"You're friend's getting hit on isn't she"

Great situational opener.

Its openers like this that almost guarentee no rejection and for you to start an interaction especially in the UK.

Friday 10/05/13

I was out with Traveller and we just hit 2 different bars. I did 2 approaches and got 2 numbers, here's how they went:

Columbian girl

So this approach was effectively day/street game, this girl was just waiting in a busy public area by the tube station. I saw her thought she was cute and drifted over on my own (while Traveller was also approaching).
My opener: "Hey"
"Hey"
"Are you waiting for a friend as well?"
she turned to face me at his point, "yeah I am"
After that, I just shook her hand and said my name and she gave me hers. We spoke about where we lived in London, why she was over here in the UK (she was learning English at a college), and where I worked - interestingly she was smiling all the way through the conversation. But that's all we had time for really, because she answered her phone and after it ended went to meet her friend. As she was walking off, I said "just before you go, can I get your number it would be nice to get to know you sometime." She turned back round put her number in my phone and called herself, then I asked her if Columbian's do the European thing of this on the cheek, she laughed and but we did the kiss on the cheek, then she walked off.

On a side note, I saw her again at one of the bars we were at! We had a quick conversation, but nothing more.

Analysis

Ok so we didn't get the chance to connect through conversation, her English was ok, but not the best, and the space of time we were talking was less than 5 minutes. From past experience I kind of expected this to be a flake due to this element, I'm effectively still a stranger.
I sent her a text today just before 7pm, full on honesty about how I felt about meeting her: " Hey her name, I enjoyed our short chat yesterday. I'm glad you gave me your number, I'll be disappointed if I don't see you again. How was your night? x"
Call this^ text needy/unattractive/beta if you like I just can't be arsed with the bullshit mystery/style/RSD say about texting, it's never worked for me really. In my opinion If there's a connection, there's a connection, if not there's not, she won't text you back no matter how cocky/funny your text is; which leads me onto not expecting her to text back as there was no connection.

German girl

So this approach was in a bar, and Traveller was off approaching a girl he met before, or something alongs the lines of that.

So I was left on my own, which was fine I've no problem with that as I normally go off and approach on my own. This time there was a "4 set" next to me, and to be honest I've never opened a 4 set. So I wanted to do this, because it gave me a shit load of fear. So after a few moments of getting myself together, I just went for what felt natural "Hey my friend is talking to a girl over there, so can I just talk to you guys for a minute." They all obliged and then just as I started the conversation, Traveller came back over so I introduced him, I kind of faded in the background for a minute or 2 until traveller went for the loud/high energy one, and then I ended talking to 2 of them, one unresponsive really (or really shy?) and the other was very receptive.

So the conversation here was mostly, finding out things about each other, all the basic stuff I found out she was a live-in nanny for a family and that she was going to study resources management in the Netherlands in September, she said she'd wished she'd done psychology, so we had a conversation about psychology quickly. At this point I kind of realised I was doing that usual thing I do where I adapt myself to the girl, and then I felt a shift inside me, where I wanted to talk about the things that are important to me, I choose music first (due to being a musician and music lover) and we really connected over this, we had similar bands in common, and we both play guitar, well she was learning. So i offered to give her lessons as a joke, then we went back over the songs I could teach her, then I was like "fuck it, let's just start a band, I'll be lead and you be rhythm" she then decided I would sing, which I am used to anyway and agreed. Then we decided we would have our first lesson in Hyde Park, which is how I got her number. I then left by saying that I needed to get another drink.

Analysis

This approach went really well in my books to be honest and I really enjoyed our conversation and she was good fun to talk to. We were isolated from the group talking to each other, so that's a reason it went well really. One thing that's also playing on my mind is my friend K. (who I've mentioned before) said to me 'if a guy asks for my number and doesn't spend at least 30-40 minutes with me or carry on talking to me after he has got my number, I probably won't text back - as I got my drink and didn't come back I have this looming in my mind a little bit.
However I also sent a text out to her today, as honest as I felt and this was to basically build on where we left off so I could arrange a meet up.
"Hi, I like how genuine our chat about music was last night. It was nice to meet someone who appreciates the same music. Do your friends ever say that your music is bad? it happens to me! x"

I will go for a guitar lesson in Hyde Park if I can, I can't think of a better excuse to get my hands all over, and it gives me the chance to get behind and guide her hands on the guitar! Essentially a guitar lesson isn't sexual, but with a hot girl you do what you have to.

