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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:59 pm 
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Your afraid that she has a STD after one ONS? But you yourself have fucked girls that had fucked plenty, not to mention a FF. You are being paranoid. And your manhood get's threatened way to easily, so start working on your inner game. Otherwise she might end up with another bad experience which has probably caused all this LMR in the first place.

I recommend reading 8 types of woman by VinDicarlo, it will give you a better understanding of woman.

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The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live.


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 1:15 am 
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Bringing zombie topic back.

Well, I've been fine in the meantime, and relationship's OK.

However, it struck me again 2 months after, the info she told me. (I didn't force it, she's chosen to talk about our histories).

I'd appreciate if you could read initial post of the topic, before leaving a comment.

So, she was completely drunk that night. And her female friend invited 3 guys at her door in a hotel room. Apparently she expects me to believe that all three "crawled" around her, according to her words, and when two of them left, she ended up in intercourse to loose virginity with third guy.

It seems like very questionable logic.

You really think I should trust this?

So, I now highly doubt it was only a drunk ONS to loose virginity, I also think she lied about group/foursome. And that is fucking disgusting.

So how do I approach this? Bear in mind, I don't want to be assertive with her or anything. Maybe I'll even stay silent.

But, at this point of life, I know what I don't want to. I don't want to be involved with a slut, even though relationship currently may appear great, when I dig - its always something - and I would simply go against myself, everything which led me here in life to have my path crossed by a slut.

Help.


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 8:37 pm 
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So, I now highly doubt it was only a drunk ONS to loose virginity, I also think she lied about group/foursome. And that is fucking disgusting.
First, she's probably lying to you because she's afraid you will judge her. You are not providing a safe environment for open and honest communication. Second, foursomes are awesome. I said it in my first post on this thread and I'll say it again: Slut shaming is an expression of your hatred for other men. It's a subconscious manifestation of your lack of confidence and/or experience. These thoughts/feelings will hinder you in your dealings with the opposite sex.

/Clearly you should dump this girl for being a "slut"
//more girls for us

-Wolf

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Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 8:48 pm 
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So, I now highly doubt it was only a drunk ONS to loose virginity, I also think she lied about group/foursome. And that is fucking disgusting.
First, she's probably lying to you because she's afraid you will judge her. You are not providing a safe environment for open and honest communication. Second, foursomes are awesome. I said it in my first post on this thread and I'll say it again: Slut shaming is an expression of your hatred for other men. It's a subconscious manifestation of your lack of confidence and/or experience. These thoughts/feelings will hinder you in your dealings with the opposite sex.

/Clearly you should dump this girl for being a "slut"
//more girls for us

-Wolf
There is nothing wrong with slut shaming. I used to be a slut, and now I'm ashamed. It's basic, basic biology. Some people have values that are different than yours. You should accept it just as they accept yours. Not everyone needs to be ok with foursomes. For some, PUA is for finding a girl they want to be with, and not merely running up the numbers as high as humanly possible.


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:07 pm 
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@Wolf: no, it wasn't a foursome or threesome, but it was of very similar type.

@zmbcm1: exactly. nothing to add to that.

Now, I can accept that I'm playing with fire, or walk away.


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:11 pm 
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There is nothing wrong with slut shaming. I used to be a slut, and now I'm ashamed. It's basic, basic biology. Some people have values that are different than yours. You should accept it just as they accept yours. Not everyone needs to be ok with foursomes. For some, PUA is for finding a girl they want to be with, and not merely running up the numbers as high as humanly possible.
I would argue that slut shaming displays insecurity. It is also detrimental to honest communication and to a guy's long-term interactions with women. We are here to better our interactions with women. Therefore, slut-shaming should be discouraged on these forums.

Are you familiar with the Madonna-Whore Complex as it relates to pick-up? It basically states that guys want a girl who's great in bed, is hot and who enjoys sex, but we also want a girl who's innocent and "pure". Guys want the Madonna and the Whore. It's a paradox. You can't have both.

Sexual variety is GREAT for a long-term relationship. As guys, it's basically our job to provide that variety. Therefore, the more sexually open you are, the better equipped you are to sustain a healthy long-term relationship. If you have hang-ups about sex and sexual activity, then that's one less weapon in your arsenal you can use to maintain a good LTR.

