Went out to practiced earlier on in a bar and it was the first time I attempted a blew out set (Basically entering a set with the intention of failing) and something ironic happened but I'll get into that later.

Here's the main point. So far into my PUA journey I always thought opinion openers are the best way to approach, as they're nonthreatening and allow you to reach hook point a lot easier. But tonight proved to me why opinion openers are absolute shit.

I tried using it earlier tonight and I got totally shot down. I opened with "Can I get you guys' opinion on something? My friends and I can't seem to agree on this (root), but what is the definition of cheating?" Furthermore I did body-rocking for FTC. I was really confident in my approach and thinking back, I approached pretty well. What happened was that the girl in the set gave me this "Why is he asking such a question look?" and turned their back on me, while the guy looked at me and said "Dude that is such a bad pickup line..." Thankfully I managed to save some of my dignity by saying my friend asked me to try this pickup line up, and I will tell him that it sucks.

Not only this time, but there are several other times I attempted opinion openers and I get the same "Why are you asking me this?" look. Thinking back, opinion opener have never gotten me anywhere except a decent conversation at best.

Here's the ironic thing that happened when I did a blew up set. After being devastated after being shot down, I thought I got nothing to lose and approached a set with the intention to fail. I walked up to a 2 set, approach my target from behind, place my hand on her back and said a very cheesy pickup line, "Hey are you religious?? Because you're the answer to my prayer." What I totally didn't expect was that I got a POSITIVE response; the target look at me and said "Aww..." and I managed to introduced myself. However as I was in total shock I ejected the set soon after introducing myself as my mind short-circuited. If only I carried on and talked to them I might have succeeded.

She was giving me IOIs; her body didn't back away when I placed my hand on her back and said the cheesy pickup line, besides she was obviously desiring to carry on talking to me. I think the good thing I did was that I approach with a really playful and confident vibe, and she can tell I'm using the cheesy pickup line in a joking manner like I'm mocking it.

I mean so far in my experience, approaching with a simple "Hey what's up? How's everyone going?" is so much better. However I would give opinion openers some credit though, it allowed me to overcome approach anxiety. I think I will be dropping opinion openers completely.

_________________
You only have 2 choices; either you cry and accept who you are, or get your ass out there and try to change yourself.

times are changing , with movies and the internet women are starting to see through the BS lol

Maybe using the universal approach isnt so bad

hahaha I definitely agree with you. After that ironic blew up set approach I made, I felt a lot more confident in direct approaches in bars and nightclubs. They're not as terrifying as they seem.

Maybe I should go something like "I'm so gonna give you a hug *give her a hug* because you're so soft and cuddly (neg intended)... and of course adorable" or "Hi, just gotta tell you this, you have a very seductive smile that's driving me crazy (or any other genuine compliment) but don't get any ideas, let's get to know each first "

_________________
You only have 2 choices; either you cry and accept who you are, or get your ass out there and try to change yourself.

Depends how you use them. I use opinion openers out in the beer garden/smoking area where people are more prone to talk and want to speak their mind. Inside it's kind of loud for that and there's too many distractions. I always get opinions and a proper conversation out of it. Never really had a bad opener with it or a "Why is he asking us this" look.

I've gone off opinion openers myself actually. I just can't naturally move from an opinion opener to mid-game. I find it hard to control the flow after an opinion opener. Tried a direct opener and it worked well enough. Mate was hammered but still had fun. Didn't get a negative response, more a "This guy needs to prove himself" look then my mate said something bad. They looked to me said what had happened, obviously wanting me to stop them but I just let them walk away, I wasn't in the set for a close.

First of all, I do not understand this whole thing about going into a set with the mindset or intent on failing. This is fucking retarded. You will fail enough as it is, why would you purposefully try to fail? I actually like opinion openers but at the end of the day I think what you will realize is that HOW you deliver opener is the most important thing.

_________________
http://www.joshsway.com -- dating, online dating, fitness, fashion, and more...

How is it retarded? Maybe for a PUA it is but PUA in training? Nah, it's all psychological and a way to save face telling yourself you're going in to fail anyway. Builds up your confidence and allows you to become comfortable with your opener or mid-game. Plus there's next to no pressure if you don't want to take it anywhere specifically. Also, there's the fact that if it does go well you can change your game plan in the set and move for a close.

No pressure.
You get practice.
If you fail horribly you don't take it personally.

Have a look at this: http://www.pualingo.com/pua-definitions ... ut-opener/

Deliberately failing is a great way to over the fear of rejection, and seeing how getting rejected is no big deal. And besides it gave me a major boost in confidence in doing direct approaches. So what's so bad about that?