In this interaction I used part of what was in this post: I went for the open - routine - close, here's my new system:

Opener: effectively anything I tend to be best at indirect so it's usually situational.
Routine: well it's to find things I value and enjoy doing, that they also enjoy too, excite them about doing it.
Close: After I've excited them about doing it, my close is essentially suggesting "let's do it together"

(Thanks Kasabi, this is basically the routine you've been preaching at me)

EDIT: I just thought I'd put in, it's been over 24hrs since I sent those texts out so I guess I'm not getting a reply. I guess this game-on to other girls.

_________________
My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html

You've figured it out. You've figured out the difference between the Colombian girl interaction and the German girl interaction. . . and by now, I'm sure that you've figured out that it doesn't take much to turn a "Colombian girl interaction" (Can I have your number?) into the "German girl interaction" (Let's start a band. Guitar. . . park. . . fun. . . rock and roll!)

Issues with your text follow up however:

But first. . . you should know the REAL difference between your interaction between the Colombian girl and the German girl. You stated that there was a lack of a connection with the Colombian girl but WHY? Here's what I think. . . with the Colombian girl, you TOLD HER that you have interest. With the German girl YOU DEMONSTRATED IT. Read your post again and think about it. . . "It would be nice to get to know you sometime" VS. "Fuck it. Let's just start a band." One is "telling her" that you might be interested. . . the other is a FULL ON demonstration to "rock and roll".

So far. . . so good. So, why not continue DEMONSTRATING your interest? What you describe as "honest" is just a "tell". You are still fishing for instant feedback. You want her to reply to your verbal 'fishing'. You TOLD her, "I genuinely like the interaction, you, blah, blah, blah. . ." If you REALLY GENUINELY LIKED the interaction, how would you express it?
^This? . . . or "I'm thinking 'Steak Paradise" for the band's name. What do you think? Trademarking it now..." - or "Youtube __________. (Some terrible band) Let's play this song. Rock on! I bet we could get a gig in Cambodia." or "You have a demo CD? Meeting up with my rep. Want to introduce you. . . Ha ha. . ."

Do you see what's going on here? You're so close. . .

Thank you Kasabi, such as useful post - there is so much material here. Yes I get your post on telling vs.demonstration now, particularly because the first hand experience got me there in the end.

On a side note I won't be able to carry on this progression for a couple a of weeks as I have 2 exams, with a lot of studying and working full time is just taking up all my time right now. Leaving me incredibly stressed out with little time to do anything...

However I had a question about the colombian girl interaction, since her phone rang and subsequently she had to go; in this occasion it was a last resort to go for her phone number and I wasn't able to excite any emotions within her, what would you suggest is the way to do this over text, essentially I knew very little about her: name, where she was from and where she lives now, and what she was doing in the UK (studying english). This method I admit is clutching at straws but it could be useful to fall back on if this kind of situation happens again.

_________________
My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html

Here's your interaction:
Here's the text:
^This isn't needy/unattractive but it's also not the truth. Really? Did you really enjoy the chat about your work and her school? And you enjoyed the conversation so much that you couldn't remember one thing interesting enough to remind her of your conversation? You could copy/paste this:
to EVERY GIRL you meet and it will fit. It fits because it's generic. It fits because it's a 'tell'. It fits because ^this means, "I don't know you but I like you. I want to fuck you. Let's meet and do it." - And every guy she meets will want to do this, right? Here's a big secret: Most people live powerlessly thinking that they cannot control anything. A few brave people feel they can control their future. Even fewer believe they can control the here and now. I'm here to tell you that you can even change your past. You are that powerful. You stated:
As if you have no control over the "connection" with a girl for your future. . . or even at the time of conversation. . . You wrote ^this as if you just chat back and forth, "connections" might magically occur or mysteriously fail. Leave this type of thinking to women. This is what they want to believe. This is why they call up their friends and bring up, "Soul mates, it just happened, we just clicked, it was so romantic, just connected, blah, blah, blah. . ." - I think you already have a sense that you have the power over 'connections' for the present, because you already did it with the the German girl. It's just that you haven't experienced it enough to believe in your own intuitions. . . that you can in fact carve out your own future and influence other people for the better.

And when you do ^this enough, you might even discover that we can even change our past. How? You seem to have a perception that your initial exchange with the Columbian girl lacked 'connection'. This might be true and surely you could have done better but we always view our past in bits and piece through the prism of our current reality. You do not remember every motion, touch, stare, frown, smile, tone, etc. . . What triggers the memory of positive bits and pieces of the past? . . . that would be a positive current situation. How to create a positive current situation with this girl? . . . that would be to grab a real, genuine, and sincere aspect of your interaction and integrate it into your reply. That's right. . . I'm sure you've heard past = present = future. This is it.

