I guess the goal should be a loving relationship. That's really what it's all about. Different ways of getting there. But isn't that the goal? What else would be the goal? To have a lot of fun? Yes, but doesn't love come into play at some point here? Venus was the goddess of beauty - and love. And to develop a deep level of intimacy, doesn't one have to be in a loving relationship? Doesn't it come down to that? As frightened as many of us are about approaching women, isn't that FAR easier than intimacy? And - the dreaded word - commitment? BTW this isn't in the middle game section. It's not a spiel. I really mean what I'm saying.

Mystiklite

The problem is women are not wired for love, biologically speaking- they are not needy for affection like most of us men. Women are simply incapable of loving us (monogamously) the way we are of loving them- they surrender to Hypergamy. This is precisely why 80% of divorces are initiated by the women- the man is/becomes a beta, over-supplicating, needy wreck and she loses all attraction/respect for him and this is due to Hypergamy (look it up if you don't know what it it is).

Love is a societal construct that has been imprinted in our psyche from an early age, so we come to expect, even crave it- that's what oneitis is. When you get to a point that you realise love between a man and a woman simply does not exist, and that you should love yourself and not expect a woman to, then you will get to a point that you will no longer expect/nor crave it in relationships- will not become needy or have oneitis again for any particular women.

Now I'm not saying that you cannot share a fulfilling, romantic, emotional connection with a woman- you can indeed, but rather i am stating that the 'butterflies' does not last and is purely biological: nature has intended it to dissipate for the survival and reproduction of the species. It is purely hormones and chemicals in the brain.

The best attitude to have is to be 'open' to the possibility of love/companionship, but do not seek it, demand it or become 'needy' for it (beta as fuck). Instead, have lots of mindblowing, dirty, wild sex with women first- I'm serious. If love develops from that, so be it, if not, continue swimming on the 'endless pool of pointless pussy' to quote Hank Moody from Californication.

It's like having a best friend. You've got one, don't you? I'm guessing you didn't walk around saying, "I will find me a best friend." It's the same thing with a loving relationship. If it happens, it did over time and shared experiences.

Expect fun and respect from the people you spend time with. If they can't give you that, then cast them aside. Go from there.

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"Let me ask you something. If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use was the rule?"

LOL what a crock of crap! Do you spew excrement from your pours? I wonder.

I'm not great at getting women in the first place but I'm a nester by nature and I'm pretty damn good at sustaining relationships.

Things that girls want in a long term committed relationship, is excitement and dependability. Like stated previously, they want a best friend. My best friends are someone I can sit in and watch Superbad with for the 45th time and have an amazing night, or go out to the bars get shit ass wasted and wake up in the woods spooning a moose leg, having a mountain lion licking my bare ass(that happened). Its variety. If you two haven't gone out in a few weeks find a reason to go out, try a new restaurant, go to a show or get a hotel and try some new sex thing you googled. Or if you guys seem to only go out or hang out at bars/with friends, secure some alone time and develop some inside jokes and really get to intimately know each other. Talk about weird shit like elementary school teachers, near death experiences, or irrational fears. These things always bring about a good conversation leading to more personal conversations.

Other crucial success strategies to having a very healthy relationship:
1. COMMUNICATION!, talk about all your feelings, talk about what you want and how you want to get there, talk about what you expect from your partner, and if you are able to deliver what they expect from you. If you can't or dont want to do what they want, find a way to do it, or find a compromise.
2. Be faithful. I have lost too many relationships because of my plan B girl, or a back up plan chick. I've never cheated per say but I have had woman leave because they found out about my girl on the side. If you devote your time completely to that one woman and leave the others in the dust, your woman will never be suspicious, you will never have to lie, and everything just goes so much smoother.
3. Honesty. Just don't lie. If you find yourself doing something you wouldn't want to tell your S/O, Just don't do it. If you find yourself wanting to lie, and trying to justify it, use step 1(communication) to talk about your insecurities and find a compromised solution.
4. Be yourself. If you are yourself, you never have to lie, you never have to pretend to be someone else, and you will never felt like a caged beast because you have to behave around your woman.
5. Teamwork. You are a team together trying to win the relationship game. No one person should be doing all the work, no one person should be trying to fix the other, but guide them to be what you want, and be willing to be guided to be what they want. You succeed together, you fail together. Don't be afraid to share ownership of all your relationships highs and lows.

