Male
22 YO
Next to zero relationship experience.


Here's the short of it fellas, let me start by thanking you guys for this forum and all the advice you give it really does help change lives and you are changing mine with every thread I read and every nugget of information gained. Thank you.

Let's start by calling myself a complete newbie but a non virgin.

I started working out and taking care of myself and a cute girl at work took notice. I asked her out for coffee awkwardly and got shot down a month ago then realized she was showing interest and asked her out again and she agreed.

My main struggles are kino and confidence and I'm working on these with your help.

First date was Friday evening.
She got dolled up and we went for sushi and an art display downtown. It was awkward and I had zero physical interaction with her. I had opportunity but had no balls to pull off any physical interaction.

We spent the morning together and made breakfast at her place and we had a lot more congruence with the converstaion and Sat close on her couch and I missed another opportunity to make a physical move on her.

That night (saturday) I read up on escalation and made it my goal to initiate some the next day (Sunday)

We went shopping and grabbed dinner and I playfully begged her, bumped her, pulled hair off her jacket and had her around my arm as we walked through a haunted cememtery.

I dropped her off and got the same night ending hug as the previous two nights. I can feel her interest slipping a bit as I put myself in the friend zone. She is receptive to more dates and thinks my summer plans are amazing and keeps saying she wants to come with me to travel.

Unless I can initiate some type of physical
Contact soon this is going to fizzle or turn into a friend only relationship.

I also have nice guy issues but that's for another thread, I am working past that and we are getting more comfortable l
Around each other.

This sticking point is really holding me back and I am seeking help I am great at heeding advice and will post results on any plans or in depth responses so please help me work past this.

Thanks guys

Keep escalating the kino at your own pace. You are in a really really good spot in that you have a girl who is willing to hang and is receptive to you. Don't think that you have to match someone else's idea of what you should be doing on Date 3 etc. because you are very new to this. Next steps are more kino & kiss close. You got this.

Thanks for the input I definitely felt rushed by my own idea of where I should be in the relationship. The kino yesterday was hit and miss, sometimes it felt awkward sometimes it didn't. It's so new to have physical contact with women that initiating it seems impossible but I am determined to push past this. Any good kino ideas on a casual date or cooking dinner at her house or something? I find the courage to do it but sometimes those what and how are what slip past me

Just be in a light, playful, flirty mood and be touchy/feely with the girl. Yes def do the dinner @ her house thing. You are on the right path. Come up from behind her when she is chopping carrots or whatever, smoothly tell her she smells good and maybe kiss her neck lightly (be sure you have been kinoing her on the date before this btw); give her a nice hug when you walk in the door for example; that kind of stuff.

Sometimes you need a kick in the ass and be told to just man the fuck up.

Trust me, I was sort of like that a year and a half ago. Met a beautiful woman, she was crazy about me and wanted me to make the first move. I didn't because I was a pussy. She would go out with me, we would go to museums, have lunch and stuff. By the third date I knew she was losing interest because I wasn't making a move. I knew if I didn't at least kiss her that night she was going to walk away because I was too much of a pussy to do anything with her.

I had doubts -- many doubts regardless of the IOIs she was throwing at me(Eh, hello! She was on three dates with me for one!) -- and I focused on that. Eventually I came to the forums and did the exact same as what you're doing: Asking for help. There was one guy on these forums, I think his name was puaninja, and a few others who were prone to tell you what you had to hear, not what you wanted or needed to hear for yourself(If that makes sense). There was no cushioning or saving your ego.

They told me to "Man the fuck up." "Just go for it and don't regret it no matter what." It was the best advice I got. I just shut off the doubts, the regrets and kept this in mind "If I don't kiss her now I won't ever kiss her."

Consider that you've already had a bunch of dates with her and realise that she IS going to walk away if you don't show some investment(A kiss). Keep that in mind and at the end of the night just go for it because otherwise you're not going to score her. Your next time is your last chance. Stop thinking so much about it and just kiss her. Be a man. Don't care about the delivery of the kiss, don't care about what she's going to think or if it's the best approach for a kiss, just fucking go for it. Don't you dare think about leaving that woman without so much as a kiss!

