I had no idea something like this existed. I just stumbled across it accidentally.
I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind.
Do you guys use these books and tehniques for casually picking up girls or do you use it for finding girlfriends as well? And what is it like with your girlfriends? I mean, do you use the books and this forum for the problems in the relationship? Do you plan on getting a wife the same way, if you're going to get married?
I'm just wondering about your view on women and relationships. Do you think manipulation is necessary in a relationship? Do you think it cannot work without it? What kind of girls are your "targets"?
Feel free to say nothing at all, if you'd like

I've read a few posts but I guess I'm still confused a bit.
Don't think I'm judging you or anything, though, I'm just curious

Have a nice day!

One of the "gurus", the guy who first popularized all this stuff, Neil Strauss, said something that really resonated with me. After getting himself a long term girlfriend (and later wife), he said something along the lines of "she fell for me not because of the lines or the routines or for any of that, but for the real me, formy own individual unique personality, but without the techniques, I never would have been confident enough for her to meet the real me". That's how I personally look at this, not as a way to manipulate and pickup girls necessarily (though every guy wants a one night stand from time to time), but as a way to be able to form positive connections with girls and bring them into my life in a bigger way. Sometimes I meet a girl at the bar and yeah I do want to "game" her and bring her home for a night of fun, sometimes I want to take her out for coffee and dinner and form a healthy long term relationship, sometimes I just meet someone cool who I want in my life as a friend. I strongly believe that each relationship ( I mean a series of interactions between two people, not necessarily a romantic relationship) carves out its own path and pick up gets me in the door to experience those relationships. Every guy is different, some do want one night stands, some want girlfriends, some want wives, but I think for a lot of guys, guys like myself, it's just a way to bring more women into their lives in a wide variety of ways.

As for relationships, I don't think manipulation is necessary, no. That said if you have a good grasp of the fundamentals of solid game- not the lines or routines, but the principles which underlie them- you can apply those fundamental principles to build a happier relationship and to hang onto someone you really care about when you otherwise might have lost them. Relationships can work without injecting anything to do with pickup 100%, but adding it to the equation can be helpful sometimes from a guy's perspective.

As far as targets, that hugely varies. I like to stick to the "3 second rule"- if you see a girl, you approach her within 3 seconds before you get nervous- so anyone who catches my eye, either through their beauty, their sense of style or their attitude can potentially become a target.

Hope this helps!

-Maverick

Thanks so much for replying
I understand where you're coming from. I don't agree with everything, but I understand it.
I don't know how I'd act if I were a man, though. One night stands don't interest me, but it's not like I don't see the merits.

Thanks again for answering. Have a nice day, Mr. Maverick

How dare you girl? I make sure u regret infiltrating the guys room. kidding. ha ha ha. About your questions, let me answer it one by one, according to my opinion as a guy.

You ask "Do you guys use these books and techniques for casually picking up girls or do you use it for finding girlfriends as well?"
My answer: I use these techniques to make friends with girls (including very good looking girls ) and make them happy and their life exciting so that i am happy too. I love to joke around and solve people problem and to be able to solve their problem and make them laugh means a lot to me. And yes, i achieved those, but mostly on guys but not girls. Why? Basically, before, i don't really know how girls is generally like or should i say biologically wired. So things which typically works on boys will mostly not gonna works on girls and i find that disappointing. I am confuse by the girls actions and reaction and response to my act which i don't really encounter on boys. For me before, everyone can be rationalize by clever reasoning but i was wrong. So yeah, now, i have a great time with girls. As for finding girlfriend, i am not interested in finding a girlfriend yet.


You asked "And what is it like with your girlfriends?
My answer: Sadly, i don't ever have a girlfriend, thanks to my lack of understanding in girls and my severe lack of confidence before, in addition to lack of skill in tackle a girl (if u know what i mean. ha ha ).


You asked "Do you use the books and this forum for the problems in the relationship?"
My answer: I did mention i like to solve people problem right? And solving the relationship problem is one of it. I feel great nowadays, since i can easily saw the flaws and mistakes that boys and girls make on each other and how to correct it. I think now i am a relationship expert (by my definition of expert ), despite never have a girlfriends before. And yes, i do solve some of my friends relationship problem and i intend to continue doing that. As for myself, i wish one day when i have a my true love, i wish to make her live as happy as ever and as exciting as possible, a perfect relationship (or at least close to perfection). I don't know if you know this but making people happy and making them like u and feel great is a form of skill learn either through experience or from books and practice. This is similar to special relationship. People brake up is in my opinion is because they lack the knowledge and skill about special relationship. The more they break up or should i say the more experience they are in a relationship, the better they get in it. But not all people are lucky enough to learn how to be a good boyfriends or husband through experience which is why PUA books or other dating books come into play. I don't wanna tell you the fate of a husband who lack the knowledge about girls and relationships is in his marriage.


You asked "Do you plan on getting a wife the same way, if you're going to get married?
I'm just wondering about your view on women and relationships."
My answer: All i can say is i gonna internalized most of the principle in those PUA books and rewired my mindset, personalities, attitude and so on and also change my lifestyle base on what the PUA books considered what is attracted to a girl/women and i gotta say, having those new mindset, lifestyle and personalities make my life feel great even if i don't get any girls.


