Here we disagree. Again because I don't accept "shit tests" as scientific fact. And this concept can be misleading, very thin ice. It rationalizes her bad actions(basically giving you crap), and you just encourage her to get away with them and repeat. If you look at this as some kind of 'tests', OK, its bad again. Any tests should be passed and over by the time you two enter truly exclusive relationship. If she pushes any testing repeatedly, then she must be uncertain if she likes you enough, and if uncertainty overweights her desire/interest, then she will not be able to control what she says or does, so that's JUST BAD. Unless you acted long enough to be something you aren't and now you turned 180 degrees, you will still be the guy she choosed and thankful for it. Thus she won't like the idea of pushing you to limits where she might begin loosing you, basically giving you temptation. To any sane, intelligent person these things are obvious, no constant tests required.

The other way around, would you test your girlfriend if she'll cheat on you, furthermore providing her temptations? Test her jealousy? Anger? Integrity? It will be more or less known, obvious by behaviour. If they are not some lesser beings than us, men, they are consciously aware of the fact that if you provoke some reactions, you might just get them. Purpose is to blatantly make me jealous? Hell, I'll be jealous, there's nothing alpha about suppressing one's reactions when they're called for, but if she wants me jealous - she's digging a rabbit hole - woman with decent brains must be aware of that.

I've seen what this does to guys who naivly buy the concept. When their girlfriends do something disrespectful, even with cheating-alarm ringing, they don't know what else to do, so they WISH it's a shit test, but it's not. Red flag, time to wake up, yes.

I wouldn't want to go further here, this is not simple topic.

But if we go by this theory, mentioning other men are hot, celebrity or not, can be called a test for jealousy. She does it so regularly now and then, that she came to conclusion herself "I should talk like this with my girl friend"; "but this", "but that"... At first I always just joked or brushed it off, no problem. But why would I listen about other men being hot, and look at their google pictures? What does she want me to say every time? I could've talk about hot women, but I kept my mouth shut. Oh, I guess she probably has eyes elsewhere when it comes to attraction ideals.
I mean subtly needy. She's just OK with everything I do, and probably starts to take me for granted. I suppose she wouldn't give a flying fuck in situations where other girls with their boyfriends get at least a bit insecure. I've never heard of a girl who isn't insecure and doesn't ask some questions. For example if I was going out on weekend, she won't even try to ask me how it was. Her female friend is currently madly jealous in her RS, and a little bit neurotic/too needy/projecting her misbehaviour, yes, but she actually asked my GF how can she be so cold about me when we're apart. This means my GF is stable for healthy relationship with trust, no constant checking out, or that she needs someone better to become like that. Most girls experience neediness when they find a guy they're crazy about.

There are no qualifications from her anymore, just the opposite. For example, I have one major problem now:

She can act silly. I mean childish silly, over-playful, mimicking cat sounds, so much lately that she admitted it's fun to annoy me sometimes. I don't know if its out of boredom moments, or what, but its getting over the top. She'll become self-conscious to admit she's 'terrible', 'crazy', jokes I'm gonna loose my nerve with her, and so on, but keeps doing it. What the fuck is that all about? Is this so called shit test then, to see how much of her silliness I can take?

Well, there were all kinds of excuses, believeable at first. I think she now prefers that we can't do it more often, or just got used its weekend routine. In beginning she would even admit being horny in text, so it worked perfectly. Now this is completely gone, and if I do it, its taken for granted, there are no responses to hint we're gonna do it as soon as possible, like she used to give.

Today we teased a little, in a bar. I can hardly control my attraction. She joked how I won't get more right now, not enough alcohol to, blah blah, quote, "use" her, and as I didn't when we first met, I won't now.

But I really did notice she's far more open when drinking. She gave me half-public blowjob outside at one such occassion. Now in normal situations we almost never start sex by casual initiation, its got to be something playful, like strip-poker to give an example. But now onto that:

No, it was neither wrong or correct answer, it was fast, what else could I say when she reacted like she doesn't know what I'm doing after letting me run my hand over her ass for almost a minute. You see, that's the problem how she learned to turn me down, its not that she won't become horny, I can tell and she's probably already wet, but its more of an LMR at some points, and she'll cunningly pretend like she didn't get it, or become 'silly' as I described. I must say LMR is also the reason why I had to wait for sex 1-2 months into dating stage. Making out, taking upper cloths off, rubbing through pants, intense horniness, but resistance when I attempted to go down. Suffered blue balls like idiot.