Good luck!

Perfect thanks man anything more like this? I love those two ideas, how about ways to not come off as awkward as fuck? That's what scares Mr the most and holds me back is fear of rejection and losing what I have with her seeing as its all so freash and exciting I'm very protecting over keeping what I have and this is preventing me from moving forward. I know that if I don't it's going to be the friend zone for me and I would despise that. Any insight or practical applications to help me through this mindset?

Great post thanks for the advice tomorrow we're going to stand up comedy and I will go for the kiss to end the night. I will post the results here for you guys. Any tips on kino leading through the night? I often find the courage to get physical but lack the practicality of making a move I'm reading up on it now but personalized advice is always welcomed.

Don't even waste your time with Kino. It's nice and all but she's clearly into you if she's doing all this stuff with you. She's expecting a kiss, don't put too much on your plate. Only apply kino if you feel safe and confident with it, all you need to focus on is kissing her at the end of the night. Kino is not a requirement at this point. She already feels comfortable around you and she already likes you.

The entire point of kino is to make a woman feel comfortable with you. Kino escalation is to make things sexual so you can lead further and further into more private areas of her body(As opposed to shoulder tapping moving to having her by the waist and such). It leads up to sex as it lowers barriers and allows you to get more sexual with her so she doesn't feel uncomfortable about it but from the way things are you don't seem like you just want to have sex with this woman asap. You're quite happy to take your time? Kiss her, forget everything else. After that the barriers will be down completely for both you and her on your next meeting.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if you kissed her at her door and she asked you to go in for "tea or coffee." You've taken it slow, been on a few dates with her, she's had fun and she's interested in you. She might just go all in because you've withheld anything sexual from her, making her want you all the more. She's probably really god damn excited to get things moving along and wants to push on through.

Although... if you really are pushing for kino and feel confident in doing it(You shouldn't be uncomfortable or nervous, it's not a big deal at all) just start off small: Friendly tap on the shoulder if she's said something cheeky or even pushing her forward with one hand(*Pushes small of back* "Come on, don't be shy... The table won't bite" <--- Or whatever). The fact that you've penetrated her "outer barrier"(Imagine a bubble around her, that's her "outer barrier") is enough to warrant that you're confident enough to touch her and she's happy with you being that close. Kino is great for testing the water to put it simply. The more adventurous and risky your physical touch the more of an IOI it is when she doesn't deflect or show an IOD.

This is great advice and leads me to another brief issue. Ive played the nice guy over these dates and may have stiffled some attraction. In fact ive seen that reaction over the three dates. The first one she got really dolled up and acted differently then the last two. This has led to a nice guy trying awkward physical contact and has come off wierd, or friendly when ive tried to do it. How does this change your advice over the last post if at all?

It doesn't change my advice.

My advice is just to kiss her at the end of the night and forget about kino. You've not applied kino much at all from the sounds of things but you know you need to kiss her and you know she likes you. As you said you're almost in the friend zone otherwise. The only way to do a 180 from there is to kiss her at the end of the date.

Forgive yourself for this first awkward kiss. It's either an awkward kiss or a drunken, sloppy kiss. The shit in the movies never happens and i'm willing to bet she's a realist like most of us are. If it's an awkward approach to kissing her it really doesn't matter if she likes you.

At the end of the night just go for a kiss instead of a hug or kiss on the cheek. Do the "Goodnight" then switch out the hug or peck on the cheek for a kiss on the lips then find out what she ate that day.

