Hi, I'm here to begin or continue to debate whether or not porn is harmful or not.
I hope it won't be locked since a lot of PUA ads are on porn sites(hehe, jk).

I'll begin with topics that everybody know, and the first one will be porns exploitation of women.
The first argument against porn is that it is exploitative to women. There's the argument that it is fundamentally exploitative and misogynistic because it views women as sex objects, and while not false, I'll counter this argument by saying that sex is a primary drive of men's relationships, and that a normal healthy man desires sexually attractive women(or men if he's gay), ie: desiring a woman for her body isn't a bad thing. Then there is the argument that it really exploits a number of women, by coercing and manipulating a lot of them into doing porn, which they never intended to do in the first place, or by downright encouraging sexual slavery(in eastern europe and asia mostly) and the rape of children, in the case of illegal child pornography. This is a better argument than the first one, and I think the majority of men agrees that a lot of women aren't treated right in the porn industry and sometimes its simply disgusting and illegal. Then there's the argument that, as consumers, we can't know how actresses are treated the right way or not by consuming porn, just as we can't know whether our weed is coming from an indoor grower student thats using it to pay his tuition fees or it's coming from a high crime-rate and dominated by the mafia village in mexico. Even then, my opinion is that porn, in general, isn't a good thing for a lot of women in the industry.

The second main argument against porn is that it is fundamentally wrong and a sin and it makes you into a pervert. This argument is the main one of church anti-porn advocates and is also an argument by feminist groups saying that porn changes men into perverts and rapists. Not being a religious person, I don't think masturbating is a bad thing or a sin. Also, many if not all non-biased studies on the subject failed to make a link between porn use and sexual crime rates. Not only that, but when hawai stopped it's prohibition on porn, they noticed that sexual crimes against children dropped. Porn doesn't make sexual predators.

And those are the primary attacks against porn, and if they were the only arguments against it, I don't think I would object, because governments can always watch the industry more closely to prevent abuse, and that using porn shouldn't be something you should be ashamed of on moral grounds or by fear of becoming a pervert. But there is more, there is the harm that is made on users without them even noticing it, harm that prevents them from achieving healthy sex-lives and success.

Libido is a primary drive of men. When you use porn, it is a way to sooth your libido. When you use porn a lot, it becomes your only way to sooth it, and you may go into a mental rut where you stop pursuing real women and relationships, and stop caring about success with women, UNCONSCIOUSLY. Even if you read PUA books and come on this forum because you want to have sex with women, when you actually go on the field, your brain is disinterested, there is no urgency and no motivation, because you can always go back to your safety wheels that is porn to sooth your libido.

I'd bet that the big majority of men that are "chronic masturbators" are also chronic porn users, and only stopping porn would make them masturbate a lot less. When you stop using porn, the normal chemistry of your brain starts kicking in, it starts to think that your libido isn't "answered" anymore and starts to motivate you to meet women, and motivate you to be social and succeed.

You might think that all that isn't proven, that's it's theory, and frankly, it isn't scientifically proven. The thing is that scientist don't know how our brain really works. But when you look at the things that real men say after they quit porn, it becomes clear.* They all say that their life is better, that they are more happy and more outgoing. The only drawback is that some says quitting porn wasn't easy, that their "brain reconfiguration" didn't happen overnight and that they started really feeling better months, if not a year or two after they stopped it. The reason why is that it is not a conscious process. Porn is a way to artificially sooth your libido even if you consciously KNOW that your sex life is bad or that you want real sex, but it seems to be that your subconscious libido can be fine with only porn.

Internet and massively industrial porn is something that is recent and that men didn't evolve with. On another line, I also think romance novels do the same thing for women, they start waiting for a perfect man and feel bad when they can't find it, but it is clear that men depicted in those things are simply unrealistic. It makes women have unrealistic views about men and make them unsatisfied when they can't find the ideal man. I don't know if it's as bad as porn for men but anyway it's another subject...

I want to finish to say that I'm not somebody that is convinced easily, I think that I'm a born skeptic. I always try to find information to verify claims and theories that seem cheesy and I'm not quick to give in. But there's something I'm damn sure about, if there's a real chance that porn is preventing me from having sex, then FUCK THAT SHIT.

*The funny thing is that: How do you find those men? Well folks, it seems that studies measuring porn's effect on users have one big problem, they cannot find a big enough and representative group of men that doesn't use porn. Those confessions about porn from men seem to be found only on "quitting porn" sites.