You asked "Do you think manipulation is necessary in a relationship? Do you think it cannot work without it?"
My answer: Manipulation happen when people manage to get something bad from people. Persuasion is the act of getting something good from people. Manipulation and persuasion are basically the same except for the act and intend i believe. Persuasion happen everyday in our life either you notice it or not. People sometime don't make their intend visible when they are about to persuade something. The good example for these is advertisement. You think advertisement don't use any sort of mind programming? Think again. ha ha ha. I gonna use the term persuade here. You do see how guys try to win over girls right? especially during engagement and marriage? That's for me a form a persuasion from the guys. Don't u like it if the guys try to win u like that? Does't it sound not romantic? If it's not, perhaps you don't know it yet between a good persuasion/negotiation technique and a lame one. The books here is basically about persuasion but more specialize since it is how to persuade girls and under the art of persuasion, it is more that simply a one benefit relationship. It is about mutual benefit and satisfaction. Why don't you you-tube 'Tao of BadAss' and u see what i mean.


You asked "What kind of girls are your "targets"?"
My answer: If it is as friends, then i don't mind any girls except for the 'attention whore' or other negative girls. If it is as my potential girlfriends, then...............................................to be continue.


So that's it for my answer. Hope you satisfy with it and start to look this PUA stuff in a more positive way. he he he.

I wish there was a like button for this comment man. Exact how I feel.

Thanks dude, glad to hear my attitudes resonated with someone else out there!

We're just normal guys who've taken time to learn a craft lol. Seriously, we're mostly guys who were self conscious lacking confidence bad w girls ECT, who looked for advice or self-development for one reason or another(for me it was a series of bad break ups in long-term relationships). Alot of us have girlfriends, myself included(I was even engaged at one point lol) and were all different. For my buddy, it's about experiences for himself and with women, for me it's about being the best me I can be and experiencing everything I can in life...for some it's just about sex(I do mean SOME). The problem is, by default pua's get a bad rep bc by studying an everyday interaction that appears weird to outsiders, and to make it worse there are creepy guys who misapply tactics and make us all look bad. Most of us seek to avoid manipulating women but there are some losers who do anyway(look up NLP). That said, I like to quote one of my first mentors in RSD Tyler when I say this: "Pickup is creepy as hell, what we do and what I do is creepy as fuck. BUT, there is only one thing creepier than learning how to pick up girls"
STUDENT:"rape?"
Tyler Durden: "there's only TWO things creepier than learning to pick up girls! That is, NOT learning to pick up girls, because when the AFC, or the guy who doesn't understand women keeps hitting on the receptionist at the gym, or his co-worker Janese, who only sees him as a friend, and they push him off and he STILL doesn't get it...THAT is what's REALLY creepy. The guy who doesn't understand women, and keeps pushing, and calls girls sluts if they won't sleep with him, THAT is the guy whose really creepy"

It's also important to mention that guys who call themselves pua's are not what you think of as a pua. Because when you think pua u probably think cheesy canned(prepared) pick up lines, whereas a pua is someone who usually starts with prepared material(to build confidence and get practice/repetition) but becomes someone who studied these concepts and principles to become a person who behaves in a more confident way ECT but eventually uses little to no canned material

Lol...so yeah, hope this helped. Please respect that were NOT all creepy, mysogynistic assholes, and that is just the image sold by the media. Because the majority of us are just normal guys who had a rough point in life who decided to make something of ourselves.

Best of luck finding more info!

haha that username

Philosophus basically described my own upbringing. At this time last year, I had failed to get the one girl who I thought really was for me, and I was frustrated with how I was doing socially and with all girls in general. One night, while I was reflecting on how I wanted to get this one girl on Facebook, I had the light bulb moment that Google would have the answer. That is where I found Neil Strauss and the world of pickup. At first, I screwed up a lot of different things, but then after a couple thousand hours of hard work, it finally all clicked in for me, and that was when I started seeing the results that I really wanted.

I have not only used pickup to become successful with women, but I have also used it to become successful in the social scene. I am now a major leader in one of my college's fraternities, and I have commandeered the respect of many. I have a girlfriend that is finally within my own interests, and all of these things have left me the happiest I have ever been in my life.

People like us flock towards the game because it promises something better for those who need it. We are the have-nots, men who always had problems getting the kind of girls we really wanted in life. Being autistic, I was basically at ground zero when it came to understanding how to get the kind of women I really wanted.

The idea that pickup artists "manipulate" is a false stigmatism. It is also an unfortunate thing that some rookies learning pickup for the first time also believe. There is no magical trick or special thing that will get girls to jump all over you. Almost everything that relates to pickup is about inner game. In other words, in order to get the girl of our dreams, we have to change the things that we do.

As for my targets, I have a list of physical qualities that I look for in a girl. If she has at least one of them, then she is a go. Once I start chatting with her and getting to know her, then I do another check. If she satisfies the majority of the social requirements I look for, then she is an all clear to advance things with her.

Hope my two cents helps you to understand who we are a bit better. Cheers

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"There is no better than adversity. Every defeat, every heartbreak, every loss, contains its own seed, its own lesson on how to improve your performance the next time."

Hey,

I started because I could not understand why my "perfect" relationship ended and I am in the process of fully understand why and I think that's the most what I can get out of that. I strongly dissagree to use manipulation in a relationship. The point is to be completly yourself and to be accepted as you are. That was one of the best feelings I have ever had! I just want now to improve my chances of meeting women I deserve! as simple as that

All the sudden, I came with a doubt that "nopenis" isn't a girl.

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Looking for PUA San Jose or SF.

Money.Power.Respect

Girls invented feminism, guys countered by inventing PUA ;P

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Life is not a Disney Movie. It's a frickin jungle out there...