After a handful of moderately successful long term relationships, these are the five things I think I need to continue to fine tune to make a relationship truly successful.

Not a crock of crap... Best advice in this thread. Do you spew excrement from you pours? I wonder.

This is some the worst advice I could possibly have come across in my life. True AFC jibberish. Women do NOT want their man as a best friend- a lover period!! They have tons of female friends where they glean emotions/affection from, they do NOT need a man for it, contrary to what they claim to want- all bullshit. They want a man for sex and fun and nothing more- emotional support is completely supplementary in the relationship- they have their family/friends for that.

You are wrong about them wanting dependability as well- women don't need nor want codependent men whatsoever, especially in modern times- regardless of what they SAY they want, Hypergamy ALWAYS wins. Welcome to dating in the 21st century. My advice, NEVER take women seriously and NEVER give in to the lies of monogamy or living happily ever after.

Have fun, have lots of sex- but that's it. Love yourself (and I mean it) and don't ever become dependent on a woman or ANYONE for your happiness and you will ALWAYS be happy and women will find you much more attractive- believe it or not, women are MOST attracted to us when we don't need them. Why? because they sense at an instinctive level that the less a guy needs them, the more valuable he is as a man- he is the alpha male. You should also realise that you are GENETICALLY programmed to be sexually attractive to/compatible with LOTS of women.

Start loving YOURSELF more than anything- and I really mean in an almost arrogant/narcissistic way (not too much) and believe me, women will flock to you like flies around shit. Realise that only you will ever truly love you forever and not a woman. Do NOT believe the years of social brainwashing that has told you that you will find the 'one' to complete you and make you happy - she simply does not exist. DO not believe that you are not good enough as you are either- that you need lots of money, or that you need to be very popular, or you need to look like Ashton Kutcher. YOU ARE FINE JUST AS YOU ARE MY FRIEND!!

I don't mean to be a douche, but have you ever had a long term monogamous relationship? I think we need to define the end goal before we start our banter. When I define "successful relationship" I mean marriage, for life, and raising kids. Not just having a long term fuck buddy. I understand that concept for the courtship process, and probably the initial part of dating. However, I have never met a happy couple married for more than 10 years where the guy is just constantly lets the woman down, and is only there for physical support.

Yes I have been in a 2 year monogamous relationship, that was sadly ended by the girl for certain reasons- as most as are, due to Hypergamy. Lifelong happily married coupled are extremely rare. Why? because monogamy simply does not exist. It is an illusion and lie created by society. We are not monogamous creatures period. Sure, we can have commited relationships, where we deceive ourselves that we are being monogamous...but women always surrender to Hypergamy and will cheat on you with the 'alpha male' whenever the best opportunity arises and men are no better either, but women are the biggest culprits of cheating and divorce rates by far, due to their biological nature. You simply cannot trust 90%+ of modern women for lifelong fulfilment- it is utter naivety to do so.

I think that's incredibly fair, and a decent majority of my ex's support your hypothesis. With that being said, I think its important to be the alpha male while your in the relationship. And not just a douch who lifts weights and talks shit to all the Bro's. But a real fucking man's man, like John Wayne, Humphrey Bogart, or Charles Bronson. No matter how they treat women, gentleman or not they will never get whipped.

If one ensures he is a "man" in every sense of the word then wont Hypergamy only improve the relationship? Maybe I'm the only guy on here without daddy issues, but my dad was a guy who could fix a car, cook a meal, kill a deer, and whoop anyone's ass he wanted without ever getting into a pissing contest. I looked up to him, and I know that just being the man he was was incredibly attractive to my mother.

As long as you aren't a needy little bitch waiting on your woman, but just a self sufficient alpha gentleman, the majority of woman would be satisfied enough to spend a lifetime together. Those 5 guidelines I stated earlier are all with the caveat that you never loose yourself. You can be faithful, honest, work as a team, and communicate and still be alpha as fuck.