-Wolf

_________________
Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:26 pm 
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You are not providing a safe environment for open and honest communication.
You think I showed her my negative reactions when we talked about histories?

No, I didn't.

Later on, and now I'm sick, but that's something I will hide in front of her. I have internal dilemmas.

Also not all girls are sluts, or act like sluts. Blowing strangers, risking diseases is NOT the same thing as being naturally sexual. But if its all the same for you, and you don't put these things in context of LTR analysis, then its your personal taste. Not objective opinion, just your preference.

Me and this girl were hoping for LTR, not some kind of FF.


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 10:10 pm 
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You think I showed her my negative reactions when we talked about histories?

No, I didn't.

Later on, and now I'm sick, but that's something I will hide in front of her. I have internal dilemmas.

Also not all girls are sluts, or act like sluts. Blowing strangers, risking diseases is NOT the same thing as being naturally sexual. But if its all the same for you, and you don't put these things in context of LTR analysis, then its your personal taste. Not objective opinion, just your preference.

Me and this girl were hoping for LTR, not some kind of FF.
Let's examine this for a second. You hid your reaction when she told you her story? Why? I'm guessing it's because of something you read on these forums (i.e. because an Alpha male wouldn't have that reaction and women are attracted to Alpha males). So, you're just going to fake it and pretend it doesn't upset you. Now, that works well for pick-up because anybody can fake being alpha long enough to get a girl to sleep with them. However, that's not necessarily a great long-term solution. Women are fairly good at spotting inconsistent beliefs/behavior over long periods of time. It would be much better if you just worked on acquiring a more alpha mind set.

The amount of sexual activity a women engages in prior to a relationship has little or no bearing on how good a girlfriend she is capable of being. There are much better indicators, red-flags for screening a potential long-term girlfriend. That's the main issue I have with "slut-bashing".

-Wolf

_________________
Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 10:30 pm 
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I would argue that slut shaming displays insecurity.
It can. It can also be an indicator of higher worth.
Prepare for a nerd rant or zone out:

The human mind was shaped by natural selection in the context of the early human's social and physical environment. We evolved in relatively small tribes in the African savannah. However, sexual behavior in many mammals, especially ones which display evidence of monogamous relationships show that the dynamics are very similar. Males have minimal investment in the act of sex with a female. Sperm production is cheap and renewable. A male can mate with a number of females at very low biological risk or cost to himself, and it is in his interest to spread his genes as widely as possible. This creates an incentive for the male to impregnate as many as females as possible. Studies have been done and actually show that more promiscuous mammals such as chimps produce more, and more viscous sperm because it is LITERALLY a race to the egg. The higher quality females mate with the best males in a rapid succession, and the males with the most/most viscous sperm have an advantage over the others and a higher chance of impregnation. Human semen has been found to be closer to that of the more promiscuous primates, such as chimps.


The case for a female is the opposite. Mating with a male is a huge biological investment. The opportunity, health, and time cost of a pregnancy is huge, and the risks are large. A female wants to be impregnated by the most genetically fit male, so that her offspring is of the highest quality possible, and that her genes will be the most successful. However, the most genetically fit males, tend to be shitty partners (this has actually been demonstrated in controlled studies), and flake on parental duties, because they know that by playing the field they will be more genetically prolific (nature made this easy enough to understand "I'm horny and look at all these babes that want it"). Therefore the female needs to find a "nice guy"/reliable mate that will protect her and look after her while she's pregnant and help raise the child. Generally the guys that are willing to sacrifice so much energy and effort tend to be ones who are not the "fittest" and have limited options ("she's the best i can do, i better not do anything to lose her"). This gives an incentive for the female to stray from her chump mate and mate with the highest quality male she can find, without being caught. This has been demonstrated time and time again in controlled animal studies, and in controlled human preference studies. Women prefer the "alpha" guys for mating, but later on, the "beta" guys to be providers.

