Is complaining about her boyfriend an IOI? I would say yes but another girl I was talking to did that, I thought it was an IOI BUT when I started giving off IOI's, I got LJBF hints! The girl I'm interested in was a girl that last summer we definitely had a mutual physical attraction, (as well as an intellectual one) when I was a straight needy AFC. Pretty soon she called me "high maintenance" lol and blew me off. After a few months of not talking I re-established contact with her as a "friend" by using our intellectual connection as my way in but my alterior motive is to get her; FOR REAL this time. So far by using what I've learned I've done well, and have her contacting me. The thing is she does have a bf she said she's been dating for a "few days" and he seems needy and told her he was worried he was boring her which she said he was. If complaining about him sounds like an IOI, how can I shake the friends thing and DHV than her bf? ANY ADVICE WILL HELP, THANK YOU! UPDATE

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There is no absolute black or white; just infinite shades of gray

Deffinatly not. This is usaully is the very clear sign that you are in the Friend zone. Its common knowledge. And i know this to be true because i her it all the time and its fucking annoying, i could'nt give a shite about their BF.

aww fuck, well what do I do about that? we used to date so I came at her as a "friend" so she could see I wasn't the same fucking AFC that she had dated...how do I DHV and attract (I know she thinks I'm hot, but that didn't stop her from leaving b4)???? UPDATE: I asked a girl and she said complaining about her bf is an IOI??

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There is no absolute black or white; just infinite shades of gray

Very rarely can you get out, and I dont know the answer yet bro

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AA what, Im full PUA NOW BIOTCH!!!

www.myspace.com/zheruto

Ok then, I'm gonna get out (if not with this one, someone) of the friend zone, and put the process for "getting out of the friend zone" out there for all PUA's to use.

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There is no absolute black or white; just infinite shades of gray

if it helps it can be done. i broke up with my girlfriend due to me lets say 'playing away' bad thing to do btw...
but anyway i wanted her and screwed up bad and i fell victim to her friend zone i even got the best friend shit. so i went with it until things calmed down and at which point forced a new slate. girls hav the need to be liked or usually speaking so by breaking contact they will eventually call you asking how you are and why they havn't seen you for a while. i used this to set up 'dates' though initial broadcast it as casually getting together and as i said forced the whole start again. then you just hav to rebuild the ATTRACTION. what i also did was make it clear that i was seeing other girls and used the instinct of jealousy, i mean its a lot of work but if you believe the girl is worth it then put in the effort and with a bit of luck you may win her back...
true situation for me was at a party (a mutual friends) she went with this other guy as i went with a girl i blanked the whole idea with this girl knowing her game and within a few hours she got me to herself where she decides to tell me she loves me and sorry for everything, even though i did the wrong to start with. i wouldn't call playing mind games just try and make her feel comfortable and forget everything and rebuild that attraction she originally had for you.

i dunno if my ramblin will help or not.....but if you take anything from then best of luck

On getting out; BREAK THE RAPPORT. Stop calling, be cold, distant, whatever. Don't be friends anymore, make her think "what did I do now that this guy doesn't like me anymore?"

Then, after a while, call her like nothing happened and arrange a date. Don't apologize or anything, simply call her and tell her to "meet you here and here."

On the date, act like nothing ever happened. She will again feel the comfort of your presence - but she will also be afraid not to bring it down. During this stage, start gaming her and seduce her; she will follow.

Then simply move from "friends with bonuses" to "lovers" and "in love" stage and that's it.

Carpe Diem.

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You don't know the future, you can't change the past. The only thing that matters is THE CURRENT MOMENT.

read this:

massive-bf-destroyer-tech-vt15463.html? ... =destroyer

thats how I do it, usually within a week maybe two and your good to give the call. If you want to speed it up run jealousy, have a girl on your arms whenever she sees you( outside of the arranged date and run game on girls around you on the date) and she will wonder why/how she didn't please you and make her want to succeed that much more.

edit- I can't quote

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Discipline - Dedication - Desire

I've seen so many posts from guys who are caught in the "friend-zone" I thought it was time I decifer the truth's about it. If you don't want to know what I'm about to tell you, you can stop reading now....otherwise, grab a blue-pill and lets get started.

First of all, there really is NO such thing as the "Friend-Zone"....it's an illusion. There is only ATTRACTION or LACKTHEREOF. When a woman feels no attraction for you, she places you in her friend zone. This is really just a waste station for guys she'll never date who are there for one reason, to pump up her self-esteem. What's worse, most guys who end up in the friend zone got there for the very same reason they can't get out. They either:

1. Supplicated

2. Communicated interest too early

3. OR gave away their power with little or no challenge

For lack of better words, they are by all accounts, their own worst enemy. To add to the madness, their plan for getting out of the friend zone, like most AFC's, is to repeat these 3 EXACT SAME mistakes with 10X the might!! Ironically, this is what inevitably seals their fate....and dooms them to a lifetime of platonic friendship with the woman they desire.