Somebody should lock this thread. It doesn't really belong here and there's a lot of terrible advice / conjecture mixed in with some very good advice / conjecture. It'll just confuse the new guys.

Just my 2 cents.

-Wolf

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Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html

This is horseshit. Every girl I know that is single is deeply lonely and constantly whining about being single and not having someone's love/affection. They are PRECISELY wired for love. Monogamous, dedicated , short lived love. What they're not wired for, is lifelong monogamous dedicated love. Neither are men. That's why most relationships don't last very long, and to make them work beyond the first 1-2 years, it takes effort and maturity on both sides. Men are generally better at it because they're less feeling driven. Why do you think rom coms are such a hit with women? Has there ever been a chick flick that's not about love? As for mens movies, is there ANY mention of romantic love in Black Hawk Down? Women on the whole are 10 times needier than men are, and if you don't see it, it means that girls haven't opened up to you enough for you to realize this. You know how sick I get of hearing my friends (who I'm not interested in) obsess over their BF every time they get a new one? And they do get a new one, about twice a year. Women are serial monogamists. They fall deeply in love one man at a time, with a long line of men spread over the years.
What you wrote is basically about men. Men cheat more, they are much less emotionally involved/attached in relationships (men, not manginas) than women, and are more promiscuous. Some divorces are because the man is beta. Some are because the woman is a gold digger. Some are because she caught him with a 19 year old babe. I seriously doubt you have data on how many are for which reason.
After some failed relationships, I'm in the position you describe women at. Desensitized, unemotional, and hypergamous. I don't jump for joy when I get laid with a new HB, and I'm not bothered when I lose one. I just don't care that much. Women aren't like that though.

Yeah no offense but your 5 points earlier were pretty awful.
1. Communication, talk about your feelings: NO THAT IS A HORRIBLE IDEA. Don't talk about your feelings unless you want to come off as a needy mangina.

2.You lost girls not because you had a backup girl, but because your side girl was probably ugly, and your value was lowered by association. You also probably chased your gf and tried to make things right, and came off really beta. Bet you 50$ your gf would be jumping through flaming hoops to stay with you if she found out you were sleeping with a supermodel and not giving any fucks about what she thought.

3.Honesty: dumb. Honesty is just a copout for weak men. It's harder to keep a lie and live with it than to blubberinly admit everything to get the guilt off your chest. Lies, as long as they protect the people you love, are better than truth that will hurt them.

4. Be yourself: This is the only point I agree with. If you have to be someone else to get a girl, you will not be able to maintain a long term relationship with her, because you'll slip up in your act. If there's something inadequate about yourself, change it, don't cover it up.

5. Teamwork: NO. if you act like her best friend, eventually you'll become one, and she'll fill the "boyfriend" vacancy with someone else. You are the LEADER. You don't need teamwork for anything. You do what you need to get done on your own, and shouldn't need a woman's help for it.

If you want to have sex, than there is a certain skill set associated with that. If you want to have an intimate, committed relationship, than there is a certain skill set associated with that too. They do overlap in some ways, but there are also differences. Some guys master one set, and never even realize that there is another.

Also, be wary of guys claiming biological differences between men and women. They might say something like 'men/women are biologically/evolutionary programmed to [insert quasi-factual statement here]', which is usually completely without factual merit. Yes, men have penises and women have vaginas, but is that difference really more important than all the biological and evolutionary commonalities?

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One of the most useful things you will ever learn about body language.

I realize this, and I have done both. I've been in LTRs, and I've done hookups. I've also had many, many friends in LTRs follow the bullshit AFC advice you see handed out everywhere, and they were all left in the dust.
If there's a point you want to argue, lets hear it, and I'll give you 3 peer reviewed controlled studies to prove mine. If you want to dismiss an entire discussion with no evidence, you can, but it won't give any weight to your advice. It's become fashionable to say "hey we all bleed red so we're all the same". It also goes against what hard science shows us.