The absolutely worst thing that can happen to you in biology, is being fooled in to raising someone else's offspring thinking its yours. It renders you a total and utter Darwininan failure, and it cuts you out of the gene pool with a vengeance. Not only did you not reproduce, but you actually helped someone who is of no kin to you pass on their genes, creating more competition for your kin.
For this reason, there is nothing "weird" about men wanting women who have not slept with 9001 men. They want mates that they do not have to worry about cheating, and then having to raise another man's child. In fact, for a man, it is far far worse to be cheated on and not know, than to be left for someone else. Being dumped means you can find new females and procreate. Until paternal testing (all of evolution), being cheated on and not finding out meant you're FUCKED.
On the flipside, a woman's chances of surviving/reproducing, while harmed by the danger of her man leaving if he was to impregnate another female, are not as affected. Women evolved to be in a bigger fear of being abandoned, and left to their own devices, which in the evolutionary context, put them in a bigger twist than a loner man would be in. That's why, in many cultures, a women tolerate cheating men as long as they stay with her (I don't think this is right, nor do I advocate for this, but I'm explaining why it happens and why it works).

Now, before the Feminazi Waffen SS breaks down my door and carries me off for a mandatory castration, I want to qualify this explanation with the following:
All human behavior evolved within the context I described. While reality now is completely different, and women don't *need* men to survive, can raise children on their own, and there is now birth control, and paternity testing, STD SPAM, etc etc etc, NONE of this was a factor in the context of the evolution of the human mind. Our minds are still fresh out of Africa, and have not changed in the last 10,000 years. We have the same genes that helped us hunt gazelle and survive in the tribe. There is no Iphone gene, or Birth Control gene. Those natural forces shaped the human thinking to be the way it is now. We do not have to think about any of this. These thought processes were shaped genetically and through natural selection. Those who thought differently did not reproduce successfully.

This is why, a man with a high value, doesn't need to, nor should he have to settle for a female that is quick to sex with strangers. It's because he can find someone who's attractive, but at the same time dedicated to him, and won't put him in as much jeopardy of ultimate biological failure.

Quote:
It is also detrimental to honest communication and to a guy's long-term interactions with women. We are here to better our interactions with women. Therefore, slut-shaming should be discouraged on these forums.
With all due respect, you made some sweeping statements here, with nothing to back them up with.
Quote:
Are you familiar with the Madonna-Whore Complex as it relates to pick-up? It basically states that guys want a girl who's great in bed, is hot and who enjoys sex, but we also want a girl who's innocent and "pure". Guys want the Madonna and the Whore. It's a paradox. You can't have both.
I am familiar with it. Are you familiar with the Goldilocks phenomenon? There is a balance in everything.

Quote:
Sexual variety is GREAT for a long-term relationship. As guys, it's basically our job to provide that variety. Therefore, the more sexually open you are, the better equipped you are to sustain a healthy long-term relationship. If you have hang-ups about sex and sexual activity, then that's one less weapon in your arsenal you can use to maintain a good LTR.
No. The more partners I have, the more difficult it is for me to care about my relationships, and the less committed I become. This applies to every "player" type I know. Some are too far gone to ever be brought back. They're going to try to settle down and end up with 8 divorces by age 45.


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 6:08 am 
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The amount of sexual activity a women engages in prior to a relationship has little or no bearing on how good a girlfriend she is capable of being. There are much better indicators, red-flags for screening a potential long-term girlfriend. That's the main issue I have with "slut-bashing".

-Wolf
You misunderstood me.

I don't care about number of partners. I never had problem with my ex-girlfriends having experience.

The current girlfriend simply didn't have time to prove herself promiscuous at this age. But according to how she started, it is easy to assume that she took the first step down the road. One simply cannot be cheap and rewarding at the same time. Its binary, ones psychological construct will tend to follow single pattern at a time. Its not simple to just change a pattern in close time intervals.

Also, now she may be curious about experiencing a relationship in life, for the first time. And I happen to be the provider. But I am just a quick tool of juvenile girl's experience, just like she tried first sex in the most possible kinky way. Uneducated, underage (below 18), risking to get a fucking disease from stranger Yeah, besides blowing a strangers dick, she actually thinks that condoms protect against all STDs which brings me to another thought - she was too young and stupid for sex, a fucking child, legally speaking. So if she isn't considerate about herself, how can I expect that to change in matter of few months, and count on her to be responsible and considerate about any fucking thing?