That I can respect when we were new to each other, though stranger took her virginity in one night, but not for a long-term girlfriend to leave me horny as hell when SHE KNOWS I AM, and pretends like nothing happens.

And our sex was full of variety. The only thing she finally complained about is that I can last very long, so we can try quick in a row, thus we did and she liked it. Thats the point, girl has to express herself and co-operate, I hate the idea that you must do all kinds of magic, read her mind, without any effort from her side. I mostly lead and I PRACTICE VARIETY, but she's weird and nothing makes sense. Once she used the excuse for "not enough time" that she doesn't like quick, and wants slow, now she likes quick. Once she liked when I led us to all kinds of kinky positions, said that it was great and it would get boring in bed always, now recently when I was doing her from behind/doggy, she acted discomfortably and later explained she prefers to look me into the eyes with emotional approach rather.

I mentioned "caveman" style yesterday, and answer was how she would prefer it sometimes, but I purely doubt it.

Yes, we made out like crazy instantly at the door, again she was horny, but my hands going vulgarly down felt unwelcome there, then I fastly took her to bed with all the clothes on, proceeding, I bet she was dripping wet, but she managed to slow down and distract us, "wow, we're still wearing sneakers", and at this point it was hopeless. Not that we never fucked like that, oh we did, but no matter what I do now, she'll sometimes be very good at stopping to go all the way.

She joked that I'm easy to get horny. And what does that make her, if she supposedly loves me and wants me? A fucking universal mystery?

So to repeat shortly, if I have to game hard all the time, read mind, be a sex god, and use professional psychology in order to get regular sex which is otherwise mutually good when happens, from long-term GF, then I'm not sure where this leaves me...
It takes two to tango.
She has to show some attraction to me physically, my body, not that I have to play math and physics in order to have unrestrained sex in couple of first months
Exactly. But who's to blame?



Again, all this mess, while she gave her fucking virginity in ONS, and blowed some stranger the same night.

Hey Stephen B, good you started a new thread. If you want, you should write everything about your situation and just deal with everything bothering you here. For example, you once mentioned that you weren't as good looking as her and that she is much younger. That's important. IMO, the whole telling you about other guys, not seeming jealous and the sex decline, signals she's not that attracted to you.Honest question, could you do better than her? If not, she knows this. Have you had gfs before? Do you buy her things? Does she do anything that shows she cares about you?
I've heard this before but never come across this in any relationship. Can you give examples? I feel like shit test is a misused blanket term but I'm just curious that maybe I've missed something that girls do.

I'm in Neo's camp on this. Never dealt with shit tests in a relationship. Game, early stages before you are committed to each other, yes. But in a relationship, not much at all. But I have mostly dated good girls, and I think shit tests are not a trait of most good girls when they are in a relationship and getting what they want and need from it.

She once suddenly admitted that she doesn't consider herself hot. Which surprised me. Her naive opinion is all men must admire the likes of Megan Fox, so when it comes to aesthetics, she joked how I have weird criteria by considering her perfectly fit. I also reinforced idea how all women dig jerks and muscular men, in order for her to try to deny it, and point other characteristics. Its not that she doesn't give me compliments, its about her admiring certain manly appearance since before we met, but obviously she didn't stop expressing it now that she's with me, and would end up saying that looks are last important - obviously a lie if she can't control herself to drool over some celebrity's outlook.

I don't know if I could do better or not, I had many girlfriends, while she didn't even have one official date with anyone before relationship with me, except some short making outs and one sexual experience in her past you already know about.

She shows much care, and sometimes expresses fire and flames, however many things point she doesn't know better yet, and maybe with someone better looking she would beg for sex, but no way she'll admit it in order not to compromise what she has with me at the moment. Or she's bipolar. Or inhibited. Immature. I can't know.

We're going long-distance by the end of the month. Then to only meet every other weekend, and holidays. And contrary to LDR stigma, I think this is not bad at all. Though she claims she'll miss me, sometimes I think I'm too available for her, now that honeymoon is definitely over.

