So I've been at this pickup game for 2 years now, and I've made good progress in some areas - confidence approaching and escalating and I've had some decent success.

But one area is holding me back big time - conversation. My conversation skills were always fairly poor... my conversations were awkward, boring, slow, filled with silences, and they still are.

I was told early on in my pickup journey by many people that experience would make me better at conversing, but it hasn't.

It feels like when I'm in a conversation, my brain is small and foggy and I have few ideas. I can rarely think of anything other than a logical follow on from the previous thing said and it makes the conversation boring.

I see people who can really captivate an audience, entertain them and make people laugh. But that is not me. It's just boring boring boring. It seems like other folks get ideas for things to talk about in conversation - funny things, changes of subject, that just don't occur to me.

I'm starting to wonder if I can really improve at this. Are some people's brains just not wired up to be good at interpersonal skills like this? I work in a logical job and I wonder if my brain is just logical and not very creative, and also very slow at reacting, and will always bee that way.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is there anyone like me who has been able to improve and break out of the way they used to be and become more interesting.

Give an example of a typical conversation you would have...

Thanks for getting back to me. I would say my conversations are dull and awkward mostly. Something like: the other person takes control, and I just advance the conversation a little bit. It doesn't have that added spice, banter, humour, interesting things.

If you can picture two guys in grey suits standing in the elevator, saying:
"It looks like rain today"
silence
"Yep its not good"
"Good job I brought my umbrella"
silence
"Oh I see you read this newspaper, do you like it?"
"Yeah its good"

Ok, I'm not quite that bad, but not far off it. You get the picture. Unless I'm well prepped with pre-prepared material, there is nothing there in my mind.

But yet I see other people, most other people, even AFCs, be interesting, humourous, etc.

I just wonder if my brain is just not wired up for that. It's like it can't make the jump to something interesting/new/humourous. When I think of something funny that has people rolling around laughing, it's like it makes my week!

I'd like to know if there is a way to change so I can expand my creative potential and be able to do this.

Are you sure your not a robot ?

I would say they are dull too. Honestly man, start going out and doing more interesting shit. Be an interesting person to talk to.

I tell you what mate.

You get lost because you approach a girl and don't say what you want. Why do you talk to the girl ? I'm sure it's not because of the weather. Tell her. Be straight. That is very simple, don't have to think a lot.

If you like the way she looks tell her you think she's cute. You have nothing to say ? Don't say anything. Stand there. It will be awkward ? If it is just say that it's awkward with a smile. She will start talking to you because girls don't like silence.

Anyway I think the reason your conversations are boring is that you don't say what you want but more like scripted conversation which you think is socially acceptable and safe. Take a risk. Good luck

You aren't the only one Prometheus, right now conversing is one of my sticking point and I am actively trying to work on it. Like how to start a conversation, keep the conversation going and steering topics into an interesting and constructive one. Conversing is an art is its own right. My biggest problem is taking control of the conversation, I keep losing control of the conversation and ended up settling back into bad habits of fluff talking.

Here are a few pointers that I am personally trying to incorporate and it has been really useful for me:

1) Have some conversational topics ready in your mind, like how some topics that can engage women. Examples are like relationships, hobbies, future goals etc.

2) Don't just focus on yourself, place focus on her as well. Ask her about herself and go deeper into the topic by saying "Why do like that?" "Do you see yourself doing that for your lifetime?" etc.

3) Incorporate push-pull in your conversations, like keep teasing her with negs and compliment her. This is a great way to ramp up attraction and make the conversation fun.

Hope some of these advices will help.

_________________
You only have 2 choices; either you cry and accept who you are, or get your ass out there and try to change yourself.

Thanks guys for the replies.

I know you're joking Mak, but sometimes it feels like you're right

The thing is, I do do interesting shit. But when I'm talking to people it's like my brain feels small and I can't access the information to talk about. Or if I do get to it, I only manage a few basic sentences on something that I could talk about for 10 minutes. It's like I just can't grasp into my head to get to that next level of detail I could talk about for a longer time.

Yeah I do stand there and be silent... that's often what happens. Or I start repeating myself because I can't think of anything new. The girl gets weirded out and leaves.

I've done this, and I need to do more of this. It does help. But I find it can be a bit robotic and doesn't help me in my goal of just standing there and being to make interesting conversation on the spot with whatever is happening in the moment.

I'll definitely give this a try.

Funny you should say that - I've been doing this a bit lately. But again, it's mostly physical push-pull. The verbal skill to be able to construct a few sentences of verbal push-pull on the spot seems to be beyond me.


Further to this point:
I thought about this some more. Some other things that happen is I stand there silent with a blank mind. I resort to making out with the girl when I'm really struggling to think of anything. This is probably when she's starting to lose interest and I suspect comes across as needy. I also stand there repeating same phrase a few times to buy time when cant think of next thing - for example, if I've made a statement, I'd be standing there silent not able to think of the next thing, and then I'd just repeat it. There is some canned material that I use - often when I'm in the heat of the moment, in the middle of a conversation, I'm having to concentrate so hard on what she's saying and trying to react, I simply forget to use the canned material.