Either way the one thing that should be going through your mind at the end of the night is: "I either kiss her now or I nothing is ever going to happen." So do it. Just kiss her, don't think about it, don't worry about it. Just do it.

wowow, first i don't know about co-workers, i advise against that for many reasons. Second, fuck kino that is for nerds, escalation has to be done from point 0, now you may creep her out, cuase you have not escalated at all, so now if you all of a sudden escalate is one big move, you need to escalate on everybody everyday, men(no homo), women, mom, sister, get touchi touchi with everybody... Is not something you do, is something you become or are, is not calculated.

http://60yearsofchallenge.files.wordpre ... n-vibe.pdf


And not fucking dates, dates is for chumps... learn how to do it right...


http://www.theskillsmethod.com/how-to-p ... encounter/

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

Okay time to update everyone as promised.

We had plans to cook dinner at her place and go to a comedy show. I really focused on micro escalation and had amazing results. I focused on eye contact and looking at her lips and she responded right away. We had a great evening and laughed our asses off. She was very responsive to escalation. I still avoided physical contact and am kicking myself for it but am still pleased with the results of micro escalation. As we parted ways literally ten minutes ago she opened up for a great hug again and I missed the opportunity for the kiss but definitely made some gains tonight and feel comfortable and confident moving forward from this point. The first three dates went from good to average but tonight some fireworks really clicked and feel awesome about what lies ahead. Thank you for all your advice thus far.

Some quick questions

How many dates is too many in a given week in starting a relationship? We're had four since Friday and I don't want to stiffle attraction by being around her all the time.

Also, active listening really helped me tonight to with sexual tension. We're been talking over each other but tonight I really tried to avoid that. This lead to some awkward silent moments however. Any tips on working through those moments?

Thanks again guys this thread has helped tremendously please ask any questions for more details or clarification if needed...

The best and fastest way to get a gf, or get a girl invested is to FUCK HER, get it, that is the ultimate investment focus on fucking her, everything else will take care of itself...

_________________
Learn the proper way to maximize your results in a dancefloor/club environment, check out my blog and youtube channel:
http://www.dancefloorseduction.com

Dancefloor/Club game youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/dancefloorseduction

Thanks for the advice I agree completely. There has to be some physical comfortability before she gives it up right? I had that tonight but failed to capitalize physically. I know the power of micro escalation and will utilize it next time to really set the mood for a hug whets I grab the lower back and go in for the kiss then from there an f close the next time.

My strengths tonight were:
Micro escalation
Active listening
Eye contact
Comfortable conversation/more natural
General connectivity/sexual tension

My weaknesses tonight were:
Lack of physical contact
Eagerness in movements
Fidgity body language
Talking too long too often
No kiss close

Thoughts for improving these weaknesses and capitalizing the strengths?

Rather than focusing on these one at a time on the next date, take an overhead view of things and definitely escalate physically. Don't try to fix figity body language etc. or you will be way too in your head.

As mentioned by other posters above it would be a complete miscalibration in this situation to take what a "pua" would do and implement it as it would probably completely overwhelm this girl who is in rhythm with your slow but somewhat steady escalation of the entire process. That's the frame you've set in her mind. There is no 'stock answer' for any one given situation because it's a unique interaction between two real life human beings not robots.

Again, the girl shows zero signs of disinterest and is completely into you. As long as you keep escalating the situation she'll more than likely keep coming back for more. A forum like this has lots of guys including me who are used to oftentimes going for the sex on the first meetup. That simply does not apply in this situation (obviously - you're on date 5 and have barely touched the girl).

Fix the lack of physical contact on the next date. Also strongly suggest going for the kiss close during the date next time, not at the end of the date so you can make more progress than just a kiss on the date i.e. makeout session and whatever else FEELS NATURAL TO YOU. Use the awkward silences to your advantage. Stare into her eyes, look at her lips, go in 80% and let her meet you 20% of the way and get the kiss over with.

Ultimately you're going to want her very used to your touch and for you to follow your natural instincts to fuck her. So lead everything to that point. Don't take forever, but potentially try to speed the pace up a bit. Just try not to put a ton of pressure on yourself and try not to think "should I be doing this, should I be doing that" and rather let things flow.

Who knows, things may lead to the f-close next time