Is there a way out? Fortunately, the answer is yes. But just as unfortunately, most guys caught in the Friend Zone can't see past their own "one-itis" long enough to understand what it takes to get out. They're too busy dealing with their own counter-productive thoughts and idea's of wanting to please her and buy her gifts, send her emails, roses, and other useless attempts to "win" her affection. This is NOT the way you build attraction btw.....whether you're in the Friend Zone or not....but ESPECIALLY if you're in the Friend Zone. Newsflash: The reason why you're in the Friend Zone in the first place is because she feels NO attraction for you. So in order to get OUT of the Friend Zone she actually has to FEEL attraction for you. Wow, how's that for a concept! Finally some logic when it comes to women.

So how do you get her to feel attraction for you? Hmmmmm....this is a question I'll pose back at you. How do you get a COMPLETE STRANGER to feel attraction for you? Could it possibly be the same as working normal game? WHOA, we're 2 for 2 today. You're absolutely right Einstein....you work your game like you would ANY other set....the only difference is, now that you've fucked up and put yourself in the Friend Zone, you'll have to work a little harder to get yourself out. Which means you'll be parading other women in front of her, making plans with her, then flaking on her, because you forgot you had plans with the other women in your life that DON'T put you in the Friend Zone. And most importantly, you will STOP doing what you did to put yourself there in the first place. Which means, no more supplicating, no more poems, and no more emails....until she has EARNED it. I know this sounds hard, no longer handing over all your power, money and poems to the woman you desire, hoping you can win her affection this way, but if you quiz the last 100,000 guys who've taken this road, which they repave every 6 weeks for the next 100,000 guys, you'll find you have 2 things in common....1) You're still in the Friend Zone and 2) You're still looking for a way out.

Now that we've debunked the myths of the Friend Zone, let's take a look at some of the positive aspects of being in the Friend Zone, from a PUA standpoint of course, where you can use it to your benefit.

In advanced game, being in the Friend Zone is not always a bad thing, contrary to popular belief. There are times when I will strategically PLACE myself in the Friend Zone purposely, in order to become part of her life....then, work my game from INSIDE the Castle. Of course, this is a set up from the start....this is usually with a woman who has a boyfriend or is in a serious relationship already, and the ONLY way IN is through the Friend Zone. But again, it's just another illusion...as I've mentioned before, there IS no Friend Zone...only Attraction OR Lackthereof. So when she ACCEPTS my request to be just a "friend", knowing she has a boyfriend, it is actually an IOI....she's interested. And placing me in her imaginary Friend Zone is just another way of making her feel less guilty about what she's about to do. Don't get me wrong, like all females, she does have a Friend Zone, and it consists of lots of guys, or prisoners I should say....the only difference is I am the exception. I will appear to LOOK like everyone else, at least from the outside looking in....but there is a MAJOR hidden agenda that separates me from ALL the other inmates serving life terms. I am getting out, THEY are not.

This is one of the rare times being in the Friend Zone is actually a plus, instead of a minus. So what have we learned from all this? Let's sum it up. First, we've learned the Friend Zone is nothing more than an illusion. It doesn't exist. Second, the reason you got there is rediculously the same reason you can't get out. And third, being in the Friend Zone is not always a bad thing. Especially when it's the ONLY way in. Questions?? Comments??

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If your on the east coast let me know maybe we can meet up and sarge .

None. *claps*

Brilliant. I joined up just to say thanks for your words. It's exactly what I needed to hear right now as re-assurance.

I agree, thank you

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There is no absolute black or white; just infinite shades of gray

im gonna have to say that this is a difficult situation and words are only going to put you deeper into the friend zone. what you need to do is make it look like you don't need her. talk about going out with different girls, don't return her phone calls for days, do things that make it look like she needs you. the hardest part about the game is making it look like you aren't trying, when infact you are.

Yehh the friend zone sucks.
Also body language is a big part of this one. Lean forward on your stool and put your thumbs in your front pockets, but at the top of the pocket as this shows an in control pose. She'll notice this and start to rethink her catergorising you.

Worked for me. Hope it helps.

Another good way is to take her out as a pivot, building jealosy plotlines w/ other girls, that kind of shit. After seeing how much these other girls want you the pre-selection cycle starts to feed itself and suddenly she's drooling. Even if not, she's still helped you hook up with all these other girls, so how do you lose?