And you're right, it's the delivery that matters, not the content. I think whole reason opinion openers did not work for me is because of the lack of congruency with my character. There I am being smiley, playful and full of swagger; when all of a sudden I approach with such an out-of-character opinion opener. Now I see why that's not going to work. A more playful opener would have worked so much better.

_________________
You only have 2 choices; either you cry and accept who you are, or get your ass out there and try to change yourself.

It's always the way that you open.
I personally use anything near her or what she's wearing as a comment and carry from there, and it always seems to work.

I personally also barely use any opinion openers, but they can be used in a special way if you arrange a really good question like a situation you faced with a girl that was horrible and ask her for advice. Don't ask questions like "define this" and define that, they are boring and awkward.

2 points.

A) I have never had a problem with female opinion openers. Especially for a cold approach. If Im already getting IOI's, I will just go up and introduce myself and probably use a cheesy line. But for a cold approach or 2+ set, I believe in opinion openers all the way.

Its the delivery that matters not the opening line. Im guessing there was something about you that made them uneasy. What was different in your mindset before and after you delivered that opener?

B) The opener you state. There is no reason for it. It does seem like a random question. I sometimes use "Does this T-Shirt make me look gay. BUT I root it FTC it and I give a reason. Hey guys, quick question before I go to the bar. Does this T-Shirt make me look gay, because.....[insert scenario here].

Finally, the mindset for failure. I do it myself. I don't actually intend on failing. I just tell myself Im probably gonna crash and burn so I don't go in with hopes raised. However it dosnt lower my state it just keeps it neutral. Make me non outcome dependednt. Hope that makes sense.

Logically, what is the benefit of trying to fail versus trying to succeed if you end up failing? No positive. You might as well try to succeed. The real reason people do this whole "try to fail" is because they are simply reinforcing their fear of failure: You do not want to approach trying to succeed because if you fail it hurts much less than if you failed because "you tried". I'm glad it gives some guys a major boost of confidence; I just think trying and failing is even better and once you over come that, you will get where you need to be much quicker.

_________________
http://www.joshsway.com -- dating, online dating, fitness, fashion, and more...

The whole psychology behind opinion openers is beta as fuck. It's for guys who are afraid of rejection so they can save face and pretend the approach wasnt sexually motivated if it fails. Women like balls, they like a guy who doesn't give a fuck if the girl likes him or not, who makes it clear with body language, manner and attitude that he is attractive, assumes she finds him attractive and is flirtatious right off the bat. Sure, opinion openers are better than not approaching at all, but why give yourself the problem of having to transition from friendly/social to sexual when you can go direct and save time? You don't need to announce you like the girl directly, just sub-communicate it with body language, touch, eye contact, lead her etc.

Maybe because not everyone has been born with the self-confidence it requires to do what you say successfully. I don't like opinion openers very much either, but I think it's a good choice for beginners who haven't got over their AA yet.

You are absolutely right, but only if your purpose of approaching is to cure your AA. My purpose of approaching is to make out with the girl then have sex with her, not build my confidence, although perhaps confidence is a by-product of previous failure and success.

If you don't have that confidence to approach women naturally, you won't have the confidence to dominate her in the bedroom. If you're that shy you're better off learning social skills with men, public speaking, karaoke, building a business, etc. Then you can seduce women in the way they want to seduced, in the way they DREAM about being seduced, literally swept off their feet by a knight in shining armour who makes them weak at the knees and wet in their panties.

No woman dreams about being seduced with a personality test.

OK I have been giving this thought through out the day. As its been nagging me. I always tell people Im gonna crash and burn, yet I dont truley believe it. Every time I had an exam I told people I was gonna fail miserably when I did my CISCO course, but I normally scored pretty high.

Its actually got nothing to do with me believeing Im gonna fail. Its too take the pressure off. If I tell someone Im gonna be awsome, Im bragging, then there is gonna be pressure on me which probably will cause me to fail. Yet I tell someone Im gonna crash and burn, I set no expectations.

A) You can subcommunicate that anyway just by standing there, Ive only done this once or twice., Then the girl approaches you and you dont really have to open. The intent is already there. Or she gives you an IOI, normally gazing at you and smiling. Then you can go and be direct.

B) HOWEVER, cold approaches on 2 sets or higher. I will not go direct. Especially if its an even bigger set.

Also Im one of those guys who always gets told I appear to be one of the quiet ones, but really Im not, Im a cunning bastard. So I use that to my advantage. Under the RAdar, plop. Then DHV, DHV, DHV. And dont show any interest until she has. Hence point A) above.

Also Ive opened a set before. The girl I was originally interested in was out on her hen do. I didnt know one of the women there was her mother. If Id of been direct, that would of been messy. However as it panned out. The mother spent the night trying to latch onto me.