Well another possibility is, she's 18...so most likely immature. Women tend to be shallower and more into looks and who's famous at that age.While I won't say its a good idea to LDR a 18 yr old, its a possibility she may just be immature and says stupid stuff.

Something like that.

Maybe I've become too avalable and she wants to play mind games, like we did when she used to ask me 3 days before when do we see each other. Now 3 days can pass easily without any signs of missing me.
We're left with only 10 more days before she goes to college/LDR, so I hate if I have to pull this shit right now, it will be like that for next 3 years. And I don't like to fake, if I'm genuinely busy then I'm busy, also if I can make time, then I don't supress not to see her. But if I have to... well. It just doesn't make sense because without weekends, last few weeks it would look like we do coffee dates or taking a walks, instead of an almost 1yr relationship. Its tricky when you always have to make ideas and lead. She suggested something for today, but I think about refusing it.

Stephen I am sorry to steal the spotlight, but I need to hear Neo's opinion, as I've heard he is one of the experts. I am in a similar situation as Stephen, with a little bit of differences. We have been in a relationship for 1 year, I am 21 and she is 22, and we live together. In the beginning she was super needy, insecure, and jealous, and now she is completely the opposite, never showing signs of neediness, never qualifying, and taking me for granted. We have a 3 months dry spell, but my situation is worse than Stephen because I dont think she is even turned on by me any more.

But in terms of relationship power, she is the one holding on to me, and I am the one who is about to leave and break up most of the time. And she is the one who always rolls over in fights and problems, and she says she loves me to bits, and she does show it, but in a cute way, not in the seductive way I hope for ... She is quite good looking, but so am I, and she used to think I am too good for her, and that I can do better than her, which is probably true. Bottom line is, I feel like its time to for us to part ways, because like I sad, it feels she is not interested, never making out, never having sex... Oh yes and one more thing, the last time I broke up, the only reason I changed my mind is because she threatened to kill herself, as we were outside, and I ran after her to make sure she doesnt do it, because I wouldnt rule out the possibility completely... (long story, the relationship is full of drama). What do you thing Neo (and the other experts), should I end it?

Oh, btw, it's the same as someone wrote about in another thread that I've just read. She'll get very horny when we can't do it. For example, menstruation, or often any situation where we can't easily have sex.

Hello, no problem, I'd like this topic to serve this type of discussion. Well, we can't know whose situation is 'worse', because we are talking about negative/problematic sides of relationship, so we can't see the whole picture including positives.

Some things are exactly the same, you say she shows love and affection, but will rarely ever show pure desire to match it. Same here. I've seen these complains on girlfriends a lot, so its not unusual in most relationships, people claim girls don't get horny like we do, but it is hard to decide whether we're constantly needy and pushing easily, or they're not interested enough, I know. Otherwise, I don't know how 5+ year relationship work, I doubt it's constant symbiosis per 100%, but the fact is we feel it's is too early to have doubts about girlfriend's attraction.

Okay... How should I put this. First I want to make a point about women testing you in relationships.

First of all, they are not fully aware of doing it, so they can't really even control this.

Secondly, these are not even remotely similar to the shit tests you get when you're trying to pick a woman up.

I should have mentioned probably earlier, but these tests are always there, however rare when the relationship is healthy. When she feels(might not even be conscious about it) that something is wrong, the frequency of these tests will grow.

Giving you blue balls is classic example.

Also, you need to be very careful with punishing these kinds of bad behaviours. I will explain...

You see, women's emotional state are more often than not quite unstable, and basically everything affects it. The weather, their cycle, that she saw a very pretty girl she's jealous of, that she felt cold during the night, that a black cat ran in front of her across the street... Just... Everything.

Now it happens, that she has some frustrated days because of these things, and she might do somethings you wouldn't like. Now if you punish your girl for this at that moment, she will feel that you don't understand her. Probably what she did was just a cry for a little comfort, put in a way that you didn't recognize, and you doing the opposite will not help at all. You should always try to be aware of your girl's emotional state. And comfort her when she needs it. Later, you can bring up that what she did made you feel bad. A good girlfriend will apologize.

It took me years to figure this out. But it works like magic.

Of course, if you're pretty sure she's just trying to fool around, and in fact nothing is wrong, she just felt like busting your balls, then yes, you should punish this kind of behaviour immediately.


Now, about your problems...