Ok updates have been lacking recently because of 5 exams (2 left next week), moving house, work functions, birthdays, family commitment and my brothers stag-do. But this is worth taking the time out to update and is relevant to what Kasabi has written to me about in the past.

I managed to experience something that really opened my eyes today. I did a track day in a Porsche with my brother for part of his stag-do, it was a fantastic experience, I was nervous, excited, and I'd never been in a luxury sports car before - I got to drive one. My emotions are high at this point, I'm really looking forward to it, you do your safety briefing blah, blah, then you meet your instructor. Now my instructor was called Jade, brilliantly helpful and a fantastic driver. All I wanted to do was drive the car, I had these feelings brewing in me, I wasn't even attracted to her, however as soon as the experience was over (this experience lasted 20-30 minutes at the most) I had this ultimate attraction to her, and I worked it out straight away; the emotions I had felt pre-drive, during the drive and after were all associated with her, not that she got them out of me anyway other than just being there, it was just pure association, they were my feelings and she was just there. It's just the way memory encodes, people, places and specific objects + emotions, which ties them into really strong memories. Basically I experienced what's quoted below but the other way round, I know exactly how this works now - or maybe I'm just wired like a chick. I won't be taking any girls on racedays but I'll certainly try to make them feel like it when I've been talking to them.

_________________
My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html

I don't see much wrong with either of those interactions.

Yes, with the Colombian girl you were "clutching straws" but you didn't really have much of an alternative. I've said it before, good game is very much about controlling what you can control and just accepting the variability of everything. You had no control over things that ended that conversation prematurely. Do the best with what you have and then move on. There's no sense worrying about things that didn't work out.

Like Kasabi, I think your follow-up texts in both instances could be improved. You are taking a page out of my book and being very honest and genuine, which I clearly agree with. But something that you are missing is that I always say that these things need to be appropriate within the context. In that regard, you probably texting a little bit too much.

For instance, you may have been able to say this to the Colombian girl "Hey cutie, nice meeting you - too bad the train had to ruin our moment "

From there you could have joked to her about it being fate that you guys ran into each other later that evening and then talk about wanting to see her again. Its just a matter of being cognizant of the fact that even if you are interested, there is a certain amount of interest that is "normal" at that time and a long, in depth text demonstrating it might be too much.

With the German girl, you could have followed similarly, "Hey cutie, nice meeting you - I hope the world is ready for the next superstar guitar duo." Move on to logistics.

Here's an important point that I think needs to be emphasized into all of this. Being genuine, direct, honest, etc...doesn't mean you have to be boring. Actually, it should be pretty playful, along the lines of the "too bad the train had to ruin our moment" text I used above. That's a playful, fun way of showing some interest. You can be verbally direct too but the same rules apply. Tone and subcommunications go a long way as well. This is flirting at its best, in my opinion.

A much needed update, not because I haven't been doing anything, I have made approaches but nothing significant to write about; admittedly not that many. The reason I'm writing this now is because I have no aims or goals for pickup and this is the reason my results and steps towards it aren't going well, my personal example is I want to be a clinical psychologist what I know I have to achieve is get a 2:1 in my degree, and complete a PHD, I am also setting up a business related venture because I love psychology that much and this business will also help me get on the PHD.

So I'm going to start outlining some personal goals that I'd like to achieve, but first I'd like to write about things I want to avoid:
- Seeking validation from the amount of girls I get with, the way I'll do this is trying to avoid telling friends about any potential conquests, I'll keep my love private and seek to impress myself with it.
- Getting so carried away of being successful I stress my self out when I don't achieve my goals, obviously I'll be disappointed if I don't but getting worked up I'll try and avoid it.

Here is what I'm trying to achieve:
- 1 date every week, but I would be happy with every 2 weeks.
- Meeting girls in the day (all my numbers etc. have been at night), 5 a week.
- Try and achieve one one night stand a month, I can't even remember the last time I did this so I want to do it again purely for that reason.

One thing I need to do is put time aside and make this happen, the problem for me personally is it's difficult to do day pick up because when I see girls on the street that I want to approach it feels unnatural to go over or after them and make a conversation.

For my next post I'll think of ways I can achieve my goals, the "how's" so to speak. Any idea's are welcomed and appreciated.

