that persona or how to not hit em in case you fucked up.
Hows that different from learning to play tetris? o.0 Maximizing with the single set skyrockets your overall success rate, while focusing on multi-sets only teaches you to get the most compatible with your current skill level. Therefore freezing you to a certain set of personas instead of giving you the opportunity to improve on the whole variety of personas on a larger scale.

It's like playing on easy mode all the time and then after being an expert at level 1 calling yourself master of the game cause you learned to make these particular jumps blindfolded =P
(Then switch from picking up the drunk girl in the club, your college whatever(Your level, you mastered) to a classic concert or a library bookworm girl at daygame. You'll fail, that's that)
Hellz yeah, that's what I want to learn seduction, not having a self-proclaimed expert tell me all you need is to "man up" and "be yourself" pff -_-
There's far not enough advice concerning real seduction on the forums. God... I need to get laid, watch me metal masturbating, this thread's already dripping with my jizz :/
poor kitty haz to work for a project 24/7 till 04.02 (no sarging till then only computaz time) bare with me Nuuu ,lying is not playing a game it's being an afc aka idiot/jerk.

(Underlined part)Considering playing busy, I am with Hellhound it's a technique.
And damn I am also here to learn exactly things like: how to put her in an emotional roller coaster.
Where's the thread describing this? Let me answer, not here man up and be confident that's all you need...

And that's exactly my beef with "The Truth" that it's not the truth, it's just a scam that was started by guys like RSD and others to cash in as motivational trainers, they have got no idea about pick-up or at least wont share the meat of it, as they'd probably lose all their opportunities for a sale of their product.
Which is self improvement, there is nothing wrong with that ofc. I improved myself too at some point in my life and it's really nice to have it so strong present in the PUA community but...
I AM A MAN ALREADY! I AM CONFIDENT ALREADY! I CAN TALK TO WOMEN ALREADY! I WANT TO LEARN PICK UP GOD DAMMIT!

_________________
Life is not a Disney Movie. It's a frickin jungle out there...

If all you care about is getting laid, then you will never ever reach master level. When I'm single, each and every set that I open, I want to genuinely find out more about the girl, who made me curious. And if she doesn't live up to my standards, then she can have the hottest body in the world, she's not getting any... I'm on the field to have fun, to entertain myself, other people, and to meet possible mates. Not a predator that's just lurking around for his prey.

And no, I'm not saying I'm a master myself, I still have work to do, but at least I don't limit myself with speculations.

_________________
"Bros before hoes"

Relationship guide: extended-relationship-guide-vt170687.html

http://wayoftheplayer.com/become-a-player/instinct