Hopefully this helps make things clearer.

I guess my point is: there's plenty of material, stories, personality there in my mind. It's just getting it out in a real time situation is the problem. I'm great at texting because I can spend a few minutes accessing material, stories, personality in my mind and then type it out. In a real time situation, I'm just not quick enough to do that. My mind is blank and end up getting into the pattern of "react react react" to what the other person said, and of course my mind is slow at getting an interesting response even, so it just ends up being a boring reply.

Conversation is truly a skill. I know many people who could not have an interesting conversation if their life depended on it. But likely, your conversations are bad because you are nervous. Reframe your interactions with anyone from 'I have to be interesting' to 'I'm here to have fun'. This removes the responsibility, and thus the pressure, to be entertaining. Conversation is talking and listening. Talk about what you find interesting, about your passion. Listen to what people are telling you, and you will find out what their passion is. Conversation cannot be boring if people talk about their passions. But again, it is likely that your lack of conversational skill is due to the pressure you feel.

_________________
One of the most useful things you will ever learn about body language.

Before I dived into the PUA community I focused mainly on confidence, later social skills. Read a book about small talk. That's how I clearly improved my game. The next big thing that clearly improved my game was kino-escalation and the balls to kiss a girl.

Edit: Important to add, it's a cliché but it's the truth, the way you say it is very important. Even saying something stupid can make women laugh.

Thanks for the pointers guys. I will do what you suggest and see how it goes

It's funny that occasionally I can do well at conversation - I was out last night and did well. I think it may sometimes be that if I'm more relaxed then there's a better chance of doing well.

One thing I thing to create a good conversation is by RooshV's book Day Bang, which he calls the "elderly conversation." Basically, old people dont' know much about technology, so they might ask you about your laptop "oh, is that good? Does it last long? Where can you get that?" Basically, act stupid and set the frame that her opinion is valuable to you. Even if you know the answer, let her do the talking and don't interrupt.

Another thing RooshV mentioned in his book is "baiting," one is "small bait" and the other is "big bait." Small bait is basically leading them to ask more questions about small talk, and big bait is a statement that makes her ask you about somethign personal about you. Never give full answers when she asks you something. For small bait, if she says "what do you do?" give a vague and overly general answer that "baits" her into asking another question. "Oh, I work in the computer industry." Some people make the mistake of giving people a full 35 minute autobiography off of a 2 second question. For big bait, if she says "Do you drink coffee?" say something like "When I was in South America, I fell in love with their coffee, and you just can't get anything like that here" and this should lead her to ask "Oh, what part of South America did you go?"

In How to Win Friends and Influence People, it talks about how people like to hear their own voices and how they like to know that they are being heard. In most cases, to create a good conversation, you just have to ask the right questions, and most of the talk will be from the other person, not you. "So, you like to make your own bread? How did that happen?" "How did you get into that field?" "What made you decide to buy that book?"

The theme of both these books is quite simple; if you can't think of anything to say, let them do the talking.

That illustrates your problem. You are constantly thinking "what should I say now in order to advance the conversation to my desired outcome?" Perhaps you're trying to thinking of what to say in order to be perceived as cool, or in order to get the number/kiss/lay. Stop that. If you've really been doing this for two years, you have probably already internalized the principles of game. Just don't think about it, consciously, anymore.

Things go better when you're more relaxed because you're not trying to impress anyone, or at least trying as hard as usual. You're free to just be, and that allows you to flow.

I'm the same way, I forget to tell myself the tips that help me. Anxiety just wipes my mind those moments. I mean I've been with an ok amount of girls but perfect form comes in spurts and most of the time it is when I am at the perfect amount of being buzzed or drunk. Sober I usually got nothing and want nothing more than to stay in my bubble. I feel like sometimes I just get lucky and feel in the zone, the perfect words flow out from my mouth and my movement just works. However most of the time I just feel like crap and fumble through it or in approaching my body loses control and scares myself out of it.

I think the problem here is you're trying to improve your conversation skills and confidence through pickup instead of life itself. Girls you've only just met are not likely to be confident enough to open up conversationally until you've got past the initial awkwardness of your first interaction. Until then, you need to lead the conversation.

Don't just speak to girls. Talk to guys, shop assistants, old people, your friends' parents, anybody really. Do exciting things in your life outside pickup so that you have a long list of interesting anecdotal conversation topics. If you can't think of anything, pick up on something the girl is wearing or notice little things about her and let her talk about herself. The point of pickup is to have sex, not become a great conversationalist. Learn how to talk sexually, double meanings, sexual innuendos. Interpret things she says in a sexual way, tease her, make fun of her playfully etc. Basically it doesn't matter what you fucking say, just make sure you touch her and eye-fuck her so that she is visibly turned on. She won't care what you have to say, she only cares about how wet you can make her pussy.