_________________
My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html

So I haven't implemented my goals yet but I'll just write about my current goings-on

Last week I bumped into a girl from school, she works near where I'm working and it was on the way home. Now this doesn't seem that big of a deal but, I didn't grow up in London nor did she, so there's quite a nice vibe to it at the moment. The conversation was pretty short as we were both heading in different directions, but she suggested meeting for lunch and we swapped contact details. Now I personally can't meet at lunch, and I'd like to take away that feeling of looking at the time to constantly being mindful of staying too long and being late for work so I'll suggest something after work. About to set this up soon.


Work girls. That's right there's 2 girls at work that I feel I have a chance with. Now I don't normally do "game" with work colleagues but there's no guarantee I'll be back next September. Let me explain them quickly.

There's a women that used to be a supervisor for me, but a milf effectively, she's 26 has one kid and her ex-partner is in prison (for drug dealing). Now I used to think I was projecting this on myself but I actually think there's something there now, I always thought there was this maternal care for me for me like she cared and she used to pay more attention to me than other male members of staff (apart from the ones she's good friends with). So I tracked this and I was right, her attention to me is just different. There's a staff party on the 19th and this could be a chance to finally make a move.

Work girl 2, a 29 year old. She's an Aussie and is traveling around europe and using the UK as her base before she goes back home. She has no commitments to anyone or anything a bit of a free spirit, it won't jeopardize her career, but the problem is she has already slept with another coworker and after this happened she went on a bit of a "what the fuck have I done?" sort of trip with herself, this could be a potential block.


That's it for now, I really need to start some day game....

_________________
My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html

So what are you up to now?

Toke me a while, but I decided to read your whole journal to see if kasabi was right. The man was, we have a couple of things in common towards pick up and life if you will; that makes it really interesting and it would be an easy way of improving if we share with each other our experiences and our way of thinking.

Primarily I believe we share a general point of view in life that`s limiting us somehow, a mentality that can and must change and whoever does it faster can give some tips to the other.

To me pages 4 and 5 are awesome in this thread, because of your discussion with kasabi and the achievements you`ve done that helped me see how to apply the method in a day to day interaction.

Please keep on posting and if you want to: check out the first page of my journal when I asked kasabi for advice, give me your own two cents and maybe you`ll feel the same way.

I`m telling you, we are different but not that much. Let`s use this towards achieving goals

I've just logged on to update actually! so I'll do that now.

Ok so the girl I bumped into on the street, we were meant to go out today, but since she's house hunting she completely forgot, I understand that actually, as I'm moving into my new place on Friday and my social life just kind of went on hold on the week nights.

I've finished my work placement now and won't be going back as far as I know. the 29 year old, just has no interest really, maybe if I escalated things a bit more, but from conversation and vibe, it's definitely not there so I didn't pursue.

Milf boss, well to be honest nothing happened on the 19th, it just got out my control she got a bit too drunk and she just had a really good time with everyone, it was needless chasing her round all night like a puppy so I just had a good time too. With all work friends there though, it probably wasn't the best place for things to happen as there was so many rumours that fuel the fire in that work place, I personally wanted to stay out of it.

On a side note, there's definitely something there that I will explore, my plan is to go for a fling or friends with benefits, although admittedly I like her a little too much so could end badly. I'm no provider she knows that and I don't want to meet her kid, but I can offer her a good time and escapism at the least, and I'll be up front with my expectations, I'll ask her out for the weekend and just persist for a couple hours of her time, walk round a park most likely as the English weather is great in London for once! [credit to Tr@veller on the advice for this]

Apart from that I've had a few nights out with friends, on Friday 12th July, I almost had a one night stand. But I let one of the guys in her group TALK me out of it. Basically said she was a slag blah blah blah, I need to be tested afterwards etc. I succumbed to the social pressure, she was so up for it too. On the dancefloor grabbing my crotch, grinding etc. I don't regret it but it would have just been nice to get laid.


Well thanks for reading, I know I can drag on a bit. I'll definitely check out your journal soon then and see what we can share, as any support for others seems to be a lacking thing on this website for the journals (Kasabi and DB aside, their advice is invaluable).