I repeat, leave aside your god damn hyper-sexuality, put all the women off your high pedestal, and tell me if it would be perfectly OK in case she brings genital herpes to a partner/person she supposedly cares about?


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 6:16 am 
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No. The more partners I have, the more difficult it is for me to care about my relationships, and the less committed I become.
Yes, and this is a proven fact, scientifically. It simply affects brain mechanisms and chemicals, like being less receptive to a drug. I agree with your reasoning. However, we are not discussing large number of partners, or extreme promiscuity here. The girl did all of that just once, in single night, and suddenly she's in romantic relationship with me. That's so tricky it's almost a challenge. However I seriously consider break-up over this. One of the toughest decisions I can make at this point.


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 6:25 am 
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The amount of sexual activity a women engages in prior to a relationship has little or no bearing on how good a girlfriend she is capable of being. There are much better indicators, red-flags for screening a potential long-term girlfriend.
Oh, btw, which would these 'better indicators' be?

Do tell, please.

(And I really hate to repeat myself because my situation should be clear by now - I'm not talking about amount of activity, I'm talking about type of activity)


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:14 am 
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No. The more partners I have, the more difficult it is for me to care about my relationships, and the less committed I become.
Yes, and this is a proven fact, scientifically. It simply affects brain mechanisms and chemicals, like being less receptive to a drug. I agree with your reasoning. However, we are not discussing large number of partners, or extreme promiscuity here. The girl did all of that just once, in single night, and suddenly she's in romantic relationship with me. That's so tricky it's almost a challenge. However I seriously consider break-up over this. One of the toughest decisions I can make at this point.
Hey dude. I really don't think you should let random guys from the internet (ie, me) sway you toward breaking up what otherwise appears to be a decent relationship. If these things came out at the very start, the rational thing would be to peace. The advice I gave you was assuming that you two weren't already dating seriously. I still would say "do not LTR". However, since you've already been together for some time, and she hasn't fucked up, I think you should give her the benefit of the doubt, and not break up because of some stupid decision she made when she was young and drunk. If you want your relationship to work, you will have to let this go, and accept this girl's affection. Otherwise this will be a self fulfilling prophecy and destroy the relationship. Clearly you care about her. Don't let the past get in the way of that. Just remember to be very careful and slow with any further emotional involvement and look for warning signs that would be related to her past, in the future. I still think its a good idea to have options in case this shit gets wrecked.
Good Luck.


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 10:52 am 
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You've been thinking a lot, maybe it's time to consider what options you really have. If your real concern is about diseases, then that can be put to rest, incredibly simply. Suggest to her that you go and get tested for STIs together. Who's to say that she doesn't have the same worries about you, and that's why she's so reluctant to be intimate sexually?
If she says no, then start a conversation. Explain that you think it's good practice to make sure you're both clean, and it's important for your peace of mind. If she still refuses, ask her what she's afraid of.
Make sure you ask questions of yourself though- if the idea of doing this makes you feel icky, ask yourself what you're afraid of. If the tests come back alright, will that make you feel better, or will you still feel unsure about her sexual history? If they come back and there's a problem with her, and it's treatable with medication, will you still want to stay with her? If they come back and there's a problem with her, and it's not treatable, will you definitely want to break up? If they come back and there's a problem with you, how will that affect the situation?
If you or she are absolutely not willing to get tested, and you can't let go of your fears (remember, your feelings are your problem, not hers) you have two options- do nothing and hope it gets better, or break up.


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:17 pm 
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Oh, btw, which would these 'better indicators' be?

Do tell, please.

(And I really hate to repeat myself because my situation should be clear by now - I'm not talking about amount of activity, I'm talking about type of activity)
I actually have a link to a fairly lengthy post on screening attached to the bottom of every post I make on this
forum. It pretty much covers my thoughts on the matter.

/busy at work today. Will respond to other comments when I have some time. Interesting discussion.

-Wolf

_________________
Screening: drama-free-relationships-1-screening-vt124827.html
Bad Behavior: drama-free-relationships-3-the-soft-next-vt125554.html


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