There's a main problem here, that because of this lack of sex thing you're getting insecure. I don't how much insecure behaviour you're expressing, but it will come sooner or later anyway as it is there on the inside already:
You're making this looks and sex thing such a big issue, that is very irrational. You sure have inner game problems. And while you shouldn't "Game" your girlfriend, but you just have to keep your inner game, because you're basically not even a man without it.
You have no idea... Many many guys get so needy in relationships over time that the girl can not help but test them, and they fail miserably, and then they don't get the problem and instead of proper communication and getting their shit together they start acting all butthurt for what is basically their fault, and then the relationship ends in a trainwreck. Just in these forums I have come across at least 15 threads where this was the issue.

About all the other things you mentioned. Her talking about hot actors and making silly sounds and all the other shit... It just shows that she's very immature. If a mature woman wants to test your jealousy, she will go dancing with some guy friends and make sure you know about it.

I'd say even the sex part is partially because of that. At least that's if you're hundred percent sure that she's horny and turning you down regardless. Or... she really might be bipolar. I'm very sorry but I can't really give you any useful advice, except my perception on the situation. This is over my limits, and I don't want to seem like it isn't and come up with some stupid ideas on what to do with this one. So many problems here that are making this way too complex .

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Stephen what are you are saying makes sense, but the thing is, I actually keep getting less and less needy as the relationship progresses, and not the other way around. I am not a needy person, but I say less and less needy because there is always a bit of neediness in each person, it just comes with nature...

I think instinct's last point might hold the solution in it.. I mean with my girlfriend, her loving me and always rolling over and trying to keep me in the relationship, and at the same time the dry spell.. Its because she has Borderline Personality disorder... most probably thats the reason, but of course I am not sure...

Yes, she can be. I'd just leave it at that, but I've recognized her intelligence as well, she's more stable than any girl before in many regards, so it's a question why she chooses to be silly around me. Probably too secure she has me by the balls.
Yeah, she'll draw the line about such things, and I haven't had one single problem about this yet. However, I do wonder what will happen if she goes out clubbing. Because she never does, not dancing clubs, she doesn't like it, but her female friends attempt to talk her into it occasionally, then she makes up excuses instead of saying plain "no" backed up with reason(not a good sign of character). I'm sure I've told her in-between the lines that I consider clubbing as meat market, and place for single people, even going once is a red flag to me. I know what happens there. She'll get hit on and then complain how creepy guys were bothering her. But she was almost going last time, like to get rid of her friend's wish "once in a year". Also she used the word "clubbing", as she was throwing it at me, and didn't hear what I was saying about it.

Yes, maybe I can't relax, and she feels it instinctively, maybe the problem is her and she has some issues. Very complex.

I doubted Bipolar, or something like that, and she easily joked about having it. I also can't be sure, but not liking the idea for a tiny bit.

Oh no Stephen, thats not what I meant. She does have borderline personality disorder, I know that for a fact, she is diagnosed. I meant I am not sure if the disorder is the reason behind her behavior....

I know, but I don't have experience with medically proven psychological disorder in girls, so I'm not sure how to deal with it or relate behaviours. However, its easier when you know it, and I don't. Its only an attempt to explain her specific behaviour as bipolar in my case, but I wouldn't be 100% correct. Its pain in the ass to be therapist.

But I've got suggestion about solution to any of this. I will try to let her act however she wants. No sex and no explanation why, OK. Enjoy masturbating. Shady behaviour, OK. Don't want to communicate a problem, OK. Break some boundaries we agreed on, and leave evidence, OUT, I'm doing disappearing act.

I don't see any other way. You are not her father, leader, therapist, emotional fix, or female friend. If she's happy in self-deception about "relationship", good. Let her be until she breaks, then you'll know. At least you were the one clear-headed, you don't enter LTR with girl you aren't attracted to. Also, if she couldn't care less whether you're gonna get it somewhere else if she doesn't provide it as a girlfriend, then go get it somewhere else, no damage done except broken ego maybe, but she was playing with yours, so its like stealing a toy from a child, no big deal. Does that sound reasonable?

One more question. How did you two end up together? In my case, she seeked me first, despite having other choices, and then we started dating, so at least she had to be attracted then, but she made me wait for first sex, while she gave her virginity easily and nasty prior to meeting me. Thats my main problem.