I've been thinking about what you said actually, it's an interesting point. I always feel like I'm on the verge of it but I can't quite "pull the trigger," to give it an analogy. I guess it's a mix of the fear of going into unknown territory, and the confidence in my own ability to get used to what ever life throws at me. I also personally believe I have a massive spout of indecisiveness, but because I'm always looking for the proper way to do things, like if I can read a book or guide on how to do it, then I'll do it step by step, rather than failing and learning and subsequently altering the progress until there's no failures.
An example from my personal experience, I'm so bad at asking girls out for dates. This is simply because I don't know what to do with them, so I get worried about asking them out and I don't actually do it, or I do...but when it's too late and they lose interest.

I don't know if this rings true at all, there's a lot of jibberish in there as well I imagine, but it feels better for writing it down.

_________________
My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html

Yeap, confirmed.

I share the same fear, of pulling the trigger. Here is what I`ve done wrongly for a long time thinking that would cure me:

I went straight for direct and as soon as meeting the girl: not much results you get mate. At least not for me at the stage I`m at.

What I`m trying to do now is to actually build some trust with the girl before actually asking her out or to do something. I find this is the proper way of doing things, but it`s a pretty obvious one. The problem is that I missread signs till today and that I don`t make the move when the girl is asking for it. I`m a long way from having girls asking me out, but at least now I know I`m one step closer.

Towards your issue on asking girls out, I won`t be puttin new imput into your field report because kasabi already did; but here is a fresh example I just tryied yesterday with a girl over wassup:

So we were talking about stuff, I wanted to ask her out so I mentioned a few day ago I went to a bowling that also has some pool for you to play, and that I just played pool that evening but turns out I wanted to give it a show to bowling but couldn`t.

While I`m telling her this she says that she always wanted to go but never had a chance; after reading that I told her that I have memories of sucking big time at bowling, but that I`d really wanted to have a laugh at it while doing so. I believe this is the important part: you must communicate that the two of you are doing more than a simple activity, like pool, bowling, a walk on the park.

What you aim to communicate is that you are there to have good fun with her, and to share the moment and experience.

Anyway, she rejected me because she says she would feel really ashamed by bowling with me on the first time we meet, I asked her out for drinks. That`s my method when my creative self fails: ask her out for a fucking drink and if she refuses you have a clear messege that she`s not that interested in you.

All along I actually believed that the way I was inviting her out with me was the proper one, the one kasabi recommended you, I removed fear from the girl before asking her out and then, when the time was right, I introduced a story that made me exited and wanted to have her exited aswell for the same activity.

Those are my two cents.

Not always but usually, when ever I read about guy going after girls at work/school/in an existing social group, I think that he has approach anxiety. And sometimes you read about guys being in actual love with girls . . . just because he sees them every other day at work and says, "Hey, how's the weather?" Then they justify it with all that girly crap. "Soul mates . . . non-verbal communication . . ."

I understand what you are implying. These girls know you. You know them. So that initial break-the-ice phase has already past. So, all you have to do is get to the party and fuck? Doesn't really work that way does it?

Look, go find any stranger anywhere in the World. . . chat with them for 10 minutes and do it effectively . . .and at that point, after 10 minutes of conversation, you will be exactly where you are with these girls at your workplace, and possibly better off because they didn't have the time to already toss you into the 'cute kid but probably will never fuck' category.

Get out and work the girls. Take your time. Enjoy the process. Have fun.

Just an update; In a sentence me and the Milfboss didn't meet up in the end, she was totally a girl with liking the idea of me, but when it came down to me trying to make it a reality she backed off. She was well up for the meet, and came across that way, but when it came down to actually doing it she found an excuse once, then tomorrow for a rescheduled meet and backed off for a group meet with people. I get the vibe that I think I'm in the "nice-guy probably won't fuck category" as you said Kasabi. But on the other side - I think if I run off, it shows exactly what I'm after, the thing is PUA tells me to run off and hide after 2 flakes; however this girl has baggage, serious baggage, I think it will be a long tiring game, I'm not sure if I'm up for it, I'll decide that later on. For now, I need to game on some other girls like you suggest, I did make 2 approaches on Saturday night but I didn't get anywhere, they just weren't interested and didn't have the time to talk me - fair enough.

What I'm finding personally is when I'm out and about, the girls I see out partying are not the girls I want to approach anymore, I personally find them irritating and immature. I can tell this just from the way they look, I know that's shallow but there's definitely stereotypes of the way girls looks that define their interests, job/career (or none even), and even their IQ level. To be honest I don't know what's going on, I feel like approaching, but when it comes down to it I don't see anyone I want to approach...

_________________
My Journal is thoughts on life game and approaches: artful-roger-journal-vt148980.html

You're results oriented. Enjoy the process of approaching and that will help you screen much better.