I think its all in your head. If you aren't getting laid and you think its because of porn.... Then stop watching it. Alot of guys DO watch porn however, because as you said... its soothing. Personally, I enjoy porn sometimes... Especially after I have a girl who is a fucking DUD in bed. I've had my fair share of sex and not every single sexual episode I have had is necessarily something I like to talk about (or even like to remember for that matter.) Point being... Nobody knows how to make yourself feel better than you do. When I have a bad sexual experience... You can bet your ass that I'm gonna get myself off at some point the next day. If you realize that porn is simply entertainment and not a substitute for sex, it won't seem a big deal at all. Now, being a person who chronically masturbates can cause serious problems.... like chaffing lol stop worrying so much about how other people feel about shit like and make your own decisions and opinions on something for yourself. The more you read into something like that, the more real it becomes in YOUR MIND, and the worse you are going to feel when you can't even lay on your stomach at night and wind up on pornhub lol its like people who type in they have a runny nose and a sore throat on webMD and all the sudden they think they have cancer because that is what the internet told them....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ya67aLaaCc[/youtube]

Look at the pay scale ratio of Women:Men first, then come back and tell me that porn exploits women. It's men who get the rawest deal. It's men who pay for porn and it's the male actors who lose out on pay.

Porn:
"It makes people have unrealistic views and makes them unsatisfied when they can't find the ideal mate."
No, porn does not create sexual predators. The mind creates sexual predators. When porn becomes a way of life, it eventually consumes you. You think it, therefore you become it.
While I enjoy porn, I am aware of the fact that it is unrealistic and exaggerated. It's fucking fantasy, after all. The problem stands with people who make it real.
Here's the thing: people are sexual beings. They need some form of sexual interactions. If that need is not fulfilled, shit hits the fan. On the small scale, it breaks up relationships, friendships, and other social relations. On the larger scale, it fucks with people's lives. Abuse of any shape and form, and killings. Oh yes. It's true. Therefore, the need for sexual interactions of at least, some sort, has to be dealt with.
On to the famous "porn/sex in different situtations is a sin". It's insane. I have never, and I mean never, met a religious person whose sexual life is fulfilling. I won't even touch on the subject of that person's unhappy life in general. While logic is not one of their strong characteristics, they should ask themselves: If god made them as they are, with genitals and all, why the fuck would he forbid you to use that and make the most of it? So that you can go to heaven and live in a constant "happy and fulfilled state" forever? Thanks for the offer, but I'd rather stick my cock in a vagina.
Porn takes advantage of women and treats them like shit. As if they don't like that. Porn does not treat women bad in any way. Different porn starts have actually said that porn makes their life better. And while you can argue that it desensitizes them, it's not really true, because in the end, through porn, you identify what is arousing and what is not. That's not desensitizing in my book. It's basic knowledge that should be found in every mind.
Arguements are brought to the table that porn ruins lives, creates slavery and so on. While they can be true in certain circumstances, more often than not, it's false. Here's an example:
Women needs money. She goes to guy who knows the industry. She does whatever she does. Then, they take advantage of her and force her into a life of slavery. Sad. No, really, it's sad. Not for the women, but for the fucking people who actually draw the conclusion from this scenario that porn is at fault. It's not. Man is at fault. As he's been for millions of years. But that's another story that I won't go into right now.
Yes, the example I chose for the women was intentional.
Porn treats women as if they're objects.
Yeah. So?
It's not as if they don't like it. If they wouldn't want to be controlled, they wouldn't be so fucking demanding. I'm refering to the whole "alpha men control women while betas drown under their skirts" concept. They fuck (mess) with men so much because they need to be sure of the fact that when the time comes, and they need a rough sex session, the man will step up and provide.
So there you have it. I hope you're happy now. My fingers are certainly not.

Does this also involve soft porn such as make-out videos? Cause I watch them once a week, mostly Sunday, and the last time I made out with a girl it still turned me on and gave me a boner multiple times

Wallie

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i don't know how ready i am to listen to a guy whose username is "testicles", but i will say that it takes me a really long time to come during sex, and when i don't masturbate/fuck for a week, i can actually come within about 45 minutes of sex and go from there.

I think the issue that concerns us here is not the morality of porn, the issue is what porn does to our dicks in bed. If i don't watch porn, i appreciate the women i fuck a lot more. its next to impossible to even find a girl looking like some of these women, and then fucking them is a whole other story.

So while i do like to occasionally watch porn, i realize that it does have negative effects for me.

People who suffer from looking at porn are misguided.

