This is a boring story about what I'm calling "Alpha Rot". If the phrase catches on, I want royalties...

Situation: LTR for 5 years. I went into the relationship a pretty happy, confident guy. No shortage of choice etc. I never did the full PUA thing, but I used to love going out on the town and I rarely had a disappointing night. But was equally happy to be monogamous and enjoy a full relationship when the time came.

Now, my problem is that over time I've turned into a pathetic needy sub-beta (let's say - a delta). The root cause was children. She has four (all boys!) but they're great and we get on well. I've played it slowly but now they look up to me.

Actually, the problem isn't the children, it's the "orbiters-with-kids".

About 2 years ago, she acquired a few orbiters. She's always been sociable and always had people dropping in which was fine, but these new ones were guys on the prowl. Newly divorced, miserable in bedsits and looking for some sympathetic pussy. So I had them hanging around the house, taking her and the kids out on activities. I wouldn't normally have a problem with this, these guys are either losers or lost sheep types (she likes being seen to be a miss fixit-agony aunt) and I know I'm way above their league in almost all respects. If she DID bang any of them I'd fire her immediately, there would be no hope!

But - here's the problem - the orbiters have kids as well, and she started showing signs that she was getting attracted to the idea of a guy who already has kids. Maybe not the current set of losers, but like a number 10 bus, there will be another one along in a minute.

The old me would have dealt with this kind of behaviour in the normal way. But somehow since it was related to them having kids and me not - my number 1 weak spot, "new-Delta" me got whiny and needy. I didn't even see it happening, but I started with the controlling behaviour, the passive-aggressive wise cracks and all the rest of it. Just think how bad it makes it that at least one of these guys is a total car crash of a man (think of a lonely tosser in shitty digs in dirty y-fronts, and you're not far off). How pathetic do you have to be to be jealous of that!!

Anyway, there was a flashpoint while she was away on a course. She got involved with someone, a sugar daddy type - and she says nothing happened, he was just a kind 'gentleman' who helped her out (she needed somewhere to stay and he put her up in house rent free for a week (literally minutes after meeting him) - with nothing expected in return ). I'm 95% certain that nothing did happen because she can't hold a secret in (really), but of course he wanted to get his hole I got fed up and ended the relationship. Perhaps that was another beta act, but it wasn't to punish her or to make a point, but because I really felt that I'd completely lost any respect or self respect in the relationship.

I'm starting dating again. Enjoying it but sad to have given her the boot. But of course she's now going crazy. After a few days of angry texts (ignored), next came the sorrowful texts (also ignored) and now of course she wants to get back together. The last thing is she turned up at my work and pretty much begged to get back. (Bit embarrassing, I'm supposed to be the boss there, I think everyone found it hil-fucking-larious!)

The great thing is that the time away has made me wake up and realise what a total fucking dweeb I've been, and from this second on it won't be happening anymore in any future relationship.

But it would be easy to go back to LTR. So - do I go back to this relationship OR carry on with the dating? We do love and care for each other, it's just the relationship that's fucked up. I suspect that my status has been eroded so far that there's no chance of me ever restoring it again (even though she wants me back, once we're back it will be square one again and she'll remember what I was like last time)

I'm thinking that even if I take her back, that will give her the unconscious message that she can do what the fuck she likes as many times as she likes and I'll always go back for more. And that it's too late now to relax and get back to my old non controlling self (with this relationship). I certainly won't go back to her if it means becoming whiny-delta-man again. I like being the old me again!

I'm thinking I may have to cut my losses, learn from my mistakes, move on, man up and get back the style I used to have. And to be careful not to let what I'm now calling "Alpha Rot" set in again in the future.

But it's sad to lose so much. Is there something I can do to restore lost ground, the lost esteem, and get the relationship going again? I would miss the kids, and most of the time she's great. But she does behave like she's the centre of the universe.

Is there already a term for Alpha Rot? If not, you heard it here first, if you didn't fall asleep after the first two paragraphs

I refer to this as the "Betaization Process" (credit - Franco): The subconscious process by which women get their boyfriends to give up their alpha-guy lifestyles until the guys are completely whipped.

It's more or less the same thing you are talking about. Once you give up your power in a relationship, it's extremely hard to get it back.

Further reading: http://www.personalpowermeditation.com/ ... n-process/

-Wolf

_________________
Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html

Booo, I'd hoped I'd coined a term there!

You're right though, it sounds about right. Need to read the link in depth, but thanks, great info.

Edit to add, yep it's bang on the money.

Quote: "Gamble: None, you're fucked. All you can do is fight her attempts to disrespect you, in an effort to slow down their increase in severity."

Plus I get why my term sucks. Alpha rot suggests a passive, almost natural process (like dry rot or gut rot) - Betaization sounds much more of an active process.

how can i decide for you?
do I go back to this relationship OR carry on with the dating?

i don’t know. is there? what do you think?
Is there something I can do to restore lost ground, the lost esteem, and get the relationship going again?

i dont think ive heared one. i don’t even know what that means.
Is there already a term for Alpha Rot?

Yeah, betaization, did you not read woolfwood's post above? Thanks for your very valuable contribution anyway

ye i read it.
did you not read woolfwood's post above?

I feel bad for you if you actually believe in this stuff.

So long as you create strong boundaries for yourself (and the kind of behavior you'll tolerate), its quite possible she's matured enough to be able to give you the healthy relationship you want. This will all be contingent, of course, on how diligent you are with holding the frame/maintaining those boundaries of what you will and will not tolerate.

I cringe every time I see you posting in a discussion I'm in. If you're not going to say something constructive, then kindly STFU.

-Wolf

_________________
Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html

In the past 10 months I've been in a LTR whilst you've been on here finding ways of getting a date with a woman.

10 months? That's cute. I'll be celebrating my 3 year anniversary with my girlfriend at the end of August. We just started shopping around for engagement rings. You were right about one thing, however. My girlfriend and I are both happily non-monogamous so, yes, I DO read the forums with the intention of finding ways to meet more women.

As an aside, I don't actually ask for advice or post about my personal life on this forum. I'm primarily here to help others. When I have issues, I post on Sedfast.

-Wolf

_________________
Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html

Thanks for the info guys all very useful. No need for fighting!

Be carfeful, 10 months is nothing. It was well past that stage that I was plummeting down the curve. It's easy to think it doesn't exist until you're in terminal free fall!

Of course all of the theory in the betaization links is not scientifically tested, so it could be bollocks. But it certainly stacks up with all my previous relationships (3 proper long term 3years +) and they all ended with the "why aren't you the funny guy I first met anymore?"

So I'm inclined to believe the theory - one thing I haven't seen in any detail is why it's impossible to get back once you're on the curve. I can see its hard, but why impossible?