Porn is for entertainment and frankly was never intended to be a sex "how-to" tutorial. Just because it depicts sex it doesn't mean it's meant to be a realistic portrayal.

Most anti-pornography arguments don't add up. I think most men who rape don't need pornography to trigger them into doing it. this also suggests that men lack self-control and cannot temper desire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... SF82AwSDiU

just watched this, considering to stop watching porn and see the effects

[quote="Coleslaw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... SF82AwSDiU

just watched this, considering to stop watching porn and see the effects[/quote]

Great idea man.

@Peiper:
Yeah, the real issue, at least the issue that is a meaningful(for men) reason to quit porn, is not the morality of it(heck some people have no morality) but it's the negative effect it has on you.

I know that a lot of people(and the "pionneers") who tried to quit porn had physical problems with it, they found normal women unnattractive so weren't satisfied in bed or they had eretile dysfunction.
While I didn't have any physical problems with my, i must now admit, heavy porn use, like ED or not being able to come when you want to, I realised it had a bad effect on me by being convinced by a "porn effect on users" article of psychologytoday.com(or a website like that). It was really informative, but what convinced were the the testimonials by men who had quit porn. Their overall happiness were better and their social anxiety was sometimes completely GONE.

It's disgusting, but I think it will help convince some of you, there's a guy on one of the quit porn sites that was "addicted" to femdom and scat. This was never my thing, even being a heavy porn user, femdom and scat never attracted me. But when he stopped ALL porn, his desires for that fetish gradually vanished. In the end, he ended up saying he couldnt believe he was turned on by something so disgusting and that now he was feeling healthier and like a lot of others reborn.

While I agree that some people's sex life are affected more than others(also depending on frequency of porn use), I really think that all men's best first step to improve his sexual "carreer" is to stop his moderate or heavy porn use.

I have to say that I think quitting porn is probably the easiest way to improve your sex life(or even entire life), and thus the best first step. It doesn't involve charging everyday and learning to master techniques that others in the PUA community don't even approve of, like the other tread saying funny and cocky is extremely overrated, or how ross jeffries tells everyone that all other PUA/Gurus are full of shit and that they don't work.

I'll finish with a testimony OF MY OWN. If you don't believe the benefits that some other guys got out of it then maybe some of you will believe me. I've only started to try quitting porn for 2 weeks now, and I can say I'm in the right direction. My first ban on porn was internet porn, and altough I had some relapses while going on google images, I haven't visited a real porn site for a week and a half, which is pretty out of the norm for me. About a week ago, I heard GSP say "Are you crazy in your head, men(sic)?" to nick diaz which I tought it would make a funny quebec meme, since it's a direct translation of an insult we use in french that seem stupid since crazy implies it's "in the head" and we use men/man like its the same word, like dude. Then I looked at "It's never lupus" House meme. From there I went to a site were it had a non-sexual photo of Olivia wilde and the relapse started......Google image olivia wilde.
Today, I went home and realized my mom wasn't there. First tought: Great I can have a fap-a-thon! Second tought: Damn, that's really how I was?
But enough with the how, now my results: At university, I started thinking about speaking with other people just to be sociable. Something I didnt think before, since I've started porn(at 16 yo, late bloomer I know) I have never made real new friends and my social circle didnt change.
Another change: In the bus I saw a really cute chick. I felt the urge to tell her how beautiful she was. Before I would have tought: "Nice" and gone back to bus daydreaming or maybe imagine a scene or two, but I never had urges to move and talk like that before. Even tough telling chicks they are beautiful is generally a bad thing in the PUA community it's a big improvement from not feeling any motivation to open to having a quite strong urge to go talk to her.

And this is only about 2 weeks after slacking porn a lot and 1 and a half week after visiting no real porn sites, and my "relapses" have been easier to manage: even if I still get urges to go watch porn, urges that are quite frustrating not to answer I must say, it's becoming easier to simply not do it, even google image and even TV porn which technically was "allowed", which I decided I could also live without.

My last word in this post is you can do this only if the decision comes from you.

Perhaps offthread but nevertheless: It's not a bad thing to say a girl that she's beautifull. Because you didn't watch porn anymore, the fake image of beauty disappears, and real life beauty kicks in. You get aroused/attracted with normal beauty again, so when you think a girl is beautiful and actually say that to her, she knows you MEAN it, and that you are honest to yourself. You said what was on your mind. They love that. Keep it up man, and if you really can't resist the porn anymore, try imagination. Your imagination isn't fake, and it doesn't make you aroused by the visual too much. But only imagine girls that you haven't seen naked.

Wallie

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